Animal cruelty

razz said:
Recently I was witness to an act of severe animal cruelty, i came home and found my neigbour beating his dog to death with a shovel, i jumped the fence and went nutts.

I stopped him hitting the dog,
The dog had apparently been digging holes under the fence and barking all the time and ruining his sleep.
He raved on about the dog just being a dumb mutt etc and that I should get a life and mind my own business.

The dog (a Boxer Cross) lay on the ground, completely masacred yet still alive, my neigbour finaly told me to mind my own business and went to hit the animal again, so I stopped him and a fight broke out after he tried to club me with his shovel aswell.

Now I'm no small guy and I kicked the living Poop outta this idiot then as carefully as I could picked the dog up and took it to the vetenarian clinic up the road,

The dog was immediately put down, due to its injuries etc,
I paid for the injection and the vets time out of my own pocket.

When I returned home I found my neigbour chatting with police,
Can you believe it, he was attempting to have me charged with assult and tresspass.

A long story short..... he got away with only a warning for his cruelty after committing this disgusting crime because the police couldnt be bothered following it all up properly with the vet and other witnesses.
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I want to know how many of you feel this idiot was within his rights to treat his dog how he did?

If this had been a persons life, how serious would it have been treated?

what values do you place on an animals life?

what rights does an animal have ?
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I see and hear people every day treating animals so cruely that it almost makes me cry.

Animals feel every emotion you and i feel, they have all our senses and in the case of my own dog, i know he needs lots of love and cuddles, id never beat him or starve him or abuse him in anyway.

I see my dog as my child, he loves me nomatter what.

So it annoys me to think people can have attitudes like,
"it doesnt matter, its just a dumb animal."


Id like to see major penalties applied to offenders caught abusing animals.
Id like to see these pathetic fines that most countries apply to these subhuman monsters abolished and real punishments like those imposed on people who commit crimes against human

Id like to hear what others think about my opinions.
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i used to be a hero, (seriously)


but then if you look at it anouther way, the dog could have attacked him then he beat it to death witht he shovel, then you kicked his ass (from behind or the side),


maybe he was beating it because he was an asshole, and taking his personal anger out on the dog.

anyways im not judging what you did atall, i couldent.


about "animal cruelty" in general arent we animals, so human on human violence would be animal cruelty, also animals are cruel to other animals, elephants are bullies when they are in a bad mood, i have seen them beat on hippos and throw stuff at bamboons, chase rhino, stampeed a pride of lions, just because its bigger and it can do what it wants, like we can do what we want to animals and get away with it,


its so human to judge isnt it, we say beating a dog is bad, or killing a certain animal is wrong, but what about all the cows, chickens, sheep etc that die in there millions each year across the globe for our lazy mass consumer population of human kind,?

we pick and choose what is ethical because we can, i have come to a point where im actually starting to not be concerned anymore with what dies and what is done to what, or who,


i look at nature and it is wonderful but it is not safe, it is danger at its core, its nice but the rose has thorns, humans and certain anmals mass together to become safe, and humans decide what is good and bad and ethical/moral, right and wrong, it dosent really matter, nature is survival of the fittest, we have become so safe from nature through our minds/brains. we have forgot what it is to really be out in real nature without all of out "shit" with us. there is no right and wrong out there, its just you gotta live and thats all, a buffalo dosent care if he stomps a lioncub to death, niether do the other animal species who whitnessed it, (except the cubs family maybe) it just happens, because it can,



in england you would not see cats and dogs skinned on show in london ready for eating, in china you would, what is wrong to you someone else might not give a damn about, we are all just food for something else remember, you have to "not" be the food, and try to "get" the food,


we all know survival when it comes down to instinct, but some/most people seem to have forggoten the simple law of nature, you cannot blaim anyone for this it just is how it is.


humans are good at surviving, we are the best of the best, elite even. but how good would the average modern human fair if he was without assistance of tech and modern equipment, because it can happen to anybody, bieng stranded is possible and it could be life or death if you cant "handle" the pressure of real life out in nature.


what is cruel? causing pain to an animal for no apparent reason? maybe just because we can.


peace.
 
I live 15 minutes drive away from the nearest public transport. It takes me 1.5 hours to get to work by car, and would take much longer by public transport.

I do not drive a gas-guzzling monster of a car, so I try to minimize my environmental impact in that regard. I also share as many trips as possible with my partner, and also try to minimize the amount of travel I do.

When I'm not using my car, I mostly walk from place to place.
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Well that's good. That's good.

I don't know how you can say cars are "worse than meat-eating". I think you're comparing apples and oranges.
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I can't stand metaphors, especially on forums. And when they're cliches. It makes us look like we're playing at being clever.
But anyway, they're still fruit, aren't they?

Are you trying to argue that because the environment and animal cruelty are problems, we can only try to tackle one of the two problems, and not both?

Please explain. Are two wrongs somehow better than one wrong?
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They're the same wrong. You can bitch at me for killing some dumbcows, and I'll admit, yeah, I'm killing some dumb cows. So what?

But tell me James R, have you ever seen a strip mine? The damage to my wilderness for your... habit, it's far uglier than heartland cattle or freerange beef in the Outback. Nothing worse than frontier destroyed so you can ride about, protected from the elements.
 
My armpits smell unbelievably good. There is no finer scent than that of 'Roman'. Does that mean anyone should take me seriously?
 
Roman said:
My armpits smell unbelievably good. There is no finer scent than that of 'Roman'. Does that mean anyone should take me seriously?
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that has nothing to do with taking you seriously.

i take what you say seriously when your not joking,

i dont ask the same back my opinions are straw dogs anyway.

peace.
 
Roman said:
But tell me James R, have you ever seen a strip mine? The damage to my wilderness for your... habit, it's far uglier than heartland cattle or freerange beef in the Outback. Nothing worse than frontier destroyed so you can ride about, protected from the elements.
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aren't you being a little harsh? after all one of the biggest strip mines in the u.s. happens to be a copper mine, the very element that makes it possible for you to post on sciforums
 
leopold99 said:
aren't you being a little harsh? after all one of the biggest strip mines in the u.s. happens to be a copper mine, the very element that makes it possible for you to post on sciforums
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And vegetarians are overreacting.
They have their idiosyncaticies, I have mine. Modern man destroys the environment. If you want to feel like you're living a morally just life not eating some piddling slaughterhouse creature, don't let me step up on your self-delusion.
 
James R said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the chasm you have to cross to begin to develop morally is almost immeasurably wide. I pity you.
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And as I've said before, government fiend, you won't push your fucking religious morals on me. To me, if I benefit, it is good. Morals are obsolete. Gain is now what is good.

By the same argument, killing a human baby in a "humane" manner (say, with a single gunshot to the head), and eating it, would be just fine, too.
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Go for it, if that what makes your stomach grumble. Just be prepared to face the consequences of jail time.
 
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Roman:

[Damaging the environment and killing animals for food are] the same wrong. You can bitch at me for killing some dumbcows, and I'll admit, yeah, I'm killing some dumb cows. So what?
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How many cows have you spent time with, Roman? I'm guessing none.

And so what? So, you're acting immorally, aren't you? Doesn't that mean anything to you?

But tell me James R, have you ever seen a strip mine? The damage to my wilderness for your... habit, it's far uglier than heartland cattle or freerange beef in the Outback. Nothing worse than frontier destroyed so you can ride about, protected from the elements.
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Yes, I've seen strip mines.

Did you miss the point I made before? How are two wrongs better than one wrong, Roman? Are you saying that if we can't solve all the world's problems at once, we should just throw up our hands and give up on ethics completely?

And vegetarians are overreacting.
They have their idiosyncaticies, I have mine.
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But theirs has a moral basis. Yours is just self-absorbed pleasure-seeking.

Modern man destroys the environment. If you want to feel like you're living a morally just life not eating some piddling slaughterhouse creature, don't let me step up on your self-delusion.
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See, the thing is, Roman, that what you regard as "some piddling slaughterhouse creature" is little different from yourself. It feels pain, just like you. It can suffer, just like you. It wants to live, just like you. Yet, you expect the right to live unmolested, yet deny it to others. Why? Because you can.

According to your argument, destroying the environment must be ok, because man has always destroyed the environment. And I suppose bank robberies must be ok too, because men have always robbed banks (at least as long as banks have existed).


Hapsburg:

And as I've before, government fiend, you won't push your fucking religious morals on me. To me, if I benefit, it is good. Morals are obsolete. Gain is now what is good.
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Did I mention religion? No.

And I know I won't convince you, Hapsburg. You're a lost cause. I'm glad I will probably never meet you. It's a good thing your friends and family don't know that you only care about yourself.

By the same argument, killing a human baby in a "humane" manner (say, with a single gunshot to the head), and eating it, would be just fine, too.
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Go for it, if that what makes your stomach grumble. Just be prepared to face the consequences of jail time.
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I'd only go to jail because people who have ethics have decided that killing and eating babies is wrong.

If you ran the world, there'd be no penalty for me, because, as you say, you'd just let me "go for it".

I'd hate to live in your world, Hapsburg. Unless I was you, of course. Because then, "good" would be defined as "whatever is good for Hapsburg".
 
James R said:
[Yes, I've seen strip mines.

Did you miss the point I made before? How are two wrongs better than one wrong, Roman? Are you saying that if we can't solve all the world's problems at once, we should just throw up our hands and give up on ethics completely?
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Surely James, Strip mines damage the environment in far worse ways than simply eating non-sentient beings?
 
....back on topic....That's a sad story razz. You have to be pretty troubled to treat a dog like that, or any animal for that matter. I believe it's alright in killing animals for food or necessity, but treating them with disrespect is abhorrent.
 
Surely James, Strip mines damage the environment in far worse ways than simply eating non-sentient beings?
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I'm not sure. Perhaps they do. If so, what of it?

Want to start a new thread on the ethics of strip-mining?
 
You know, I have wondered if some so called vegetarian crusaders are actually vegetarians. So far everyone i have showed this thread to and has read James R's arguments has gone out and bought a triple cheeseburger just to disagree with him. He's actually have a negative effect here as my long time friend George has decided to eat meat again if that is how vegetarians act.
 
No thankyou.
I'm just saying that if you wanted to help the environment and help ethics, then perhaps it would be better to stop the destruction of habitats which extinct whole species, rather than argue abiout eating cows which are in no danger of extinction.
 
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