Are scientists always trustworthy? Should we believe everything they say?

[Silas]

Everybody calm down on the mutual insult-fest, please! (This is not aimed at you, duendy, your post just happens to be the last one on the list at the moment.)

me)))))Silas. if je memory serves me well. i am sure i've read good shit from you. bu the above is truly not!....i would very much recommend-URGENTLY-you go and research about Edward Bernays, and how he helped to create, wit help from his uncle SIGmund Freud's psychoanalytical theories, ways to SECRETLY manipulate the 'masses'' to--listen up--BUY PRODUCTS THEY DIDN'T NEED. yes? tis is a conspiracy yes it is.
and no, what we are in is NOT a democracy at all.

You have a great deal more faith in the human animal than I do, duendy. No, of course 99.99% of everything we have is stuff we never needed in the first place. But the desire for those things once they selling cycle begins, has nothing to do with deep psychological manipulation, just with common or garden greed and disregard for the long term consequences. Of which, as the owner of two colour TVs, a DVD player, satellite, three video game consoles, broadband internet, a mobile phone with a camera in it, and a car, I'm a prime exponent. I wasn't pressured into buying any of those things by advertising (except maybe the vg consoles), in fact I have a healthy disrespect for all advertising and of their patently obvious manipulative methods. But I like being entertained, and I'm lazy! Bernays' techniques may have woken businesses up to how to tap into humanity's latent desires, but those desires were there already, they weren't put there. And if you want proof that there isn't a global conspiracy to make us buy stuff we don't want, the answer is all the progress made in the stuff we buy. Sure, corporations learned how much they could sell to us by advertising it properly, but once the tiger was awoken, they've had to work their butts off for a hundred years or more to keep its insatiable mouth filled. If it was up to Big Business, we'd be paying $50,000 each for a Model T Ford and going home to watch black and white TV.

 

[Silas]

Happeh, kindly don't cite cartoons as putative "support" for your theory just so you can indulge in your vile homophobia.

 

[Happeh]

But can you actually explain why these symptoms happen? Or at least give some sort of an educated guess as to how masturbation causes them?

I told you I can. I already posted the educated guess a few times. I suppose it was buried under all the hating troll posts.

I communicate by having a friendly conversation and trying to awaken a person's imagination and thought processes. The scientific people here have no imagination. They can only handle cut and dried facts that are exactly square at 90 degree angles. They have no ability to change.

I will never satisfy a person's demands for "proof". What I will do is teach the person to see for themselves what they will accept as proof. I show you the symptoms. I tell you why they occur. Then I share the theory I created.

If the theory makes no sense to them, it doesn't matter. The symptoms are still right there in front of their face. If the person does not like my theory, they are free to try to create their own theory that makes sense to them or people like them.

My theory is meant to be a learning aid, a way for people to cross over from the western view of the body found in anatomy and medical books over to a view of the body that could be described as more in line with Asian thinking.

 

[Happeh]

Happeh, kindly don't cite cartoons as putative "support" for your theory just so you can indulge in your vile homophobia.

Hello Silas. Could you please introduce yourself and convince me why your opinion means anything to me before you indulge in your vile accusations?

By the way, are you a penis polisher?

 

[duendy]

Everybody calm down on the mutual insult-fest, please! (This is not aimed at you, duendy, your post just happens to be the last one on the list at the moment.)

You have a great deal more faith in the human animal than I do, duendy.

mew))))))no. we are all fukin DOOMED. i feel this espcially with some of the impenetrable minds here.

No, of course 99.99% of everything we have is stuff we never needed in the first place. But the desire for those things once they selling cycle begins, has nothing to do with deep psychological manipulation, just with common or garden greed and disregard for the long term consequences.

me))Silas. you simply CANNOT just wave away wit a few choice words the implication of SPIN. they do not spend billions on it for no reason....honest

Of which, as the owner of two colour TVs, a DVD player, satellite, three video game consoles, broadband internet, a mobile phone with a camera in it, and a car, I'm a prime exponent. I wasn't pressured into buying any of those things by advertising (except maybe the vg consoles), in fact I have a healthy disrespect for all advertising and of their patently obvious manipulative methods.

me))))))we are NOT just conscious beings. i hear your CONSCIOUS self-assured mind say that-----B U T!

But I like being entertained, and I'm lazy! Bernays' techniques may have woken businesses up to how to tap into humanity's latent desires, but those desires were there already, they weren't put there.

me))))of course DESIREis there already. actually this is comething i am very very interested in----but cant derail thread going into other areas. suffice to say. the very fact we have desires is hpow the spin-fuks manipulate it. using psychological techniques. people dont LIKE to feel manipulated and deny it even weh shwoen to them. more power to the fukin powermongers ey?

And if you want proof that there isn't a global conspiracy to make us buy stuff we don't want, the answer is all the progress made in the stuff we buy. Sure, corporations learned how much they could sell to us by advertising it properly, but once the tiger was awoken, they've had to work their butts off for a hundred years or more to keep its insatiable mouth filled. If it was up to Big Business, we'd be paying $50,000 each for a Model T Ford and going home to watch black and white TV.

no sorry. dont really understad your point there. fact is--our culture THRIVES on consumerism. it is industrial fascist i am pointing out and demands producers/workers, consumers, and ypung men and women/fodder for its wars

The Edward bernays nd co. story SHOULDreveal to people that, yes, conspiracy teory IS real. it DOES happen. we ARE being manipulated.
but you see. many dont want to even THHINK bout it. that's fear. and fear is central to the propaganderists agenda!!

 

[Ophiolite]

More in depth and intelligent response from Ophiolite.

I hope you don't mind waiting while I digest this. The complexity is truly difficult for me to comprehend.

Curiously enough the post you are commenting on, wherein I said Sigh.... was loaded with implicit and explicit meaning which a perceptive individual would have acknowledged at once. You appear to have stumbled upon this fact through the use of sarcasm, yet failed to recognise its reality.

Where on the West Coast?

 

[leopold]

i take it 'inderal' is ome form of pharma-shrink 'medication'?
so your assuming i am mentally ill

now why are you taking this tone with me duendy?
inderal is blood pressure medication.
it lowers your blood pressure and stabilizes your heart rate

the biggest problem i have with you duendy is your screwed up writing
and now is as good a time as any.
why is your typing so screwed up?
are you dyslexic? i'm serious here duendy
i am sure other people want to know as well as i.

 

[leopold]

I will never satisfy a person's demands for "proof". What I will do is teach the person to see for themselves what they will accept as proof. I show you the symptoms. I tell you why they occur. Then I share the theory I created.

and there you have it folks

happeh
if "your" theory can not be proved then it is meaningless okay?

this isn't your theory at all
face reading has been around since the 17th century
the myths of masturbation has been around longer

like i said earlier this subject belongs in the pseudo science forum

 

[Facial]

I will never satisfy a person's demands for "proof". What I will do is teach the person to see for themselves what they will accept as proof. I show you the symptoms. I tell you why they occur. Then I share the theory I created.

Sounds like religion to me. You have no capability to reason whatsoever. Infallible.

Asian thinking.

Traditional Asian thinking. The scientific method, on par with human reason, is used worldwide now.
You have traditional Asian medicine such as (insert random animal here)'s (random body part) to cure certain illnesses. We know it might not work, but in any case it is not because of the spiritual significance whatsoever. Same thing in Europe with the blood-letting, posies, and homeopathy.

Similarly, Happeh has no understanding of chemistry or biology.

Happeh, it is to be expected that you resort to superstitious thinking and cartoon-watching, but watch out because you will be slammed by every person worldwide whom you will preemptively assume as a 'scientist' from here on.
And in the end, you'll end up as a social outcast with a bunch of pedophile priests that you can finally associate with as 'scientists' aka fuck buddies. You need to seek help immediately.

 

[Facial]

Yeah. This should go into pseudoscience. Or yet better locked, b/c it's unfortunately blessed with Happehness (flames).

 

[Light]

Sounds like religion to me. You have no capability to reason whatsoever. Infallible.


Traditional Asian thinking. The scientific method, on par with human reason, is used worldwide now.
You have traditional Asian medicine such as (insert random animal here)'s (random body part) to cure certain illnesses. We know it might not work, but in any case it is not because of the spiritual significance whatsoever. Same thing in Europe with the blood-letting, posies, and homeopathy.

Similarly, Happeh has no understanding of chemistry or biology.

Happeh, it is to be expected that you resort to superstitious thinking and cartoon-watching, but watch out because you will be slammed by every person worldwide whom you will preemptively assume as a 'scientist' from here on.
And in the end, you'll end up as a social outcast with a bunch of pedophile priests that you can finally associate with as 'scientists' aka fuck buddies. You need to seek help immediately.

Not just in the end, Facial, he's a sociall outcast already. As clearly proven by the way he interacts with every single person here.

And one step beyond being just a fool, he actually expects that with no basis whatsoever he can get someone else to accept his foolishness.

(He and Buddha should form a club. They are SO similar.)

 

[Communist Hamster]

Except that Happeh believes masturbation causes homosexuality in males, and Buddha1 believes that all males are naturally homosexual.

"Happehness", hehe. That should go to urbandictionary.

 

[leopold]

i don't see how he can show his face around here
i would be embarassed to think that the posters thought of me the way they do him
apparently he just doesn't care about his reputation

 

[river-wind]

I will never satisfy a person's demands for "proof". What I will do is teach the person to see for themselves what they will accept as proof. I show you the symptoms. I tell you why they occur. Then I share the theory I created.
If the theory makes no sense to them, it doesn't matter. The symptoms are still right there in front of their face. If the person does not like my theory, they are free to try to create their own theory that makes sense to them or people like them.

Again, you are not following the scientific method. You have evidence, however, it was not gathered using the agreed upon method for gathering empirical evidence. You have not used agreed upon methods to show correlation between masturbation and your non-scientifically gathered evidence.

You have pictures, cartoons, and personal observations. This all falls under the heading of Anecdotal Evidence. Yes it is evidence. No, it is not useful in the scientific arena, because it does not follow the steps defined in the scientific method.
You have an idea as to the root of what has created the observables that you see, however, having stated your idea in the Hypothesis format “If you masterbate, you will go blind in one eye, and lose use of your limbs on one side”, you have been unable to support this If…Then structure with empirical evidence that shows causation. You have not created a scientific Theory with Heppah Theory, you have created a hypothesis which you have failed to back up. This would not require government funding, or a lab – it only requires that you follow the proper steps in gathering and analyzing your evidence for review by others.

This is in no way meant to be rude, this is a statement of my observations and your own admissions in the many threads you have posted in over the past two weeks. The scientific method is has specifically designed for many reasons. Before people will listen to your idea, you need to follow the guidelines set forth by the scientific method, so that we all understand the concepts and methodologies you used in coming to your conclusions.

The traditional Asian image of the human body still has a lot going for it, and IMO, should be studied. Acupuncture and acupressure treatments are used in the west today, and provide scientifically verifiable results. Insurance companies pay for such treatments.
It is not that we refuse to consider the body in any way other than western ways, it is that no scientific evidence to support your hypothesis has been provided in any of the threads you have posted in. You have posted anecdotal evidence which you claim shows symptoms; these photographs do not correlate to the causes of those symptoms.


I have a good understanding of chi, meridians, chakras, cycle of creation and destruction. There are numerous writings in Asian medicine and yogic practice that suggest that sexual release does detract from your body's energy flows, and I have personal experience to say that controlled chi generation and expansion is very much effected by it.
However, I have never run across any methodical research, in the east or the west, that supports the ideas that you have thus far proposed.

Your theory is nothing new, to be honest, puritan western religious leaders have pushed the same ideas for hundreds of years in an effort to curb masturbation, which they saw as sinful. There was no methodical evidence of the listed symptoms, they were simply using them as a scare tactic.
These ideas of masturbation-induced damage were disproved by methodical research long ago – if you have new information to support the re-immergence of them into the popular view of the human body, you need to provide either 1)scientific evidence using the scientific method OR 2)overwhelming evidence of another kind, along with profound reasoning as to why this evidence is valid, even though the scientific method was not used.

So far neither has been provided.


Side note: RE your Viagra/blindness link from the last thread that was locked:
Masterbation=sex
Viagra->sex
Viagra->blindness is rare cases
Sex->blindness

The problem here is that you have violated the rule of logic, and your result does not follow from your premise.
A=B B->C B->D C??D A??D

Because in both the second and the third step, B (cause) leads to C or D (result), and there is no reverse correlation in either (blindness does not lead to viagra, nor does sex lead to viagra), it cannot be said that sex leads to blindness. Both C & D, sex and blindness, are results of B, viagra. Niether are causes, and neither are linked to each other.
B=A
/ \
C-->D you have invented that bottom arrow, where none logically exists.

 

[Facial]

river-wind I suggest you simplify your boolean logic several orders of magnitude such that it can be understood by a two-year-old.

In other words : impossible. Happeh the big blue baby won't even address it.

Watch for his next post.

 

[Happeh]

Again, you are not following the scientific method. You have evidence, however, it was not gathered using the agreed upon method for gathering empirical evidence. You have not used agreed upon methods to show correlation between masturbation and your non-scientifically gathered evidence.

I might agree with that.

You have pictures, cartoons, and personal observations. This all falls under the heading of Anecdotal Evidence. Yes it is evidence. No, it is not useful in the scientific arena, because it does not follow the steps defined in the scientific method.
You have an idea as to the root of what has created the observables that you see, however, having stated your idea in the Hypothesis format “If you masterbate, you will go blind in one eye, and lose use of your limbs on one side”, you have been unable to support this If…Then structure with empirical evidence that shows causation. You have not created a scientific Theory with Heppah Theory, you have created a hypothesis which you have failed to back up.

Hypothesis, Theory, I could really care less. Scientist cry unless they have labels and fancy sounding names. So I named what I discoved Happeh Theory. If it is really a hypothesis by some definition or the other, I don't care.

The only important thing is that I know what I am talking about. And I am 100% correct.

This would not require government funding, or a lab – it only requires that you follow the proper steps in gathering and analyzing your evidence for review by others.

I have done this already.

This is in no way meant to be rude, this is a statement of my observations and your own admissions in the many threads you have posted in over the past two weeks. The scientific method is has specifically designed for many reasons. Before people will listen to your idea, you need to follow the guidelines set forth by the scientific method, so that we all understand the concepts and methodologies you used in coming to your conclusions..

My hope is to stop wasting time and cut to the chase. If I have to spend months meeting special conditions just to be allowed the chance to get people to listen to me, why should I bother? I can go somewhere else where people are more open minded and I will have an easier job and more success.

I understand what you are saying about scientific method. I am not rejecting it as junk or worthless. I am saying in this case there is no point. If people would stop lecturing me about rules and theories and laws, and simply speak to me as a person, this would all be finished in a week.

The traditional Asian image of the human body still has a lot going for it, and IMO, should be studied. Acupuncture and acupressure treatments are used in the west today, and provide scientifically verifiable results. Insurance companies pay for such treatments.

Of course. Insurance is about profit, not about health care. Insurance works by you paying for health care, but being too healthy to use it. If you go to acupuncture, it is common to go for maintenance treatment. This means a regular visit on a monthly basis possibly. Insurance companies do not make money if your payment is 60 dollars a month, and they pay 120 for you to go to a monthly acupuncturist visit.

It is not that we refuse to consider the body in any way other than western ways, it is that no scientific evidence to support your hypothesis has been provided in any of the threads you have posted in. You have posted anecdotal evidence which you claim shows symptoms; these photographs do not correlate to the causes of those symptoms..

They do if you are experienced.

Your theory is nothing new, to be honest, puritan western religious leaders have pushed the same ideas for hundreds of years in an effort to curb masturbation, which they saw as sinful. There was no methodical evidence of the listed symptoms, they were simply using them as a scare tactic.

Careful. You were sounding scientific until you said "scare tactic". The use of that phrase means you have closed your mind to the possiblity they were correct.

These ideas of masturbation-induced damage were disproved by methodical research long ago – if you have new information to support the re-immergence of them into the popular view of the human body, you need to provide either 1)scientific evidence using the scientific method OR 2)overwhelming evidence of another kind, along with profound reasoning as to why this evidence is valid, even though the scientific method was not used.

So far neither has been provided.

Sure it has. You have been here for 3 days. You did not see half of what I said or posted. Scientific method? I have heard it from James and Snakelord etc. As I said, you go get a government grant and do that.

If you want to learn, stop resisting and talk to me. Stop telling me about your rules that I am breaking and look with your own eyes at what I show you. Instead of telling me junk, ask me about things that do not make sense. Have some patience. Don't expect a sensible answer in 4 posts over a period of days.

B=A
/ \
C-->D you have invented that bottom arrow, where none logically exists.

I don't care. If you want to learn what I know, talk to me. If you want to catch me breaking rules that have no importance in the grand scheme of things, this will go nowhere. I don't want to play a game of tag.

 

[leopold]

go cry on somebody elses shoulder happeh
nobody here realy cares about your face reading
anybody that can read knows you are lying when you say masturbation cripples you
face it happeh, you lost the arguement 4 weeks ago
give it up already
on second thought keep it up, if enough people complain to james about you . . .

 

[Facial]

I don't care. If you want to learn what I know, talk to me. If you want to catch me breaking rules that have no importance in the grand scheme of things, this will go nowhere. I don't want to play a game of tag.

Wow. I'm surprised. Unexpectedly this goes in league with my indirect demand.

But as for the content:
A pathetic response, ducking the intellectual confrontations as usual.

But at least it goes as far to show that you really still read posts on your ignore list. I feel good, Happeh, I really do. But seek help.

 

[leopold]

I understand what you are saying about scientific method. I am not rejecting it as junk or worthless. I am saying in this case there is no point.

another gem from happeh

in other words
science is okay unless it disproves what i say, then there is no point in it.

 

[river-wind]

Hypothesis, Theory, I could really care less. Scientist cry unless they have labels and fancy sounding names. So I named what I discoved Happeh Theory. If it is really a hypothesis by some definition or the other, I don't care.

The only important thing is that I know what I am talking about. And I am 100% correct.

Maybe you are. But the scientific method was developed for the purposes of showing the how's and whys of the world in ways that everyone can see and verify. If special training is required to see your evidence; if the scientific method is not being followed in your research, then this topic doesn't belong in the science forums.
It may be that your idea has great merit, and should be considered. But unless you structure your arguement in the terms of science, then you should not expect those dealing in science to listen.

If your posts had not been made in scientifically-based forums, then the requirments to provide scientifically structured arguements would not exist. But because you premised your theory as being scientific, you applied to yourself all the rules therein.

How about we move to the theology or pseudoscience sections of the site, to discuss the idea in a more casual environment?

Sure it has. You have been here for 3 days. You did not see half of what I said or posted. Scientific method? I have heard it from James and Snakelord etc. As I said, you go get a government grant and do that.

don't forget that what you have posted is even now available to read. I'll been reading your threads since day one; I just didn't post until I felt that I understood where you were trying to go with your idea.