Any atheists here who were once believers?

[wegs]

Jan, I don't think I've heard you elaborate on a personal level, about your love for God quite like this. Like I said the other day, you have an unshakeable faith, it seems. If I had no knowledge or opinion of God at all, your words here could convince me to get to know him.

 

[Robittybob1]

.....

What's the point in testing to see if God answers prayers? How's that going to benefit you or society?
How are you going to ''know'' if God does or doesn't answer prayers? What kind of tests can you perform that gives this result? If the test is an statistical approximation, how does that prove that God doesn't answer prayers?

When a person sincerely prays to God, their position is one of surrender, they surrender to the Divine Will, He knows what is best for me. I put my self in your hands. ....
jan.

Do you pray in such a way that you can see a prayer being answered? Look what wegs wanted yesterday, she wanted to know whether her atheist friend was now in Heaven or Hell? Now that is a mighty gutsy request to God if I did ever hear one, for what was the answer going to be to that question.

Would you dare to answer it on God's behalf? I won't. So the only possible answer is God or The Lord Jesus in Our case, that he answers us directly.

Now you seem to disapprove of that, is that right?

That is the difference between you and me. I want a full on, hard-hitting relationship with my Lord Jesus. I just can't accept this "surrender to the Divine Will, He knows what is best for me. I put my self in your hands" stuff. I want an answer. Wegs wants an answer, and why can't we get one?

 

[Mazulu]

I like this.
Mazulu...you taking notes? ^^
Seriously, nicely said, Billy.

Social and personal realities are just mental maps within the neurons of our brain. I suppose that a spirit or soul also has a copy of those same maps. But generally, I'm looking at the physics of reality, and phenomena that is beyond today's accepted physics.

I guess I believe that a spirit or a Holy spirit can flow through the biochemistry of the brain and leave impressions on it. By impressions, I mean the proteins and the mechanisms involved with memories.

 

[wegs]

Do you pray in such a way that you can see a prayer being answered? Look what wegs wanted yesterday, she wanted to know whether her atheist friend was now in Heaven or Hell? Now that is a mighty gutsy request to God if I did ever hear one, for what was the answer going to be to that question.

Would you dare to answer it on God's behalf? I won't. So the only possible answer is God or The Lord Jesus in Our case, that he answers us directly.

Now you seem to disapprove of that, is that right?

That is the difference between you and me. I want a full on, hard-hitting relationship with my Lord Jesus. I just can't accept this "surrender to the Divine Will, He knows what is best for me. I put my self in your hands" stuff. I want an answer. Wegs wants an answer, and why can't we get one?

I don't think anyone knows really where my friend is, now. With any sense of certainty.

May I ask you -- what does your faith mean to you? You and I have had our disagreements and your "way" is very out there sometimes, (like way out there lol) ...but I would like to know, why are you a believer? Don't quote the bible. Don't talk about dreams. From your heart...I'd like to know why you believe what you believe.

 

[dumbest man on earth]

I don't think you or baleron have any education.

Mazulu, I believe the first 10-letters of your statement quoted ^^above^^...you seem awfully proud of that inability!

Please read the first ten letters of : LEARN TO COMMUNICATE!!!

Mazulu, learn to communicate? I was agreeing to what you stated by saying that I believe you when you say...

I don't think...

Mazulu, I was patting you on the back for being honest and so proud of the fact that you, Mazulu, "don't think", and that you are also man enough to brag of that inability!

Mazulu, you sure do not take compliments very well!

 

[Billy T]

... I'm looking at the physics of reality, and phenomena that is beyond today's accepted physics. ...

Physics is of the physical objective reality. That does not mean there will never be modifications of what physics now thinks the natural laws are, but it does mean that if there are changes, new additions or modifications they will be based on physical, measurable evidence, not derived from Personal realities with zero objective evidence, especially as there are so many completely mutually contradictory personal realities to chose from.

For example the more common personal reality is heaven does not exist, nor does god, only cycles of re-incarnation lives.* etc. and zero evidence for rejecting that POV in preference for a Christian POV. (or conversely).

SUMMARY: You are NOT looking for what you claim to be (advances in physics, etc.)- you are looking for support for your version of a personal reality. - The one most likely inculcated into your brain before you could think critically. At least be honest with yourself.

* Hundreds of millions or more likely, hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of individual spirits, one for each living animal, but no great spirit or "god."

 

[Robittybob1]

I don't think anyone knows really where my friend is, now. With any sense of certainty.

May I ask you -- what does your faith mean to you? You and I have had our disagreements and your "way" is very out there sometimes, (like way out there lol) ...but I would like to know, why are you a believer? Don't quote the bible. Don't talk about dreams. From your heart...I'd like to know why you believe what you believe.

But someone does know where your friend is wegs for my understanding is that the Lord Jesus is the Judge of the living and the dead, so the judge has made a decision, and that decision is a real important one to know whether it was in or out.

Why do I believe? Without referring to the dreams and revelations, that will be a bit like trying to tell you but not using words.
Have you watched "Anikamoo" video? That is the reason I believe, it is the love for my family, having 3 albino children and seeing what they missed out on, I wanted the healing powers of the Lord Jesus to return with vengeance. I can't sit around and wait. I needed it urgently so I explored so deeply, and it became real to me. The Lord is real to me. It is no longer a matter of believing but knowing.
There is no question too hard for the Lord. It is a matter of someone getting the answer and I don't know if you prepared yourself for the answer.
Can you say a prayer - I'll say it for you - ...... be open to the word of the Lord. Be alert for the word of the Lord. and listen to the word of the Lord. Amen.

Because the answer could be yes or no and the explanation might not gel with you, but accept what is spoken, and let us know, when it happens, for the word was "it is done". I'm sure that means it will happen.

I believe because I know.

 

[wegs]

But someone does know where your friend is wegs for my understanding is that the Lord Jesus is the Judge of the living and the dead, so the judge has made a decision, and that decision is a real important one to know whether it was in or out.

Why do I believe? Without referring to the dreams and revelations, that will be a bit like trying to tell you but not using words.
Have you watched "Anikamoo" video? That is the reason I believe, it is the love for my family, having 3 albino children and seeing what they missed out on, I wanted the healing powers of the Lord Jesus to return with vengeance. I can't sit around and wait. I needed it urgently so I explored so deeply, and it became real to me. The Lord is real to me. It is no longer a matter of believing but knowing.
There is no question too hard for the Lord. It is a matter of someone getting the answer and I don't know if you prepared yourself for the answer.
Can you say a prayer - I'll say it for you - ...... be open to the word of the Lord. Be alert for the word of the Lord. and listen to the word of the Lord. Amen.

Because the answer could be yes or no and the explanation might not gel with you, but accept what is spoken, and let us know, when it happens, for the word was "it is done". I'm sure that means it will happen.

I believe because I know.

You believe because you know. Hmmm. Interesting.
I appreciate you sharing with us here. It will be weird if I discover that you were right about God, and I was wrong.

 

[Robittybob1]

You believe because you know. Hmmm. Interesting.
I appreciate you sharing with us here. It will be weird if I discover that you were right about God, and I was wrong.

Do we have differences? Keep an eye on the BCS thread for I post there too. I can keep track of what I say over there.
Poem thread is good too.

 

[spidergoat]

rev bob, just because you are asking questions and getting answers, does that mean the answers are from the Lord? I do the same thing in certain states of consciousness, but I blame my brain, or some subconscious part of it.

 

[Mazulu]

Physics is of the physical objective reality. That does not mean there will never be modifications of what physics now thinks the natural laws are, but it does mean that if there are changes, new additions or modifications they will be based on physical, measurable evidence, not derived from Personal realities with zero objective evidence, especially as there are so many completely mutually contradictory personal realities to chose from.

For example the more common personal reality is heaven does not exist, nor does god, only cycles of re-incarnation lives.* etc. and zero evidence for rejecting that POV in preference for a Christian POV. (or conversely).

SUMMARY: You are NOT looking for what you claim to be (advances in physics, etc.)- you are looking for support for your version of a personal reality. - The one most likely inculcated into your brain before you could think critically. At least be honest with yourself.

* Hundreds of millions or more likely, hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of individual spirits, one for each living animal, but no great spirit or "god."

I don't know how a soul would be able to give you "physical measurable evidence". A soul has a spiritual existence; a soul is invisible and undetectable, like so many other things that science is aware of.

 

[Mazulu]

Mazulu, I believe the first 10-letters of your statement quoted ^^above^^...you seem awfully proud of that inability!



Mazulu, learn to communicate? I was agreeing to what you stated by saying that I believe you when you say...

Mazulu, I was patting you on the back for being honest and so proud of the fact that you, Mazulu, "don't think", and that you are also man enough to brag of that inability!

Mazulu, you sure do not take compliments very well!

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Robittybob1]

rev bob, just because you are asking questions and getting answers, does that mean the answers are from the Lord? I do the same thing in certain states of consciousness, but I blame my brain, or some subconscious part of it.

Does it seem far above what you could know naturally?
You might have to pluck up courage and give us an example of what happens to you.
Somehow our brains can sense "spirit" we sense gravity, heat, birds pick up on magnetic fields, light, so why not spirit?
With that case of me picking up what someone else was dreaming about, shows how it operates.
Remember my dream was a voice saying "I have given David a dream of marrying your daughter, but remember it is only a dream"
So dreams are induced by spirit - definitely.
Can that be explained in any other way?

 

[dumbest man on earth]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Mazulu, if you "don't think", "don't know" and have "no idea(s)"...what force compels you to Post on these forums?

Mazulu, should I expect you to reply that the compelling force "...is invisible and undetectable, like so many other things that science is aware of"?!

 

[Seattle]

Seattle,

Creationism being taught in a science class is a provocation.
However that is not what I mean when I say ''...constantly expressing something I didn't believe in, it would make me wonder if my un-belief was genuine.''

If one constantly expresses being against slavery should that make one wonder if they are really for slavery? Of course not. I find it's generally a good idea in life to take people at face value.

There is a consensus that religion is a negative force in today's society, that it should be relegated to a lower status (some want it abolished). That the scriptures were written either to explain things that were not properly understood, or by scrupulous people in a bid to control the masses. There is a conensous that there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist, or if God does exist He is an evil tyrant who let's people suffer.
With this kind of mindset, how can you be open to the possibility that God is merciful. That maybe it is due to our ignorance of the bigger picture that prevents us from seeing this.

And what exactly, is a ''religious mindset''?
Trying to increase ones understanding of God is not necessarily a ''religious mindset'' pastime.
Again I ask; With such an unwillingness to take the pursuit of understand God, seriously, at least to the point where if one is still atheist, one has a good reason and explanation as to why he is so, how can you be open-minded to scriptures.

I find it a bit arrogant (in general) for someone with a belief to think that everyone else should justify not having that belief. People will sometimes ask "Why aren't you religious?". No one asks "Why don't you play golf and enjoy it as I do?". There is no label "agolfist" applied to someone who doesn't share a hobby that you happen to enjoy.

Maybe Hitler really was merciful and I just don't understand the bigger picture but it would be awfully arrogant for a fan of Hitler to expect that of anyone.

I've read parts of the Bible and I've had (long ago) a comparative religions class in collage. That's more than many religious people have done. There are a few polls that show that non-believers have more knowledge of religion than religious people.

I've also heard it said that people go into the seminary as religious zealots and "everyone" comes out an atheist. There's a bit of humor to that of course but the least religious people are generally those who have studied "scripture" the most. There was a cardinal who "reportedly" said that all the the bishops and priests in his domain confessed in secret to being atheists.


I'm not trying to state this as fact as I can't back it up but I'm sure there is a lot of truth to it.

That's not what I mean by ''knowledge''. The world's round, so what? Now we know that, does it increase our awareness of our understanding of ourselves. What is our ''selves''? Are we the body and mind, or are we more than that. We can observe our bodies and mind so who is observing? What happens when we die, is it just nothingness? What is nothingness? No space, no time, no energy/matter? How could such a scenario exist? Can we even imagine it? These questions are the search for knowledge, IMO.

You ask "how could such a scenario exist...can we even imagine it?" How hard is it to "imagine" that when you die you are dead and your body decays and that your life is over. It's anything else that is hard to imagine. The only reason someone might imagine something different is that they want it to be different. I live in Seattle. I want it to be sunny tomorrow but that's hard to imagine

What's the point in testing to see if God answers prayers? How's that going to benefit you or society?
How are you going to ''know'' if God does or doesn't answer prayers? What kind of tests can you perform that gives this result? If the test is an statistical approximation, how does that prove that God doesn't answer prayers?

When a person sincerely prays to God, their position is one of surrender, they surrender to the Divine Will, He knows what is best for me. I put my self in your hands.

Setting up such a test wouldn't be hard and it would prove that God doesn't answer prayers if no more people were alive 1 year later in the prayed for group as compared to the control group.

This test is only meaningful to someone who believes that God answers prayers. If no more people are alive in the prayed for group than in the control group then God doesn't answer prayers.

 

[Robittybob1]

.....
Setting up such a test wouldn't be hard and it would prove that God doesn't answer prayers if no more people were alive 1 year later in the prayed for group as compared to the control group.

This test is only meaningful to someone who believes that God answers prayers. If no more people are alive in the prayed for group than in the control group then God doesn't answer prayers.

Well next time there is a famine we could split all the starving people into two groups and get the churches to pray for the survival of one group and the peaceful demise of the other group (each group selected randomly so there is no bias) and see if there is a statistical difference in survival rate between the groups after 1 year of starvation.

I think a test like that would prick the consciences of the atheists and they would secretively send food aid to the non-prayed for group, just to confound the results.

The bloody atheists will always resist the workings of the Lord!

 

[Bells]

Well next time there is a famine we could split all the starving people into two groups and get the churches to pray for the survival of one group and the peaceful demise of the other group (each group selected randomly so there is no bias) and see if there is a statistical difference in survival rate between the groups after 1 year of starvation.

I think a test like that would prick the consciences of the atheists and they would secretively send food aid to the non-prayed for group, just to confound the results.

The bloody atheists will always resist the workings of the Lord!

That's because atheists wouldn't depend on God to tell them to do something and would instead send what food they could, regardless. Because you know, that's what good people do.

 

[Sarkus]

I believe because I know.

Most would see it as: You claim to know because you believe.

 

[Robittybob1]

Most would see it as: You claim to know because you believe.

So somehow with no evidence or research you claim to know what "the most" would believe about me. You are the epitome of those who believe so they know, but if you had done the research you would know so you would believe.

 

[Robittybob1]

That's because atheists wouldn't depend on God to tell them to do something and would instead send what food they could, regardless. Because you know, that's what good people do.

Would they have a bias against certain religious groups? I found it hard to be sympathetic toward the Pakistani victims of their recent floods, because of the treatment they were giving the US soldiers fighting in Afghanistan.
Can you feel equally generous to all?