American freedoms?

It only took 200 years for America to become total crap.
Huge profit mongering monoplies exist everywhere.
Costs of living has risin drastically in the last 50 years meanwhile wages have remained fairly unchanged.
Every transaction between the rich and the poor is not an even exchange. (It favors the rich.) Thereby, every day, the gap between the rich and the poor widens.
Every aspect of government and big business is characterized by incompetence.
It's pretty damn scary when you are at the ass end of it.
 
This term, "Freedom" when used by the present administration has nothing to do with the citizens of the US. Freedom to them is the lack of entanglements in opening markets around the world, the roll back of regulations that keep the environment from going to hell, the deregulation of industries that should be regulated, the claim of "Executive Privilege" when people ask questions that they feel shouldn't be asked.

Freedom is for the rich. For Corporations.

Anyone who’s read the law which has taken place of the Constitution - the Patriot Act - would know that freedom is nothing but a word to 99.9% of the US.

In NYC, you can't walk 2 feet down any street without someone watching your every move [the best prisons are those in which the prisoners think they are free]. Cameras everyplace.

Yes, in this country, you are free to do as you wish as long as you pick from the list of items "THEY" allow you to do.
 
dkb218 said:
Freedom is for the rich. .... In NYC, you can't walk 2 feet down any street without someone watching your every move..... Cameras everyplace.
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The cameras can't see rich people?? Are those new types of cameras?

dkb218 said:
Yes, in this country, you are free to do as you wish as long as you pick from the list of items "THEY" allow you to do.
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Name a few things that you, as an American, can't do. I'm curious what "things" would be included on that list. We have the freedom to murder people if we want to ...that's pretty damned free, ain't it?

Baron Max
 
Clockwood said:
You are free to complain about the government and our leaders without being arrested for treason.

You are free to worship any god or none at all without the government's interference.

You are free to better yourself as much as your means, competence, and luck will allow.
You will not be forced to work somewhere as a slave or otherwise actively held down.

You have the freedom to see whatever information you wish, barring classified crap or when it invades another's privacy.
There will be no official government censorship of the media. No goon with a gun pointed at the newscaster's head.

Yadda yadda. Basically, you can live your life as if the government did not exist 99% of the time. They just keep the gears turning behind the scenes, except in emergency situations.
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"You are free to complain about the government and our leaders without being arrested for treason.

You are free to worship any god or none at all without the government's interference.

You are free to better yourself as much as your means, competence, and luck will allow.
You will not be forced to work somewhere as a slave or otherwise actively held down."

You are free so long as you believe the above is all true, even if it is BS and you die never knowing any different!

Freedom has been wrapped in plastic and pushed into the mailbox for you to read with your morning coffee.

The truth has been locked away so that you and I can never find it!

You and I however have open eyes!
 
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Germans and Russians are now free from Nazism and Communsim thanks to the free countries in the west. Also, there is no religious police going around beating people when they see males and females talking to each other or if a female shows her ankle in public. Go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and try living there for a while, then come back to a free country and then you will see what its like to be free.

Examples of oppression here: http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/index.php
http://massgraves.info/



http://www.apostatesofislam.com

http://www.faithfreedom.org

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/index.php

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php
http://www.faithfreedom.org/holiday/phpBB2/index.php


According to these links the Quran has been changed over time.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-koran-manuscripts.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter8/3.html

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/

http://www.jodkowski.pl/re/MBright.html

http://cremesti.com/amalid/Islam/Yemeni_Ancient_Koranic_Texts.htm



http://imrepublican.topcities.com/Islam/islam.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/

http://www.twin-towers.net/al-farooq_photos.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.persecution.org

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/kafirdomunity/action.htm

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/BTaliban/Bangla_Taliban_Photos.html

http://www.bwoi.cjb.net

http://www.chechentruth.cjb.net/

http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.rotter.net/israel/

http://www.geocities.com/the_awful_truth_about_islam/index.htm

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/Islam.html

http://www.atcoalition.net/

http://www.taliban-online.info/

http://www.geocities.com/milkmandan2003/TalibanOnline1.html

http://www.truthtree.com/Debating/posts/755.html

http://kafirnation.com/portal/index.asp

http://www.isralert.com/archives/2005/03/deceit_thy_name.php




"Modern Liberals, With Some Exceptions, Are Fascists. They Preach Peace At The Expense Of Liberty, Diversity At The Expense Of Common Sense, Equality At The Expense Of Fairness And Choice At The Expense Of Life. They Are The First To Speak About Rights, Yet They Seek To Deny You Yours If You Disagree With Them. They Vociferate The Importance Of Free Speech, Yet Do Everything In Their Power To Stifle Yours. They Demonize The Very System Which Allows Them The Freedom To Criticize In The First Place, And They Are The Last People In Line When It Comes To Defending The One Country On Earth That Would Ever Tolerate Their Hypocrisy. They Are Divisive, Immoral And Utterly Incapable Of Understanding Why Everything I Just Wrote Is The Truth." - Edward L. Daley


http://massgraves.info/
 
Baron Max - I agree with you to a point, but tell me how it violates anyones rights when I decide to drive my car without wearing a seatbelt. Or, when I decide to ride my motorcycle without a helmet. Yes, I realize these are small things...relatively insignificant in the BIG scheme of things, yet...It is my believe that it is the small choices that we are allowed to make or not make on a daily basis that allows one to feel free.

-KitNyx
 
KitNyx said:
Baron Max - I agree with you to a point, but tell me how it violates anyones rights when I decide to drive my car without wearing a seatbelt. Or, when I decide to ride my motorcycle without a helmet.
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Oh, please ....please don't get me started on all of THOSE silly-assed liberal-assed laws and rules!!!! I get very upset and begin to hammer on my keyboard with a big fuckin' sledgehammer!! Fuckin' liberals have FORCED those damned laws on us .....got that?...... FORCED!!!

Baron Max
 
America isn't free. Therefore, what does that say about the rest of the world that are less free than us.

The damage to freedom is the result of anything less than 100% focus on the individual.

When discussing change/improvements/flaws etc. We need to stay focused 100% on the indiviudal. Even a slight stray is a large damage to freedom.

What do we focus on instead? Business. Profit/loss.

For example:
We make a change, and we discuss how certain people might lose jobs or certain business might suffer. We tend to discuss how such change affects commerce/profit/loss. We need to let go of this. The economy can and must function independently for itself.

When we make change, we must think about how said change can be better for the individual period.
New technologies, new changes will cause businesses to suffer and people to lose jobs. We must not consider that, and let the economy adjust itself. Society should not adjust itself around the economy.

Society needs to be free to gorw and improve. We should allow the economy to be independent Certain changes can make businesses suffer. Certain changes can put people out of busienss. They can even put entire industries out of business. This is part of social growth and improvement. What these changes mean is that we no longer need these businesses.

To go out of out way to keep them existing is to create a false necessity. False necessities impede social progress, and destroy freedom.
 
cool skill said:
The damage to freedom is the result of anything less than 100% focus on the individual.
We need to stay focused 100% on the indiviudal. Even a slight stray is a large damage to freedom.
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Which "individual"? Should one person be free to cause another individual harm? And if not, then isn't one's "freedom" diminished at the expense of the other's freedom?

No, in any society/group, the individual is important, but NOT at the expense of all of the other members of that society/group. Thus, no matter how one views it, SOME individual freedoms MUST be curtailed in favor of the freedoms of the whole society/group.

cool skill said:
What do we focus on instead? Business. Profit/loss.
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Sounds like a statement of an idealist!

I don't think we focus on business and profit/loss, we focus on our means to live and thrive. If the businesses fail, then we have no jobs, then we can't buy food, then we starve to death. See? It's a balance that idealists can't seem to realize. But that's okay ....as the idealist learns about real life and reality, their views change toward a more balanced outlook.

Baron Max
 
hah,,,,,'idealist'?
is...the indivdual who believes the dodgy IDEAS fed em by the power elite
 
Duendy, I sure do wish you'd learn to type! And to put your thoughts into proper English so we could all read it. Your posts are always so damned difficult to read and understand. Could you please take some lessons in typing and English grammar?

Baron Max
 
We're not free to vote which is a fundalmental freedom given that you have to vote for one of the big political parties (with big business funding,) because everyone else will, It really seems that democrasy is but a choice of two rich dictactorships............. Just a jaded thought there.
 
"Baron Max - I agree with you to a point, but tell me how it violates anyones rights when I decide to drive my car without wearing a seatbelt. Or, when I decide to ride my motorcycle without a helmet."

You violate my rights because MY ASS is forced to PAY for your fucking medical bills when your money runs out. Thats why.

And all of these "What about Russia" comparisons are bullshit becuase they didnt even have these rights 20 years ago. And they still have massive corruption and limited choices. They have a loooooooong ways to go.

And Germany- You DO NOT have the right to be a Nazi, but here you do. Sad, but hey its a right.

Lets not get into China....
 
"We're not free to vote which is a fundalmental freedom given that you have to vote for one of the big political parties (with big business funding,) because everyone else will, It really seems that democrasy is but a choice of two rich dictactorships............. Just a jaded thought there."

Since when did you have to vote for one of the big political parties? You can vote for yourself if you want. No one is forcing you to vote for one of the Big 2. If you dont like them vote for someone else. Dont like the choices? Fine. Start your own party. Start a new party revolution. Its a FREE COUNTRY. GO for it. Just stop bitching you dont like things when you are doing nothing to change them.
 
crazy151drinker:" You violate my rights because MY ASS is forced to PAY for your fucking medical bills when your money runs out. Thats why."

Then why not change the law to prevent that rather than forcing people to protect themsleves with useless regulation.
 
The real fundamental freedom we have in this country is the freedom to make as much money as you desire. The only requirement is that you learn the way to do it and then go do it. Wealth provides you with the means to be free. When governments turn to socialism it takes away the ability for ordinary people to break out for themselves and find their own freedom. Programs that give minimal handouts that actually keep the poor dependent on the government itself is the easiest way for that government to rob the people of their freedom.
 
Giskard said:
The real fundamental freedom we have in this country is the freedom to make as much money as you desire. The only requirement is that you learn the way to do it and then go do it. Wealth provides you with the means to be free. When governments turn to socialism it takes away the ability for ordinary people to break out for themselves and find their own freedom. Programs that give minimal handouts that actually keep the poor dependent on the government itself is the easiest way for that government to rob the people of their freedom.
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1) Do you think that there should be Public funded schools? If so why? Why should I have to pay for some other kid to get an education? Their family should pay for it – not me. I’ll take care of mine own and they take care of theirs.

2) Do you think that the mentally handicap should be taken care of? If so why? Why should my money take care of the schizophrenics – let them beg on the street, right?

3) Should the homeless and jobless be given shelter and food – For Free? If so why? Shouldn’t they beg on the streets with the schizophrenics – let them beg for their meals right? Why should my money go towards helping them?

4) Should money have “In God we Trust” printed on it? I don’t remember believing in God? Why should my rights be infringed upon by some monotheism bull shit on MY money?

5) Should I be allowed to walk around nude in public? I don’t see why not? If you don’t like it, look the other way mate! Don’t tell me I have to wear clothing!?! What about my right to go nude!

6) Should all drugs be legal? Why the hell can’t I buy a bag of crack or heroin and do it up? Who are you to tell me that I can’t do drugs – it’s my money and my life!

7) What about selling drugs – Budweiser gets to, why can’t I sell MJ or Crank? Where’s my freedom to make a buck?!?!

8) Why do the f*cking Churches get a taxs break? If you're making money mate - pay your taxes!

Should rich people get to give their money to their children when they die? WHY? That means their kids will get a leg up and probably do better than thiose without rich parents. Maybe that money and those assets should go back into the pool so that everyone can get a capitalistic chance at it!



I do agree that necessity is the mother of invention and socialism definately dulls this.

But only expect the poor to take it for so long. In the past you could bull shit the poor by saying it’s God’s will that they are poor and that the King was chosen by God to do God’s will and hey AFTER you're DEAD, if you were a good little peasant, THEN you get yours, so shut it and toil!!!

You know, they only buy that shit for so long mate ;)

When the rich own everything and the poor wake up to realize there is not going to be a snowballs chance in hell of not being poor – then there’s a revolution. This has always been the case. There has NEVER been a system invented whereby this hasn’t eventually happened. As such, if history is anything to go by, expect it to eventually happen in the States too.

Which is probably why we have social agreements. To try and even things out and forestall the inevitable.
 
Oh and why should we have public holidays?
Should employers HAVE to give that time off?
What about minimum wage? WHY should we HAVE to pay people a certain amount - let the markets work it out right?
What's this shit about work place conditions - Haa! Let the markets fix it. If it's shitty well then someone will make a better place to work in?
What about health care - why should doctors be obliged to heal the sick, how about the sick WITH money, end of story.
Yeah, and what's this thing called LAW? DO we really need most of it? It's taking away my rights!
Why can't people have monpolies? It's their business empire after all.
.....
 
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