Any atheists here who were once believers?

[Bells]

Yes I did, it was all in the original thread on TradeMe NZ, they had printed and given it to her to read.

I don't believe you or that she felt that your belief that spirits and god speak to you and tell you what to do, to the point where you are contacting the families of victims of crimes like some clairvoyant, and she thinks that is normal.

We are Christians so I don't see the problem there.

People who made such comparisons have turned out to be psychotic maniacs. David Koresh comes to mind.

No It was just the kids were missing and no one knew at that stage of the dreams (places , how it happened, by who)

Is that what you tell yourself?

It is more than deja vu, but similar.

I don't believe you, sorry.

So that is a question. Yes there is. (private)

Okay...

Stop right there.

There is no prophecy Robbitybob1. You want there to be one, and you may want it desperately. But there isn't one.

So stop and move on.

Whatever one wants done. Sometimes it is best if you do it yourself. Have you found that?

I usually find that with folding my laundry.

Not trying to force people to convert to my belief system and certainly not in the notion that I believe it is a prophecy that someone has to convert to my way of thinking and belief.

Respect is a two way thing.

Certainly. And when someone tells you to stop and back off, you stop and back off. When someone tells you no, you respect it. And when someone tells you that they don't believe as you do and wants to you stop pushing, you respect their choices and back off.

I used to say which part of "NO" do I not understand? The first letter and the last letter. But I've got used to "Stop" lately.

So why don't you adhere to it?

I'm not sure what you are saying there sorry.

What I am saying is that you are so caught up in your dreams and voices in your head that you have failed to notice that people want you to stop and to respect their choices and stop pushing.

Well it is difficult when you can see they have the case completely wrong. It like "trick or treat" at Halloween, one takes a punt on which door to knock on.

No Robbitybob1. Victims of crimes and their loved ones are not like trick or treat at Halloween.

Sometimes you get it right sometimes you don't.

And this time, you are very very wrong.

 

[Trooper]

Did you see the South Park clip in the jokes section, Trooper?

I did, thanks! :bravo:

Edit...I watched that clip with "Stewart" lol

That’s who he reminds me of.

How do you separate "woo" from science? How do you separate "woo" from religion?

How do we separate the woo from the woo in you? :bugeye:

 

[Robittybob1]

I don't believe you or that she felt that your belief that spirits and god speak to you and tell you what to do, to the point where you are contacting the families of victims of crimes like some clairvoyant, and she thinks that is normal.



People who made such comparisons have turned out to be psychotic maniacs. David Koresh comes to mind.



Is that what you tell yourself?


I don't believe you, sorry.


Okay...

Stop right there.

There is no prophecy Robbitybob1. You want there to be one, and you may want it desperately. But there isn't one.

So stop and move on.



I usually find that with folding my laundry.

Not trying to force people to convert to my belief system and certainly not in the notion that I believe it is a prophecy that someone has to convert to my way of thinking and belief.


Certainly. And when someone tells you to stop and back off, you stop and back off. When someone tells you no, you respect it. And when someone tells you that they don't believe as you do and wants to you stop pushing, you respect their choices and back off.


So why don't you adhere to it?


What I am saying is that you are so caught up in your dreams and voices in your head that you have failed to notice that people want you to stop and to respect their choices and stop pushing.


No Robbitybob1. Victims of crimes and their loved ones are not like trick or treat at Halloween.


And this time, you are very very wrong.

Well when I say something I know it is true, but that doesn't mean you have to believe me, but it is disappointing to read that you think I lied to you (that's how I took it) for I haven't in the slightest.
OK I made mistakes, we all do.
On the religion section I don't reckon it is right that I should have to "stop" explaining how religion works for me.

Thanks Bells, it is all taken on board.

Regards
Robert

 

[Robittybob1]

I did, thanks! :bravo:



That’s who he reminds of.

How do we separate the woo from the woo in you? :bugeye:

I hope you are not stalking me! The post feels very directed at me. Is this a pick Rob thread is it?

 

[Seattle]

Just because someone doesn't believe that you (Robert) can predict the future doesn't mean that they are saying or calling your a liar. Get real

What you are claiming in extra-ordinary. As they say, "extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence".

 

[Bells]

Well when I say something I know it is true, but that doesn't mean you have to believe me, but it is disappointing to read that you think I lied to you (that's how I took it) for I haven't in the slightest.
OK I made mistakes, we all do.
On the religion section I don't reckon it is right that I should have to "stop" explaining how religion works for me.

Thanks Bells, it is all taken on board.

Regards
Robert

I don't think you're lying Robbitybob1. I think you perhaps do hear voices. And that is why I think you should seek professional help.

How your religion works for you is one thing. Demanding that others convert to your way of thinking, that is a whole new kettle of fish. You seem to believe it is a prophecy, especially where some are concerned. When they tell you no, you keep pushing. That is not how religion should ever work.

Faith, religion, belief.. they are all private. If someone tells you to back off, you don't refuse and try and say it is a prophecy that you not back off. Doesn't work that way. We all have choices Robbitybob1. We all make our own choices for ourselves. You need to respect the choices of others that when they tell you to stop pushing your beliefs on them.

You follow your path and yours alone. No one has any obligation to be on that same path with you, no matter what you believe. Your religion works for you. It doesn't have to work for everyone else and it is certainly not your place to demand or hound people into believing if they made the choice to not believe in anything.

 

[Robittybob1]

Just because someone doesn't believe that you (Robert) can predict the future doesn't mean that they are saying or calling your a liar. Get real

What you are claiming in extra-ordinary. As they say, "extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence".

In my reply to Bells I was talking about 1 or 2 specific sentences where she disbelieves something I said happened. On the whole I have nothing but admiration for Bells.
As you say "extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence" and that is what we will be working toward.

 

[Robittybob1]

I don't think you're lying Robbitybob1. I think you perhaps do hear voices. And that is why I think you should seek professional help.

How your religion works for you is one thing. Demanding that others convert to your way of thinking, that is a whole new kettle of fish. You seem to believe it is a prophecy, especially where some are concerned. When they tell you no, you keep pushing. That is not how religion should ever work.

Faith, religion, belief.. they are all private. If someone tells you to back off, you don't refuse and try and say it is a prophecy that you not back off. Doesn't work that way. We all have choices Robbitybob1. We all make our own choices for ourselves. You need to respect the choices of others that when they tell you to stop pushing your beliefs on them.

You follow your path and yours alone. No one has any obligation to be on that same path with you, no matter what you believe. Your religion works for you. It doesn't have to work for everyone else and it is certainly not your place to demand or hound people into believing if they made the choice to not believe in anything.

Bells please,
When was the last time I had voices in my head? (1990)
I have dreams with voices, that only, not other forms, have you understood that, right? (Dreams - Most weeks, but that is not considered abnormal is it?).
I don't recollect making any demands, but maybe suggestions but demands no. If you can show me where I demanded something please do.
I'm not "pushing" either as far as I know, but arguments are arguments. You win some, you lose some.

 

[Robittybob1]

....
How do we separate the woo from the woo in you? :bugeye:

The only part of the definition of woo (other than the romantic one) that fits is "3. It involves the supernatural and paranormal (not necessarily)
And that is exactly the stuff I am talking about, for if it is provable should there ever be an atheist?
They would all revert back to being believers if that was possible. I'm not saying it impossible but we are going to give it a try.

 

[Robittybob1]

I don't use "clairvoyant abilities" either. If you went to a clairvoyant, do they say, "come back in a month and see if I have had a dream about it"? No they don't.
To me they are God inspired dreams and I have little to no control over them.

Can an atheist be a clairvoyant? Can an atheist have a God inspired dream and just consider it a weird dream?

Was an atheist going to answer this question for me please. Do atheists have weird dreams, even ones with voices in them?
Do atheist ever consult clairvoyants?

 

[Robittybob1]

Precisely, see my addendum to my previous post. Without further corroborating evidence it can all be taken with a pinch of salt. If your stories contain anything that would require us to suspend believe, then they can be discarded with malice.

@Geeser - what do you mean by "malice" as in "they can be discarded with malice"?

 

[Robittybob1]

No, that would be a prostitute.

You know the difference then.

 

[Robittybob1]

Yes, I understand you believe you have been endowed with special powers, but you haven't, you're just another guy. And, until you take the time to understand what I've been explaining, you'll continue to delude yourself.

I personally have no special powers for these dreams are gifted to me. All I do is take them and make use of them if I can.
I have a belief that they would be available to everyone (or many anyway), not just to me.
How to do it was a matter of prayer possibly, I'm not sure, what initiated it, but it may have been prayer.

 

[Great Old One]

Was an atheist going to answer this question for me please. Do atheists have weird dreams, even ones with voices in them?
Do atheist ever consult clairvoyants?

Hi Rob,

I'll lay a couple on you. Here's a dream I had as a young person which has stuck with me.

1) I am sitting in anza (crossed legs, 'Indian style'). I am in a dark stone chamber. Satan sits across the chamber in front of me, staring at me. Others are dancing in a circle making revelry, courting Satan's attention.

But he just looks at me. I am not screwing around like the others, just looking back.

A haunting dream which has stuck with me for years.

2) A second haunting dream was Satan walking on the beach. I was at the beach with my family at the time. In the dream I am asleep (odd I know) in our house by the shore. Satan walks down the beach and pauses in front of the house where we are staying. He looks at the house.

I woke up in both instances in absolute dread. With a malevolently dark, overpowering awareness. Gasping for breath.

More recently I spontaneously began lucid dreaming. Nothing super interesting, but dreaming in a real and aware nature...able to fly, rising out of my body like an out of body experience. Very strange.

 

[Robittybob1]

Perhaps, but I was really just trying to understand if there was any limits to what you believe is Biblical truth. I.e. all science is to be forgotten when god acts.

Are you familiar with the POV the good Bishop Berkeley stated about 300 years ago? He believed all is illusion provided to his soul /spirit, by the greater spirit. I.e. no matter exist - certainly no Big Bang problem with that POV. The greater spirit would be powerless to work miracles, if the illusions he made did not normally follow the "natural laws" as violation of them is what miracles are.

I'm like you I have wondered how this could ever happen. So it does seem to be mysterious and explainable. Like the NT miracles - unexplainable.

My solution is to see if we can do them again. Then we might see how they were done.

 

[Balerion]

I personally have no special powers for these dreams are gifted to me. All I do is take them and make use of them if I can.
I have a belief that they would be available to everyone (or many anyway), not just to me.
How to do it was a matter of prayer possibly, I'm not sure, what initiated it, but it may have been prayer.

But your dreams don't actually predict anything. By your own admission, there's been no actionable prevention measures possible. The dreams are vague. And you're a crank, which means that nobody will ever take you seriously.

In typical crazy person fashion, you've decided that you're special. Well, you're not.

 

[Robittybob1]

Hi Rob,

I'll lay a couple on you. Here's a dream I had as a young person which has stuck with me.

1) I am sitting in anza (crossed legs, 'Indian style'). I am in a dark stone chamber. Satan sits across the chamber in front of me, staring at me. Others are dancing in a circle making revelry, courting Satan's attention.

But he just looks at me. I am not screwing around like the others, just looking back.

A haunting dream which has stuck with me for years.

2) A second haunting dream was Satan walking on the beach. I was at the beach with my family at the time. In the dream I am asleep (odd I know) in our house by the shore. Satan walks down the beach and pauses in front of the house where we are staying. He looks at the house.

I woke up in both instances in absolute dread. With a malevolently dark, overpowering awareness. Gasping for breath.

I think your fear reaction would be correct, for a face off with Satan, however you imagined him, could be quite something astonishing and fearful.
But it sounds like you resisted temptation, and won.

I can't say I have ever had a dream like those ones. So what culture religion did you have at the time?

If they were the more powerful dreams what are your everyday dreams like? Do you have precognition (deja vu) type experiences?
To keep it on topic were you a believer or an atheist at the time?

 

[Great Old One]

I think your fear reaction would be correct, for a face off with Satan, however you imagined him, could be quite something astonishing and fearful.
But it sounds like you resisted temptation, and won.

I can't say I have ever had a dream like those ones. So what culture religion did you have at the time?

If they were the more powerful dreams what are your everyday dreams like? Do you have precognition (deja vu) type experiences?
To keep it on topic were you a believer or an atheist at the time?

I don't have any interpretation of those dreams. Just that they were completely terrifying.

At the time I was Christian, Presbyterian.

I have deja vu experiences all the time. Quite often, and again...odd. Just an indescribable strange sensation that a series of events has happened before.

As of late my dreams are often lucid...false awakenings. I don't remember too many mundane dreams, but I'm sure that must happen all the time I only don't recall them.

 

[Robittybob1]

But your dreams don't actually predict anything. By your own admission, there's been no actionable prevention measures possible. The dreams are vague. And you're a crank, which means that nobody will ever take you seriously.

In typical crazy person fashion, you've decided that you're special. Well, you're not.

I get the feeling you are jealous of me. For even when I say I have no special powers you turn it around and say that I'm special immediately after saying I'm no more special than anyone.
You are jealous that the Lord gifts these premonitions to me.
You are so jealous that you run to the moderators day after day complaining about me. You are envious and jealous, your actions confirm it.

 

[Bells]

Bells please,
When was the last time I had voices in my head? (1990)

And you still believe those voices were right..

I have dreams with voices, that only, not other forms, have you understood that, right? (Dreams - Most weeks, but that is not considered abnormal is it?).

It's abnormal when you actually listen to those voices and believe what it says and expect others to believe you and take you and your voices seriously.

I don't recollect making any demands, but maybe suggestions but demands no. If you can show me where I demanded something please do.

You were asked to back off repeatedly. You respond to that request with, in effect, 'I will once the prophet is fulfilled'. And you get right back to pushing and demanding..

I'm not "pushing" either as far as I know, but arguments are arguments. You win some, you lose some.

And you are losing all of them here.

So again, back off, stop preaching and stop expecting people to believe your claims or to follow or believe as you do.

There is no prophecy, no matter how much you might wish it true.