Animal cruelty

Communist Hamster:

There we are, comparing chickens to humans again. It doesn't work like that.

Obviously not for you. I guess you're one of those people who believe that, just because you are human, that makes human beings special, which gives them the right to treat all other creatures as nothing more than objects for their own pleasure.

It is a pity there's no ethically valid argument for your view.

James R, do you support the animal rights protestors who dug up that womans grave, because her children bred guinea pigs for animal testing?

No.

Do you support those who terrorised the workers who tried to build an animal testing facility?

Depends.

Anyway, stick to the point. How is this relevant to whether or not eating meat is cruel or justifiable?

Why are you trying to divert attention?
 
CH:
James R, do you support the animal rights protestors who dug up that womans grave, because her children bred guinea pigs for animal testing?
Why is it that whenever someone mentions that they support animal rights, people immediately ask if they support terrorism committed by a tiny minority of extremists?

Oh Communist Hamster, you are communist. Do you support the Stalin regime, who murdered millions?
 
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alpha
i never went to jen acres like i said i would
but i also didn't want to leave you hanging
here is something i found online which corroberates my description of jen acres

As the eggs are laid, they roll away from the hens and onto a conveyor-belt system that carries them to the front of the laying house. The eggs are then transferred to a main belting system that carries them from the houses to the egg-processing line, where they are organized into rows, 12-eggs-wide, by an orienter and conveyor system
http://www.packagingdigest.com/articles/200510/30.php

the above fits well with what i know of jen acres
it also seems to prove that the hens do not "free roam"
 
LOL... packagingdigest.com... there are websites for just about everything.

Interesting that they don't have any pictures of the hens though.
 
James R said:
With regard to this particular debate, ask yourself: if the meat-eaters here really think eating meat is necessary and/or good, why do they feel they must defend their practices? Why so defensive and irrational in their arguments?
This line grated with me.

A little over a year ago I'd stopped eating meat because I'd started to feel disgusted with myself for eating animals. Having suffered from anaemia for a long time (having had many blood transfusions in the past), I increased my iron and vitamin supplements and was happy with my decision and my bloodcount was within a normal range for me. Then I found out that I was pregnant and was advised again to increase the iron tablets to the point where I was not only on iron tablets, but also on iron water as well, since my red blood count had again dropped dangerously low (due to complications that arose early on in my pregnancy). I was told to again increase my iron supplement intake, along with vitamin C and calcium because of the fear that my health and that of my child's would be at risk. By this point, I found myself consuming green vegetables and vitamin C rich foods and iron to such an extent that I had started to feel ill.

The risk of another blood transfusion was too great and I was told that I had to go back to eating red meat in particular. Iron injections were rejected as they'd failed in the past and the chance of permanent scarring was too great. I had been suffering from other complications during my pregnancy at this time and tests revealed that my low blood count was a contributing factor. So I re-started to introduce meat products back in my diet during my pregnancy. However I found that I could not even tolerate beef in any way, shape or form. Lamb was barely tolerable, but at least it did not make me throw up like beef did. My red blood count did not increase but at least stabilised and I was told to keep taking the iron supplements and keep eating iron rich foods everyday, especially red meat. I was given two blood transfusions in the week after the birth, but they did not take.

After I gave birth, I thought that all would be fine and I could go back to not eating meat again and just stick to the supplements and slowly build my red blood count back up. However that did not take and I then discovered that breastfeeding took so much out of me as well that a balanced diet including meat and iron supplements was the only way that would not result in another hospital stay. I was then told by my specialist (herself a vegetarian) that if I wanted to remain a vegetarian, I'd have to stop breastfeeding as I barely had enough for myself, let alone my son and within 3 weeks after his birth, he'd re-lost the weight he'd managed to put on after we left the hospital.

So as of today, I'm still a meat eater and I am still taking iron supplements and having blood tests twice a week, and my child is now thriving better on my milk than he did before. So now at the present time, I'm finally not falling asleep at all hours of the day because of anaemia and I'm able to breath freely as the anaemia had gotten so bad at one point that breathing had become painful. For me it was not an irrational decision but the only rational decision I had left to make and the result has been that I am now getting better. Many vegetarians will say that I took the easy way out and maybe I did. But I'm feeling better at the moment and my son is thriving and that is all that matters and that tells me that I made the right decision in re-introducing meat into my diet. I found that after the birth, I was able to tolerate beef and I now eat a balanced diet that includes meat and fish. Vegetarianism is not for everyone and I discovered that the choice I made to become a vegetarian was the wrong one for my health at that time. You may think me defensive, but I'm just letting you know that my choice to not eat meat was not the right one for me and I suffered for it as the supplements just did not work.
 
Bells,

Your case would be unusual, I think.

If it comes to a choice of "eat meat or die", then I think eating meat is ok. Ethics is always a balancing game, of one set of interests against another.

I have recently been reading a book on animal rights which poses the following scenario:

"You arrive home to find your house on fire. Inside is your (only) child and your pet dog. Which one do you save?"

There's little doubt that almost everybody would save their child. And I don't think even the most strident vegetarian would have a problem with that. Nobody is saying animals must have equal rights to human beings in all situations. The argument for vegetarianism, as with other ethical arguments, involves the situation most people find themselves in: i.e. they can live a perfectly healthy life without having to kill animals.

As an aside, consider the following alternative scenarios:

1. Your house is burning. Inside is your pet dog, and (for whatever reason) a child who is a total stranger to you. Which do you save?
2. Your house is burning. Inside is your child, and 5 other children who are strangers to you. You can only save either your own child, or all 5 of the other children, but not both. Which do you save?
 
mountainhare said:
How many chickens exist in the world today? They are far from becoming extinct, aren't they? So I wouldn't call them 'failures'. They are adept at surviving in their current environment.
Precisely. There's a lot more where that came from, so why not kill a few hundred and eat 'em?
 
mountainhare said:
How many chickens exist in the world today? They are far from becoming extinct, aren't they?

Hapsburg said:
Precisely. There's a lot more where that came from, so why not kill a few hundred and eat 'em?

There are 6 billion human beings in the world. Why not kill a few hundred and eat them?
 
James R said:
There are 6 billion human beings in the world. Why not kill a few hundred and eat them?
Because people meat is probably not as tasty, and is probably not as easily digested as chicken and other nonhuman meats.
Then again, I wouldn't know, I'm just speculating. Why don't you go and find out, eh? :D
 
Hapsburg:
Because people meat is probably not as tasty, and is probably not as easily digested as chicken and other nonhuman meats.
Cannibals say otherwise. In fact, many cannibals have testified that humans taste a lot like pork.
 
Chicken tastes better than pork, even if pork is better in sandwiches. Also it is a oot easier to ctah diseases of pork than chicken, so I would imagine that cathcing disease of human meat would be very common.
 
Hapsburg said:
Because people meat is probably not as tasty, and is probably not as easily digested as chicken and other nonhuman meats.
Then again, I wouldn't know, I'm just speculating. Why don't you go and find out, eh? :D

Apparently it tastes like pork.
 
In Bucharest Romania they have stray dogs roaming freely all over the streets. Its been that way for 20 years. 20 years ago the people moved from the subs to better housing communities and left their pets behind. Today in Bucharest there are dogs on every corner of the street. Recently a Japanese businessman was muged to death by a stray dog and now the authorities are obviously claling on the E.U to help solve this problem.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060204/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_romania_dogs

How should this problem be solved in the most humane way?
 
mmmmmmmm meat, did this thread not start out with something about animal cruelty
 
Hapsburg:

Because people meat is probably not as tasty, and is probably not as easily digested as chicken and other nonhuman meats.

I don't think either of those things is true.

Communist Hamster:

Chicken tastes better than pork, even if pork is better in sandwiches. Also it is a oot easier to ctah diseases of pork than chicken, so I would imagine that cathcing disease of human meat would be very common.

Yes. And it's easier to catch diseases from chicken or pork than from vegetables, too. So, by that argument, we should all be vegetarian.
 
devils_reject said:
How should this problem be solved in the most humane way?
i would suggest a bounty for each one
when one is brought in it would be tagged then neutered
that way they could be released and in say 7 to 10 years the problem will be none existant
 
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