American freedoms?
- Thread starter dixonmassey
- Start date
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Duendy: maybe theprob is mr max is you cant read english.....also your jealous i'm more intelligent than you by faaaaaaaaaar
At least he can spell.
At least he can spell.
Great Satan said:
End propaganda...start truth:
Ironically Fascism (you know, the same right wing nut stuff you like so much in the USA) brought Communism into Europe. Europe was not liberated from communism by freedom. Hitler was a reaction to communist values. Hitler tried to get rid of communism, but all he did was to lay the road wide open for communism in Europe.
hmmmm dont know what the uk its got to do wid you, but seeings yamention it, i actually am a goo speller, but there are various things u my not be awre ofLucysnow said:
i have totype on a mini mini keyboard;
i am a bad typer;
i type wit passion;
i like to flava certain words to add a certain jen es se pois
and....and...i haven't finished yet!
if it was a toss up between being a lousy speller and stikin to the narrow views old b wax keeps to, can ya guess which one i'd choose?
Michael: 1) Do you think that there should be Public funded schools? If so why? Why should I have to pay for some other kid to get an education? Their family should pay for it – not me. I’ll take care of mine own and they take care of theirs.
Public schools should be funded at the local level, per the majority rule at the local level. Basic education benefits everyone.
2) Do you think that the mentally handicap should be taken care of? If so why? Why should my money take care of the schizophrenics – let them beg on the street, right?
Yes, but not by the government but rather the family.
3) Should the homeless and jobless be given shelter and food – For Free? If so why? Shouldn’t they beg on the streets with the schizophrenics – let them beg for their meals right? Why should my money go towards helping them?
If local government wants to extend a short term helping hand, that's fine with me provided it is put up to a vote. Otherwise, go get a job, then get a home. But of course, you must have at least a basic education to do this. (see my answer to #1 above)
4) Should money have “In God we Trust” printed on it? I don’t remember believing in God? Why should my rights be infringed upon by some monotheism bull shit on MY money?
"In God we Trust" is the historic motto of this Country and has no other significance. If it offends you, do not use paper money or coins. Charge it.
5) Should I be allowed to walk around nude in public? I don’t see why not? If you don’t like it, look the other way mate! Don’t tell me I have to wear clothing!?! What about my right to go nude!
Yes, I have no problem with that. However, we should allow local governments to fine ugly people as an "eyesore to the community"
6) Should all drugs be legal? Why the hell can’t I buy a bag of crack or heroin and do it up? Who are you to tell me that I can’t do drugs – it’s my money and my life!
Yes the should.
7) What about selling drugs – Budweiser gets to, why can’t I sell MJ or Crank? Where’s my freedom to make a buck?!?!
It's OK with me as long as you stand behind your product and take the consequences for false advertising.
) Why do the f*cking Churches get a taxs break? If you're making money mate - pay your taxes!
Tax breaks are given to churches because the majority elects to do that. Those breaks are equal across all religions to prevent the support of one and the persecution of another.
Should rich people get to give their money to their children when they die? WHY? That means their kids will get a leg up and probably do better than thiose without rich parents. Maybe that money and those assets should go back into the pool so that everyone can get a capitalistic chance at it!
The money belongs to those who made it to do with it as they please. To be born to poor parents means in order to make money you must find out how to do it then go and do it, which was what my original post about what the real freedom of this Country is all about. The freedom to be as rich or poor as you desire!
Public schools should be funded at the local level, per the majority rule at the local level. Basic education benefits everyone.
2) Do you think that the mentally handicap should be taken care of? If so why? Why should my money take care of the schizophrenics – let them beg on the street, right?
Yes, but not by the government but rather the family.
3) Should the homeless and jobless be given shelter and food – For Free? If so why? Shouldn’t they beg on the streets with the schizophrenics – let them beg for their meals right? Why should my money go towards helping them?
If local government wants to extend a short term helping hand, that's fine with me provided it is put up to a vote. Otherwise, go get a job, then get a home. But of course, you must have at least a basic education to do this. (see my answer to #1 above)
4) Should money have “In God we Trust” printed on it? I don’t remember believing in God? Why should my rights be infringed upon by some monotheism bull shit on MY money?
"In God we Trust" is the historic motto of this Country and has no other significance. If it offends you, do not use paper money or coins. Charge it.
5) Should I be allowed to walk around nude in public? I don’t see why not? If you don’t like it, look the other way mate! Don’t tell me I have to wear clothing!?! What about my right to go nude!
Yes, I have no problem with that. However, we should allow local governments to fine ugly people as an "eyesore to the community"
6) Should all drugs be legal? Why the hell can’t I buy a bag of crack or heroin and do it up? Who are you to tell me that I can’t do drugs – it’s my money and my life!
Yes the should.
7) What about selling drugs – Budweiser gets to, why can’t I sell MJ or Crank? Where’s my freedom to make a buck?!?!
It's OK with me as long as you stand behind your product and take the consequences for false advertising.
) Why do the f*cking Churches get a taxs break? If you're making money mate - pay your taxes!
Tax breaks are given to churches because the majority elects to do that. Those breaks are equal across all religions to prevent the support of one and the persecution of another.
Should rich people get to give their money to their children when they die? WHY? That means their kids will get a leg up and probably do better than thiose without rich parents. Maybe that money and those assets should go back into the pool so that everyone can get a capitalistic chance at it!
The money belongs to those who made it to do with it as they please. To be born to poor parents means in order to make money you must find out how to do it then go and do it, which was what my original post about what the real freedom of this Country is all about. The freedom to be as rich or poor as you desire!
Thereby giving children that live in rich neighborhoods an extremely good education and the poor get a shit education.Giskard said:
Fair enough – not sure if it’s making this a wondrous Amercian society . . . but ok.
And if they don’t have a family that takes care of them, well they live on the streets or go to jail. Hey, much better than an institution or receieving free medication.Giskard said:
Which, if you live in any American city you can see the schizophrenics wandering all over down town.
Fair enough – still not sure if it makes America a wondrous place to live in, but we do have the suburbs so that’s OK.
fair enough.Giskard said:
Actually, "In God We Trust" was not made an official motto of the United States until 1956, and the motto did not appear on paper money until 1957. In the early years of our country, around 1800, the church affiliation was perhaps 10% (some authorities say up to 17-20%) of the population, the motto on our coins, then the major medium of exchange, was often just "LIBERTY."Giskard said:
Haaa . . . . no worries mateGiskard said:
Take a lesson from history – the Opium Wars (1839-42, 1856-60) Faced with the health and social problems associated with opium use, the Chinese imperial government prohibited the smoking of opium in 1729.Giskard said:
The Chinese Empiror had something to say to this effect; “Opium has a very violent effect. When an addict smokes it, it rapidly makes him extremely excited and capable of doing anything he pleases. But before long, it kills him. Opium is a poison, undermining our good customs and morality. Its use is prohibited by law. Now the commoner, Yang, dares to bring it into the Forbidden City. Indeed, he flouts the law! He should be turned over to the Board of Punishment, and should be tried and severely sentenced.”
(God Damn Liberal PIG!!!)
So The Coalition of the Willing pounded the Chinese into the dirt and made the drugs legal – which I’m sure you’ll agree surely did the Chinese no favors.
But, hey – Freedom says Amercians should get the chance to do as many types and kinds of drugs as they wish!!!
Freedom
Freedom
Freedom
That didn’t rally answer the question. Why SHOULD they?Giskard said:
I’m atheist, so I don’t think ANY churches should get a break for their belief. If so, then to be fair - I should as well. I should be able to write my belief off on my taxes. If not they’re infringing on my freedom of religion by getting a bloody perk off taxes – that’s Bull Shit.
I was also wondering:
Should Americans have a Minimum Wage? If so why?
Should companies be allowed to form monopolies? Why not?
Should doctors have to heal the sick? Or only the sick with loads of cash?
I think Universities shouldn’t be subsidized by the government either – as an academic I think I should just rent a room on the campus and be able to charge each student what I want to for they’re acquiring my information. I could also have them sign contracts with me that I get a piece of their wealth in the future – if they can’t pay now that is
Should the government give subsidized student loans to the poor? Why? Pay Pay PAY!!!
If you want to play that is!
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Freedom is a word of the past. When this country was founded they set specefic freedoms/rights witch were revolutionary then. Freedom of religion was a huge when, in a time when huguenots (sp?) were being fucking persecuted in europe and religious turmoil was rampant we came here and said fuck it we wont care. Is this true, slightly, Because when catholics came over to...maryland...shit i cant remember whatever people were like WTF? Catholics get the fuck out! But hell the govt didnt say no fuck you maryland you cant become a state because your majority of population is catholic. Or even worse the govt. didnt kill any one because they were catholic. hell now in the 21st cent. we have grown up with these freedoms and they just seem like common sense. As for western countries allowing the spread fucking communism? Perhaps your not familiar with NATO. You think just because Stalin was an ally during WW2 we were going to allow him to spread communism? Hell America was scared shitless of the spread of communism (because we are capitalists and communism would fuck us over.) As for public schools, how is that a bad idea? Hell I dont have the money to pay a 12,000 dollar tuition for some public school. I go to public school, work my ass off to surpass the scum that i am to be compared with get a godamn scholorship and pay as little as a i can for a university education. but now im getting off an a tangent so im going to stop. Goodbye sirs
please excuse the vulgar language, I was having a very bad day.
dixonmassey
Valued Senior Member
crazy151drinker said:
Black, Indian people in the USA didn't have lots of rights (they have now) not so long time ago. We are talking about present, not the past. Thus, "they didn't have" is not an argument. Yes, corruption is everywhere in Russia. In the USA, corruption is hidden on the top. Only big boys are allowed to engage in it. "Limited choices?" . What the fucking choices are your talking about? Choices of stuff/amount of stuff to consume? What the damned choices do you have? Go/not to college, get a meaningless paperpushing job or a minimum wage job, jump/not to jump of a bridge, buy crappy food in McD or Burger King, buy crap in Wal-Mart or Target, and so on. All your choices are about consumption. Consumption=Freedom? Could be. If so, USA is as free as China.
It is only when fools such as yourself are put into a place outside of this country, behind enemy lines, as I have been, that you truly begin to appreciate what freedom really is. Freedoms are rights given to you by your constitution and the society that maintains and defends that constitution. Those absent "freedoms" that you complain about are not present because of common courtesy and civilized behavior. There is nothing I abhor more than selfish individualists who believe they are truly emancipated from all civilization and that they can act as though their actions have no effect on the whole of the community. Go on my friend, go live off in the woods without civilization and see how well you can provide for yourself. Indeed, you may find that the natural environment is greatest tyranny of all.
Not really, considering we have anti-monopoly legislation.
Of course, because quality of living has been rising. 50 years ago almost everyone, regardless of class lived in a five room, single story house with a small backyard. Now people actually have choices and can spend accordingly.
Lets think about this logically: if you are rich, you can get richer. What's the issue?
A democratic government is only as incompetent as its people. So I blame YOU.
Measuring how much personal wealth one can accrue in a lifetime is a good measure of how 'free' a system is, assuming that freedom is necessary to earning wealth.
However, there exist too many confounding variables in a single lifetime to accurately measure social mobility. For instance, a middle-aged immigrant, fresh off the boat, without any professional skills or knowledge of english probably will die somewhere close to poverty without private property.
But if you measure the number of generations one can go from owning nothing to owning stuff, it's relatively few. This hypothetical immigrant's children have a far greater chance of material success, and the children's children even more so.
The opportunity for enough economic freedom to worry about life's intangible, immaterial stuff is great enough in America that we've turned out some great philosophy, art, literature, and enough GDP to drown ourselves.
But personally, some of the freedoms that I like to remember are qutie few in number.
1. Sexual freedom. Let's hear it for co-eds. Fags have some rights, too.
2. Religious freedom. It's great not having to worship anything.
3. Freedom of expression. To quote The Offspring, "Kill the president, kill the president,
Kill the president, kill the president,
Kill the president, kill the president now!"
However, there exist too many confounding variables in a single lifetime to accurately measure social mobility. For instance, a middle-aged immigrant, fresh off the boat, without any professional skills or knowledge of english probably will die somewhere close to poverty without private property.
But if you measure the number of generations one can go from owning nothing to owning stuff, it's relatively few. This hypothetical immigrant's children have a far greater chance of material success, and the children's children even more so.
The opportunity for enough economic freedom to worry about life's intangible, immaterial stuff is great enough in America that we've turned out some great philosophy, art, literature, and enough GDP to drown ourselves.
But personally, some of the freedoms that I like to remember are qutie few in number.
1. Sexual freedom. Let's hear it for co-eds. Fags have some rights, too.
2. Religious freedom. It's great not having to worship anything.
3. Freedom of expression. To quote The Offspring, "Kill the president, kill the president,
Kill the president, kill the president,
Kill the president, kill the president now!"
dixonmassey
Valued Senior Member
Could it be that you didn't have much time to appreciate local freedoms imposed by the local society to benefit local citizens ... You looked with Western eyes on a strange culture, results are predictable. BTW, what American freedoms did you defend so far away? Freedom to consume cheap resources? Atta boy. Again, I repeat, bulk of Western freedoms lie in the area of consumption. Take weekly trips to Wal-Mart away, the king will remain almost naked.Hagar said:
Agree. But most Americans don't, they think it's Jesus not society who granted them Freedoms, whatever they are
[/quote] Those absent "freedoms" that you complain about are not present because of common courtesy and civilized behavior. [/quote]
I am not sure whom are you refering to, probably to me, I am indeed quite a fool. Again, I think you are mixing two things. Freedom on paper and freedom in the real life. To enjoy bunch of declared freedoms, one needs $ and lots of $. Funny thing, if one has lots of $, one can enjoy lots of Western freedoms everywhere even in Saudi Arabia. So, taking trips to Wal-Mart, average Joe cannot afford much of a freedom.
I abhore selfishness too. I do believe that "freedom" peddling in the West is a part of massive propaganda campaign to atomize society, to kill solidarity among people, ability to organize, to kill historical memories, morals, traditions, ... In other words to transform a Joe into easily manipulated (through mass cult, media, school, ...) rootless human robot. Western countries are making tremendous progress in manufacturing of homo robotus (who thinks of himself as free).
I'm not a rugged individualist by conviction. Life forces me to be one. I'd rather live in a society built on solidarity, not on competion. Alas, there is not a single one in the World. However, I'd rather be in woods than to become a modern western homo robotus. Tyranny of nature 100 better than life in a "domination through brain control" world.
Hagar: "Freedoms are rights given to you by your constitution and the society that maintains and defends that constitution. "
This is soooooooo wrong!!!! The Constitution does not give us, the people, rights. We the people, throught the Constitution, have given certain limited powers to those that we elect to govern us. All other powers and rights are retained by the people.
This is soooooooo wrong!!!! The Constitution does not give us, the people, rights. We the people, throught the Constitution, have given certain limited powers to those that we elect to govern us. All other powers and rights are retained by the people.
Giskard said:
Maybe kinda sorta. The way our electorate system is set up, we the people haven't much direct control over our leaders. We certainly have lots, but not enough to truly claim that all power comes from the people.
Have you ever heard of the political elite theory? It basically works like this:
Not everyone has the interest, time or resources to care about politics. In fact, most voters are woefully underinformed on the majority of issues. So in their place, groups representing special interests, or elites, manage most of the affairs of government by lobbying elected representatives.
These elites can be anyone from steel companies to let's hug a tree hippies, but rarely do they represent 'the people'. Rather, they are fiercly vocal on an issue and represent but a slice of the population. A very good example is the Christian Right in American politics. While a minority of American voters identify themselves as fundamental Christians, they carry a good deal of clout because of their vocality.
I agree completely with you on this. However, I think that in our cultural philosophy, only a freedom of consumption will allow us to be free otherwise. Freedom from hunger, angry bears and enemy tribes lets us worry about other stuff. By extension, the more material goods we may attain, the less we have to worry about.dixonmassey said:
I mean, at what period in human history do you have a society that is so materially wealthy that they can worry about the ethical treatment of food animals? Environmentalism, however one sees it (personally, I'm a fan), is a fairly recent philosophy, and seems to be associated with urban, material rich idustrial societies.
If everyone is free to consume as much as they wish, then you eliminate the slavery of want. That's the rhetoric, anyway. And the necessity to consume to support American companies and workers. A look at America's early 20th century imperialist rhetoric does a great deal in explaining our current thinking.
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U.S. immigration officials refused Tuesday to allow Robert Fisk, longtime Middle East correspondent for the London newspaper, The Independent, to board a plane from Toronto to Denver. Fisk was on his way to Santa Fe for a sold-out appearance in the Lannan Foundation’s readings-and-conversations series Wednesday night.
According to Christie Mazuera Davis, a Lannan program officer, Fisk was told that his papers were not in order. freedom baby
According to Christie Mazuera Davis, a Lannan program officer, Fisk was told that his papers were not in order. freedom baby