Any atheists here who were once believers?

[Robittybob1]

One last thing, wegs.

When you finally awake from a religious daze, it's perfectly normal to feel baffled by the preposterous things you once believed in. You'll start to take notice of what's in front of you, and then the multitude of people who are still afflicted with self-deception becomes even more baffling, if not frightening. Speaking out can be helpful for atheists and theists alike.

At one time, the term atheist itself was considered an insult. Today, an easy way to discredit an outspoken atheist is to couple it with other derogatory terms such as an atheist fundamentalist, atheist bigot, militant atheist, or another buzz word that is frequently shoved down my throat..."intolerance". The people who throw charges of intolerance are the ones who are the most notable exemplars of intolerance themselves.

Keep in mind that there is no single subject matter that should be excluded from scrutiny. Challenging a belief is not an act of intolerance. You're not violating anyone's rights. People disagree all the time. The "live and let" approach may sound good, but in excess it can be dangerous. Critical inquiry should be encouraged because critical thinking is in necessary in all aspects of life. Atheists are concerned and their concerns shouldn't be discouraged by branding them with religious intolerance. There are things that we should be tolerant of and many things that we should be intolerant of. Their misuse of religious freedom to cloak their own intolerance is something that comes to mind.

20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity

P.S. For your entertainment pleasure...

Authentic Mormon Temple Ceremony!

Christians Behaving Badly

That whole post must come so close to preaching it isn't even possible to separate it. You get away with it for you are preaching atheism but if I did the opposite I'd be banned again. So why is there favoritism around here?

 

[Robittybob1]

But you are preaching. This whole thread is an exercise in preaching. You've even set it to song, for crissakes.

Why it's allowed to stand, I couldn't say. But then, I can't really come up with any pattern for how the forum is moderated. Sometimes the rules apply, other times they don't; the rules apply to some people, but to others they don't.

We are going to find out how they judge these matters. So we know how to fight this battle.

 

[Sarkus]

We all have problems throughout our lives.

Just to humour me, what do you mean by "problem" in such a statement?

At one time the term atheist itself was considered an insult.

At one point, as I understand it, it was inconceivable that people did not believe in the existence of gods, and "atheist" was a derogatory term for those that, while believing in the existence of god (because everyone did), they turned their back on the gods and lived their life as though the gods were absent to them. In today's parlance these would be theists but also practical-atheists... i.e. they believe in the existence of gods but have shunned interaction with the gods.

 

[Balerion]

That whole post must come so close to preaching it isn't even possible to separate it. You get away with it for you are preaching atheism but if I did the opposite I'd be banned again. So why is there favoritism around here?

You have an entire thread dedicated to you preaching your fringe Christianity. I don't know what you're complaining about.

 

[Robittybob1]

But you are preaching. This whole thread is an exercise in preaching. You've even set it to song, for crissakes.

Why it's allowed to stand, I couldn't say. But then, I can't really come up with any pattern for how the forum is moderated. Sometimes the rules apply, other times they don't; the rules apply to some people, but to others they don't.

I had 2 days off so I read a lot of this thread and the Christian song thread, and my favorite was the Song thread of course. There could be a powerful testimony there, it would be like having a powerful argument that persuades. But it isn't preaching, not in my opinion.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Seattle,

Jan, OK, I've read it. You believe or "know" God exists because you feel it. Just as one doesn't usually have to think about "love" as a concept (even though one can) one just usually "feels" love without having to give it much conscious thought.

Really? Is that what you got from that?

Is that correct and if so why was it so hard to get that out of you?

No. You're conclusion is not correct.

Other's have described this same thing as "common sense" and "belief" as opposed to "logic" and "evidence".

Ooh!

I'm not trying to change your mind (or anyone else's). I just disagree that just because one "feels" something that it is real. Believers in Zeus "felt" it I'm sure. I "felt" Santa as a kid.

Hey that reminds me, it nearly Christmas.

Nevertheless, I'm not mocking your belief. I'm glad we at least now understand where you are coming from. That's all that anyone is trying to get out of this thread (I think).

Glad I could be of assistance.

He said he didn't need any more facts or logic because he has his faith.

Go Ray! Go Ray!...

When that's actually the case I like to hear that (honest statement) right up front. It's much more straightforward to just say my faith says this is true and nothing else is going to change my mind. Why go through all the arguments pretending to disagree with facts on a logical basis when the fact is that logic or facts (science) isn't going to change ones mind?

Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shine
Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shine
Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shiiiine
led it shine, led it shine, led it shine.....

Ultimately it does seem to come down to one group making their decisions basic on logic and evidence (science) and the other group basing theirs on faith, what they see as "common sense" and on what they "feel".

I guess you're right. What was I doing, tryin to think. I should know my place.
Thank you, you kind, knowledgable person. Oooooh! Dis lil lit o mine, I' mo led it shine.......

There's no need to make it look like one is basing these things on something other than what it is really being based on in my opinion. As they say, it is what it is.

....led it shine, led it shine, led it.......SHIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNE! Thank ya.

jan.

 

[Balerion]

Really? Is that what you got from that?

I'm pretty sure that's what everyone got from it. I mean, you say yourself that your insight into God's existence comes from scripture, yet you can't explain who decides what is or isn't scripture, or how these decisions are made. You haven't even attempted to make a case for their legitimacy, so one can only be left with the notion that your insight comes from a feeling. From emotion.

There's no other way to read it. You won't ever elaborate, so if we're off base, you only have yourself to blame.

No. You're conclusion is not correct.

Neither is your spelling of "your." You're is a contraction of "You Are." Keep that in mind, and you'll avoid that mistake next time. Yes, I understand this requires you taking on new ideas, but trust me, it's for the best.

 

[Robittybob1]

Seattle,



Really? Is that what you got from that?



No. You're conclusion is not correct.



Ooh!



Hey that reminds me, it nearly Christmas.



Glad I could be of assistance.



Go Ray! Go Ray!...



Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shine
Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shine
Dis lil lite o' mine
I' mo led it shiiiine
led it shine, led it shine, led it shine.....



I guess you're right. What was I doing, tryin to think. I should know my place.
Thank you, you kind, knowledgable person. Oooooh! Dis lil lit o mine, I' mo led it shine.......



....led it shine, led it shine, led it.......SHIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNE! Thank ya.

jan.

You guys should ease back on Jan for I think you have nearly broken him. Do you want him to become an atheist? Soon you will have no one left to pick on but me.

 

[wynn]

Sorry! I don't feel like playing.

Coward. Too late to go all noble and serious.


Again:
How do you decide what to count as scriptures and what not?

Why Srila Prabhupada's version of the Bhagavad-gita, why not Srila BV Narayana Maharaja's, or Gandhi's, or Srila Sridhar's Maharaja's, or Swami BV Tripuari's or yet some other version?

 

[wynn]

You guys should ease back on Jan for I think you have nearly broken him. Do you want him to become an atheist?

If he has the sort of divine insight that he claims to have, us questioning him a bit shouldn't be a problem.

 

[geeser]

So did you join the military?

No! That would mean killing somebody, because someone else said so.

These people were out to kill me. Was it going to be me first or them first?

In that instant you would only have the three options fight or flee or try to talk you way out of it..

It gets really desperate. Have you had death threats?

No! though I have worked in some of the most dangerous place in the world.

When the guys have guns and knives, and their cars are faster than yours, and there is a group of them and you feel alone, you struggle to maintain your moral stance.

No! yet admittedly it can be unnerving. This is why I said "We all have problems throughout our lives. our character comes from how we deal with them."

Just to humour me, what do you mean by "problem" in such a statement?

I was given two questions regarding a robbery and divorce, which have happened to me. if you read my latest reply to Rob above you will understand what I meant by problems. Be they life threatening or not they are still problems to be dealt with.

 

[Robittybob1]

If he has the sort of divine insight that he claims to have, us questioning him a bit shouldn't be a problem.

His watchtower is a house of cards. He has great insight, but I sense the cards are moving, buckling under the strain. There has been no let up for months on end. Picking picking the cards are moving.

 

[wynn]

He he.

I've known Jan for years. I don't think you're right.

 

[Seattle]

Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gln7zRFhOqg

I think this is about the only discussion on this subject I've seen that seems "honest". The participants weren't trying to score cheap debating points, the pastors were actually gracious all the way through even when the other "side" was making very effective comments. Everyone was civil and even friendly.

I liked it because the religious side allowed open discussion and really didn't become too defensive. Mainly it was because it was a discussion and not a debate and most importantly because the pastors actually showed the toleration that they frequently preach but seldom show.

There were no Jans, Robittybob1, Mazulu arguments going on there

 

[Robittybob1]

.. No! though I have worked in some of the most dangerous place in the world. .....Be they life threatening or not they are still problems to be dealt with.

Where was this dangerous place? What happened?

 

[Jan Ardena]

I'm pretty sure that's what everyone got from it. I mean, you say yourself that your insight into God's existence comes from scripture, yet you can't explain who decides what is or isn't scripture, or how these decisions are made. You haven't even attempted to make a case for their legitimacy, so one can only be left with the notion that your insight comes from a feeling. From emotion.

There's no other way to read it. You won't ever elaborate, so if we're off base, you only have yourself to blame.



Neither is your spelling of "your." You're is a contraction of "You Are." Keep that in mind, and you'll avoid that mistake next time. Yes, I understand this requires you taking on new ideas, but trust me, it's for the best.

Here is the misunderstood point:

The theist position is simple, part of us (observer) is not constucted of material nature, it is different. We realize this, and seek to understand, that part of us which is different.

Then come the big philosophical question: Who am I? Where did I come from? What happens when I die?

What other purpose do these questions serve?

So to believe in God, is accept the position that you are not the body, otherwise there is no concept of God, other than a Santa Clause type figure, or an old grey-bearded man sitting in the sky.

If I say, ''I don't believe in God'', I'd be lying. And if I never, ever said ''I believe in God'', I would still believe in God.
To me, it is the logical conclusion.

Sure, but it's your concept of God that you believe in, the one you've formed through what you understand.

Why would there be a need to form a concept of God?
I understand that connection to be God, not that I had some understanding, then decided to create a being to fit.
That's not how theist's think.

Skilled musicians know how to evoke feeling and emotions through the mixing notes together. They understand how it's done. Not that they understand what it is they want to achieve, then create a concept that is different to the norm.

Practice doesn't necessarily give you that ability, either you have it or you don't.

Not everyone may be able to achieve it, but that does not negate the matter of them having the concept of what it is. One can not even be a musician without the concept of what an instrument is, what music is etc. So your analogy remains woeful.

Concepts don't matter. You just feel it. That is how and why it maifests. The feeling is instaneous, and complete, not constructed and thought about. Musicians who adopt it as a concept, are not as influential as those that don't. They are merely copying, just like you copied a belief in God.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

You guys should ease back on Jan for I think you have nearly bro]ken him. Do you want him to become an atheist? Soon you will have no one left to pick on but me.

Rob, you're not getting it.

jan.

 

[wynn]

Few - and maybe even no - things can defeat a man who possesses great faith in himself.

Which is why, for all practical intents and purposes, the first step toward believing in God, is to become a cocky self-assured bastard.
Weaklings with humanist sensibilities never get far.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Enlighten him.

 

[Robittybob1]

Rob, you're not getting it.

jan.

So true! http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...d-discussion&p=3117740&viewfull=1#post3117740