Any atheists here who were once believers?

[wegs]

In the different exchanges I've had with Jan, and in his exchanges here with others, I believe he has an "unshakeable faith," as they say. I've posted something similar earlier in the thread. He really believes what he believes, and while I don't agree with his beliefs, I admire his tenacity in conducting himself here both candidly, and with class.

 

[Robittybob1]

Few - and maybe even no - things can defeat a man who possesses great faith in himself.

Which is why, for all practical intents and purposes, the first step toward believing in God, is to become a cocky self-assured bastard.
Weaklings with humanist sensibilities never get far.

Who are you picking on now? Am I a "cocky self-assured bastard"?

 

[Robittybob1]

In the different exchanges I've had with Jan, and in his exchanges here with others, I believe he has an "unshakeable faith," as they say. I've posted something similar earlier in the thread. He really believes what he believes, and while I don't agree with his beliefs, I admire his tenacity in conducting himself here both candidly, and with class.

He has shown this for a long time, but then if it is unshakeable, at the very least the tower of strength has swayed a little.

 

[Seattle]

Few - and maybe even no - things can defeat a man who possesses great faith in himself.

Which is why, for all practical intents and purposes, the first step toward believing in God, is to become a cocky self-assured bastard.
Weaklings with humanist sensibilities never get far.

I think you meant "Sensible Earthlings never get far"

 

[wegs]

He has shown this for a long time, but then if it is unshakeable, at the very least the tower of strength has swayed a little.

You have a different approach to these discussions than Jan, and neither is right or wrong, just different. Maybe you see Jan expressing himself differently than you do, and feel it signifies weakness.

If you believe Scripture, then you have certainly noted the variety of personalities who were Jesus' Apostles.
Not all were as intense as Paul.

 

[Robittybob1]

You have a different approach to these discussions than Jan, and neither is right or wrong, just different. Maybe you see Jan expressing himself differently than you do, and feel it signifies weakness.

If you believe Scripture, then you have certainly noted the variety of personalities who were Jesus' Apostles.
Not all were as intense as Paul.

But don't you agree that Jan has to get down from his tall tower and get back down to level ground? Genesis? Truth? He takes it all too literal; even if you were still Christian you'd want him to change. That is why I don't step in to save him completely.

 

[Jan Ardena]

God exists for me the same as anything else I have no knowledge of: I can not say God does or does not exist, but my actions are not predicated on a belief in God.

I know you don't believe in God, and I am aware of your reason.
I know that you say you are open to the idea of God's existence should evidence present itself.
Evidence has not presented itself, and therefore God cannot exist (until such time), as you sit there reading this post.

Why can't you just admit that simple fact? :shrug:

jan.

 

[geeser]

Where was this dangerous place? What happened?

Africa and the middle east, etc. It is an on going thing. It is part of my work. It is something I can face everyday.

 

[Jan Ardena]

In the different exchanges I've had with Jan, and in his exchanges here with others, I believe he has an "unshakeable faith," as they say. I've posted something similar earlier in the thread. He really believes what he believes, and while I don't agree with his beliefs, I admire his tenacity in conducting himself here both candidly, and with class.

Wegs, what is it that I have said, makes you think I have ''unshakeable faith''?

jan.

 

[wegs]

But don't you agree that Jan has to get down from his tall tower and get back down to level ground? Genesis? Truth? He takes it all too literal; even if you were still Christian you'd want him to change. That is why I don't step in to save him completely.

Taking the Bible literally, is what is required to claiming one is a follower of Christianity.
That's why I'm no longer Christian.

 

[Billy T]

Africa and the middle east, etc. It is an on going thing. It is part of my work. It is something I can face everyday.
& from another post:
"I have worked in some of the most dangerous place in the world."

Care to tell more details - give any insights you have gained. At least tell if employed by IGO, government or oil company etc.

 

[wegs]

Wegs, what is it that I have said, makes you think I have ''unshakeable faith''?

jan.

It isn't what you've "said,"as much as how you act towards others opposing you that demonstrates how you value your faith.

(Plus, I've never seen you waver in your viewpoint. You are always consistently steadfast.)

I may disagree with you Jan, but you really believe what you believe.

 

[Robittybob1]

Taking the Bible literally, is what is required to claiming one is a follower of Christianity.
That's why I'm no longer Christian.

But to begin with that is why I wrote to you for you seemed to be the only Christian that was able to reject aspects of the Bible but also "seemed" to remain a Christian. But later you told me you were an atheist. So maybe there are Bible rejecting Christian Atheists. Some have said I'm an atheist. But that seems so wrong, for I have had a vision of the truth. Can that occur without God being true?

 

[wegs]

But to begin with that is why I wrote to you for you seemed to be the only Christian that was able to reject aspects of the Bible but also "seemed" remain a Christian. But later you told me you were an atheist. So maybe there are Bible rejecting Christian Atheists. Some have said I'm an atheist.

I had been living like that for a while, though. It became tiresome to want to believe in something that I had followed for so long, but then realized that's all it really amounted to -- a "want."

Are you searching for something beyond your current spiritual beliefs? It is ok to explore other views and beliefs if you are not satisfied.

 

[Robittybob1]

I had been living like that for a while, though. It became tiresome to want to believe in something that I had followed for so long, but then realized that's all it really amounted to -- a "want."

Are you searching for something beyond your current spiritual beliefs? It is ok to explore other views and beliefs if you are not satisfied.

For sure, this search for truth has only just begun. But we are caught between raising kids and paying their/our way, we can't devote 24/7 to it, but together there would be a better chance of progress than just you or I on our own. I think we were still looking for the same thing.
There is a great bunch of searchers here on Sciforums. This debate beats anything written elsewhere.

 

[wegs]

For sure, this search for truth has only just begun. But we are caught between raising kids and paying their/our way, we can't devote 24/7 to it, but together there would be a better chance of progress than just you or I on our own. I think we were still looking for the same thing.
There is a great bunch of searchers here on Sciforums. This debate beats anything written elsewhere.

Yeah, it is called life, I suppose.
I'm content with finally leaving religion behind though, and comfortable in the concept of agnosticism.
My daughter still reads the Bible interestingly, on a regular basis. Asks me questions about it, so there is a balance one must strike with not seeming dogmatic in our disbeliefs, as much as in our beliefs.

 

[Robittybob1]

Yeah, it is called life, I suppose.
I'm content with finally leaving religion behind though, and comfortable in the concept of agnosticism.
My daughter still reads the Bible interestingly, on a regular basis. Asks me questions about it, so there is a balance one must strike with not seeming dogmatic in our disbeliefs, as much as in our beliefs.

I found a Bible yesterday too. I find with the internet there isn't the same need to have a hard copy. (Sorry, I feel reluctant to ask questions regarding your family, it seems to cause complaints to the moderators but just whatever you can share.) I also found some poems and prayers (and answers) but some of it quite personal so It is going to be challenging to share it on the forum. Put it this way it will be different than what you normally see. But I'm going to check with James R first.

 

[Balerion]

Here is the misunderstood point:

You'll have to explain what's misunderstood about it. You're telling Sarkus that your belief in God is a "feeling," and Seattle's summation reflects this.

What are we getting wrong?

Also, just for clarification, is this claim that you "realize" you aren't wholly material also based on feeling, or do you claim to have some evidence to support this?

 

[Balerion]

In the different exchanges I've had with Jan, and in his exchanges here with others, I believe he has an "unshakeable faith," as they say. I've posted something similar earlier in the thread. He really believes what he believes, and while I don't agree with his beliefs, I admire his tenacity in conducting himself here both candidly, and with class.

I agree that his faith is unshakable (at least in the face of logic and scientific evidence), but I see nothing candid or classy about his interactions here. He belittles people who don't agree with him, ducks questions that are too difficult, and wastes other people's time with thoughtless responses to long, thoughtful posts.

 

[Robittybob1]

I agree that his faith is unshakable (at least in the face of logic and scientific evidence), but I see nothing candid or classy about his interactions here. He belittles people who don't agree with him, ducks questions that are too difficult, and wastes other people's time with thoughtless responses to long, thoughtful posts.

Do you where the rules on "Preaching" are discussed? Please could you inform me of their whereabouts?
I found them via a Google search
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...-and-preaching&p=596965&viewfull=1#post596965

Still not that easy to understand.