Any atheists here who were once believers?

[wegs]

Maybe I'm not wegs, but how do you know this is the truth.
What is your critea?

jan.

Every day that I get to experience life...in its joy, sorrow, beauty...that is truth, to me. The universe is truth. The love I have for others, is truth. Humanity is truth.

And that's enough for me. I chose to follow a god and follow him through a particular faith because I was taught that this life isn't enough.
Well, it's more than enough, for me.

If a god exists...could the here and now be proof of that? It's a "miracle" that human beings survived this long...could that be proof enough of a god and his plan? I simply don't know anymore than you.

From a spiritual perspective, I don't know if a god exists, or "another life," but I will find out when I die, I guess. Just like you, Jan.

 

[(Q)]

If only it was that simple.

It is that simple, just stop fighting everyone and telling them what they should believe.

 

[wegs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Jan, if I had to label what ‘truth’ is to me, it would be that. ^^

I’ve come to this view on my own…so all in all, it just seems to ‘fit’ with how I see things.

I wanted to note Jan, you have always been classy and respectful during our exchanges, and I appreciate it. I also respect your viewpoints, even though I don’t share them.

 

[Robittybob1]

It is that simple, just stop fighting everyone and telling them what they should believe.

OK just remind me where I told anyone what they should believe.
In the Christian Song thread I have chronicled some of my life experiences, but in there I didn't think I have been telling people what to believe but rather what I believe, and songs are about what others believe.

 

[wegs]

OK just remind me where I told anyone what they should believe.
In the Christian Song thread I have chronicled some of my life experiences, but in there I didn't think I have been telling people what to believe but rather what I believe, and songs are about what others believe.

One of the things about Christianity that is very pronounced is it teaches to evangelize. It does. That said, I know where you're coming from, but like take the thread you started in the members section...you claim Jesus is the Judge. But Muslims don't believe that nor Jews, nor many religious people. So...to me, if you believe what you believe, that's cool but many don't and suggesting that the world will be judged by Jesus someday, is radically presumptuous. Kwim?

 

[lightgigantic]

It is that simple, just stop fighting everyone and telling them what they should believe.

yeah, just like you do on sciforums ...

:scratchin:

 

[lightgigantic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Jan, if I had to label what ‘truth’ is to me, it would be that. ^^

I’ve come to this view on my own…so all in all, it just seems to ‘fit’ with how I see things.

I wanted to note Jan, you have always been classy and respectful during our exchanges, and I appreciate it. I also respect your viewpoints, even though I don’t share them.

I don't think you understand his question.

He is asking how do you know the truth about him (namely that he has no more access to the truth of things than you).

 

[(Q)]

yeah, just like you do on sciforums ...

:scratchin:

Why are you lying? Oh yes, that's what you do here.

 

[wegs]

I don't think you understand his question.

He is asking how do you know the truth about him (namely that he has no more access to the truth of things than you).

That is truth. No one knows if there is a god, and if one exists...what he is, etc.
How could anyone really know this?

 

[Robittybob1]

One of the things about Christianity that is very pronounced is it teaches to evangelize. It does. That said, I know where you're coming from, but like take the thread you started in the members section...you claim Jesus is the Judge. But Muslims don't believe that nor Jews, nor many religious people. So...to me, if you believe what you believe, that's cool but many don't and suggesting that the world will be judged by Jesus someday, is radically presumptuous. Kwim?

Yet it was the solution to not having to try and evangelize the World for under that scheme all religions would follow their own beliefs but accept as a further development of their own faith that Jesus was the Lord of Lords and the Judge. Did they have a judge in place otherwise?

Whether it is presumptuous or not it has been the words written in the NT for the last 2,000 years so I don't know why it is so Earth shattering.
It definitely was a new way of reading what had been written, and I'm keen to see what wynn says for it was wynn who asked the questions in the first place. Wynn is the theologian whereas I was just a solo dad trying to make ends meet.
That Kenyan has a similar view on this too from listening to his interview.

 

[quinnsong]

Religion has run out of justifications. Thanks to the telescope and the microscope, it no longer offers an explanation of anything important. Where once it used to be able, by its total command of a worldview, to prevent the emergence of rivals, it can now only impede and retard—or try to turn back—the measurable advances that we have made.

Sometimes, true, it will artfully concede them. But this is to offer itself the choice between irrelevance and obstruction, impotence or outright reaction, and, given this choice, it is programmed to select the worse of the two.

Meanwhile, confronted with undreamed-of vistas inside our own evolving cortex, in the farthest reaches of the known universe, and in proteins and acids which constitute our nature, religion offers either annihilation in the name of god, or else the false promise that if we take a knife to our foreskins, or pray in the right direction, or ingest pieces of wafer, we shall be “saved.”

―God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens

Great Book, I highly recommend it!

 

[wegs]

@ lightgigantic;

I completely understand and respect the idea of ‘faith.’ But faith isn’t objective truth.
That is why there are so many variations of religions…no one can agree I guess, on what ‘truth is.’
I don’t need to know, because I can’t ever really know. If God exists, why would he need religion to ‘promote’ him, and most religions disagree with one another? So, is it ok to say that religious people who have an opinion of God, are better than people who are not religious, and have no opinion?

Religious people don’t know the certainty of truth, any more than non-religious.

 

[Robittybob1]

That is truth. No one knows if there is a god, and if one exists...what he is, etc.
How could anyone really know this?

But that was how close I came that Easter in 1990, where I was shown a book full of truth but to get to read it I had to find someone to believe the first bit of New stuff, and still no one does, even though I really thought you might, since you expressed an interest at one time of rewriting the NT.
It would be good for you too to know something new.

 

[wegs]

But that was how close I came that Easter in 1990, where I was shown a book full of truth but to get to read it I had to find someone to believe the first bit of New stuff, and still no one does, even though I really thought you might, since you expressed an interest at one time of rewriting the NT.
It would be good for you too to know something new.

True, but in my own journey with it all..I realized that if I need to cherry pick those parts of the Bible that I agree with and "add on" or "rewrite" other parts of it, in essence I would be denouncing Christianity.
The entire book ...OT and NT ...work together. The OT was a foreshadowing of the NT, so if one is Christian and doesn't believe in the bible as a holy literal book...why bother with it?

I stuck with it despite my doubts for as long as I did due to fear. I had a lot of joy in Christianity but it was always mixed with fear. But, now...I have no fear. I don't believe in heaven and hell...and if there exists a hell...where a divine being sends you for eternity to rot...I don't want to follow that "kind" of god anyway.

It all comes back to man capitalizing on the concept of God.

No one knows and there is beauty in not pretending to know, anymore. (for me)

 

[quinnsong]

wegs,
If all atheists were like you, then there wouldn't be a problem. The reality of it is, you and your boyfriend are the only atheists who are not hostile towards religion.

How many atheists do you know? I have no problem if someone wishes to edify their own spirit. What is the main purpose of any Organized Religion?

 

[arauca]

We become a family . If I go to an other country were I don't know anybody and I have a need , I will go to a church of the same denomination for healp or information , they may treat me as a brother and I have confidence in them . I will not go an atheist , because he is a self oriented individual.

 

[Magical Realist]

The reality of it is, you and your boyfriend are the only atheists who are not hostile towards religion.

And yet who is it that regards atheists as servants of Satan, deserving only to burn in hell for all eternity? Who has traditionally burned unbelievers at the stake for the crime of heresy? Who looks forward to the soon destruction of planet earth and the killing of the majority of unbelievers to prepare the way for the new global theocracy? When it comes to hostility against non-believers, the religious have pretty much gotten that market cornered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics

 

[dumbest man on earth]

From a spiritual perspective, I don't know if a god exists, or "another life," but I will find out when I die, I guess. Just like you, Jan.

wegs, from my, as yet to be completed sentence of "Doing Time on Planet Earth", there are a few lessons that I believe that I have truly actually learned, and now fervently know - two of which are enumerated below :

1.) - A whole lifetime could be spent Debating/Discussing/Arguing the issues of Politics or Religion, without actually resolving the issues involved or producing any lasting tangible results from those Debates/Discussions/Arguments.

2.) - No single Person, of either Gender, male or female, can or will ever be able to honestly claim to have figured out the full Mindset/Behavior/Workings of any single Person of the opposite Gender, female or male - let alone either Gender of the same or opposite, as a whole or "across the board", so to speak.

wegs, honestly, to me, dmoe, it seems that you are in more of a "period of transition" of your beliefs, than to be actually firmly and fully "entrenched" in either one.

Again, to me, dmoe, it also seems that very few people ever actually do become "100% Fully Entrenched" in not just either of those Major Beliefs - but also minor beliefs/views/opinions. It would seem to me, dmoe, that most everyone always continue to "Hold On To" at least a minimal amount of reservations/skepticisms/maybes/possibilities, in relation to their personal beliefs/views/opinions.

wegs, I cannot in any way completely disagree with all or even any of your statements in your Posts. For more than the most part they are rational and reasonable expressions of wholesome and healthy views/opinions/outlooks, that I must firmly agree with!

wegs, I, dmoe, and must express that it is just my,solely individual, and completely amateurish opinion, that you "SEEM" to be experiencing a "period of transition".

Hang in there, wegs, the relaxed feeling of complete "Peace of Mind" or "Personal Fulfillment" or whatever the true and complete philosophical/emotional term is to describe...enlightenment?...is not, can not and should not be expected or demanded to be "Quick" in occurrence, nor even eventually happening at all!

Lifetimes can be entirely "spent" on the search or journey to such...enlightenment?...with only partial completion or enjoyment of such an..."Enlightened State?"...!

wegs, chin up, eyes open, positive mental attitude, always smile, always enjoy the "true great things" in life, maintain you bearing and the rewards you truly deserve and endeavor to earn will eventually amass themselves in your life and the lives of those who also honestly persevere in said endeavors!

 

[(Q)]

We become a family . If I go to an other country were I don't know anybody and I have a need , I will go to a church of the same denomination for healp or information , they may treat me as a brother and I have confidence in them .

So the church in that other country will help you out with travel issues, where are the best hotels, finding your luggage, that sort of help? Information, such as where are the best tourist attractions, what subway to use, good restaurants?

It's false reasoning. There's little more a church can offer you that the rest of that particular society couldn't. That church is not going to ask you if you believe everything they say before offering whatever help they can.

I will not go an atheist , because he is a self oriented individual.

Atheists would simply use the services they require when visiting another country. They too may enter a church and ask for whatever help and information they can offer, as well, and probably get the same service as you. In fact, you yourself will most likely be dealing with atheists as you deal with your travel issues, finding lost luggage, etc., and they will help you willingly, despite the fact you say you wouldn't go to an atheist.

Are we to believe you actually ask every single person you need help or information if they are an atheist or not before accepting their help?

 

[Magical Realist]

If you yourself are unable to exemplify the effectiveness of ideas and approaches that you promote and praise, it is far from redundant to point this out.

Your statements would carry more credibility if you actually had experience in what you were mindlessly defending. As it is you speak out of ignorance, belittling the experiences of others but offering none of your own. Why don't you talk about your OWN experience with religion instead of hiding behind abstractions and hurling insults for once? Noone here wants to listen to someone defending a system they don't even believe in themselves.