American-Afghan War!!!
- Thread starter thecurly1
- Start date
Aside from the race-o-links taking place in this collumn, I'd like to make a brief comment on military action in Afghanistan.
The military since the end of the Cold War, has still been thinking in terms of how to slay the Big Red Bear, instead of becoming a more agile, deadlier, and smarter military. That will change during and after the war.
I don't like saying "the war", it makes this situation all to real, and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I doubt that there will be a full on Soviet-style invasion of Afghanistan, instead an air-campaign and special ops campagin. These operations will be backed by using gurrelia forces of the Northern Alliance, and other opposition forces in Afghanistan. Remember we don't know how everyone actuall feels there, because of the Taliban state media. They are all starving to death, and maybe we can get a dual rebellion thing going.
During WWII, the Nazis had the best military on the planet. They kicked the British, French, and Soviets asses repeidately. By the end of '40, they had Paris, the capital of a then superpower, France. The British had been driven out of Europe, and the Russians on the defensive. When we first landed in N. Africa, we were massacred by Rommel. Still we fought on, and eventually won the war years later.
If you don't fight you automatically lose, if you do fight you at least have a chance at winning, and the longer you fight the better the odds become of winning.
The military since the end of the Cold War, has still been thinking in terms of how to slay the Big Red Bear, instead of becoming a more agile, deadlier, and smarter military. That will change during and after the war.
I don't like saying "the war", it makes this situation all to real, and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I doubt that there will be a full on Soviet-style invasion of Afghanistan, instead an air-campaign and special ops campagin. These operations will be backed by using gurrelia forces of the Northern Alliance, and other opposition forces in Afghanistan. Remember we don't know how everyone actuall feels there, because of the Taliban state media. They are all starving to death, and maybe we can get a dual rebellion thing going.
During WWII, the Nazis had the best military on the planet. They kicked the British, French, and Soviets asses repeidately. By the end of '40, they had Paris, the capital of a then superpower, France. The British had been driven out of Europe, and the Russians on the defensive. When we first landed in N. Africa, we were massacred by Rommel. Still we fought on, and eventually won the war years later.
If you don't fight you automatically lose, if you do fight you at least have a chance at winning, and the longer you fight the better the odds become of winning.
Kmguru, didn't they fire on someone or something like that?
I thought I read it on the msnbc ticker, but never saw it again.
P.S. I was looking at a net archive of the Detroit Free Press, from both September 10 & 11. Wow, the world was a different place back then. I am already becoming nostalgic for the world as it was on the tenth of September and before then. And I say that only because the terrorist attack had not happened.
I suggest anyone look at their papers from the day of the attack and before. It's like America was reborn into a sort of hell on the 11th. Really interesting.
I thought I read it on the msnbc ticker, but never saw it again.
P.S. I was looking at a net archive of the Detroit Free Press, from both September 10 & 11. Wow, the world was a different place back then. I am already becoming nostalgic for the world as it was on the tenth of September and before then. And I say that only because the terrorist attack had not happened.
I suggest anyone look at their papers from the day of the attack and before. It's like America was reborn into a sort of hell on the 11th. Really interesting.
<i>"Aside from the race-o-links taking place in this collumn..."</i>
http://www.arabworldnews.com/
Information is important. No?
http://www.arabworldnews.com/
Information is important. No?
kmguru
Staff member
The bottom line is: the public security measures are useless and is for show only. So let us get back to business as usual and let the government wake up and let the National Security Agency secure us from outside.
We rammed into an iceberg because somebody was sleep at the wheel. I would rather have the captain was where we are going than sleep on a rubber boat inside my luxury cabin.
We rammed into an iceberg because somebody was sleep at the wheel. I would rather have the captain was where we are going than sleep on a rubber boat inside my luxury cabin.
Tis a thorny problem not matter how it is approached. You can not win and gain ground by air. The Russians found that in the hills and mountians that the lines of travel and supply limit where one gains access to the hilltops. Many were the ambushes set up along these routes. So shall we find should we try such. Isolationism, Money trails, Intellegence, traitors and snitches shall become the tools of war in this one. Direct frontal approach will ensure casualties beyond measure as the Russians found out.
There's no way to win in Afghanistan, so it's pointless to even try. Ask the Russians and British. Besides which, all the US needs to do is grab Bin Laden. An airborne division can hold an airbase where special forces teams can be stationed to grab him as soon as any intel comes in. Best way I think, but not easy.
Interesting an unexpected consequence: A thaw in US/Iranian relations. This could work out well for all concerned, but will be incredibly difficult and require the utmost in sensitivity. Interesting though - since 1990 Iranian/US interests have often coincided - the country truly is the best long-term hope of a 'friendly' regional power, believe it or not. Iran could bring stability to the region, but internal political battles are vital, as is the US approach to the current crisis. Despite my misgivings, it looks like Powell is leading the way in shaping Bush's malable mind. There is yet potential for a better than good outcome to this whole tagic episode.
Interesting an unexpected consequence: A thaw in US/Iranian relations. This could work out well for all concerned, but will be incredibly difficult and require the utmost in sensitivity. Interesting though - since 1990 Iranian/US interests have often coincided - the country truly is the best long-term hope of a 'friendly' regional power, believe it or not. Iran could bring stability to the region, but internal political battles are vital, as is the US approach to the current crisis. Despite my misgivings, it looks like Powell is leading the way in shaping Bush's malable mind. There is yet potential for a better than good outcome to this whole tagic episode.
It is not pointless to try to win. It is pointless to roll over and belly up. That only envites more of the same as what we had in New York. The point of my earlier post was that it can not be convential. That will not work. Neither will ignoring the situtation as that has brought us what we now have. It is a new battlefield with a new way needed to do things.
Bullshit.
Be weary you pesimists and pacifists, here goes my counterpoints.
You can win a war in Afghanistan. Hills and mountains don't fight, people do. People, the Taliban in particular are the problem. The terrain aids in the problem, but it isn't everything. Three historical examples of how history's underdogs have won wars.
The earliest example of people doubting the ability of a force to destroy another, is actually a converse of our present situation. The American militia, after YEARS of intense fighting in the colonies, defeates the greatest power since Rome, Great Britian. We were the first sucessful military rebellion against the crown, if Washington had listened to the nay-sayers there would be no United States of America.
The second example is little known, but important. The Russo-Japanesse War occured in the late 1800s, and for the first time in century's a European power was defeated by a Asian power. The Japanesse won the war against one of the most formidible empires in Eurasia, Imperial Russia under the Czars.
The third, which was stated earlier is the United States again. For nearly two and a half years of fighting in WWII, the Nazis stormed across Europe, into Asia, and Africa. The mighty French were defeated, the British back on their island, contemplating a peace treaty, and the Soviets on the defensive. America invades North Africa w/the Brits and we get our ass reamed by Rommel at the start. After years of fighting, Rommel leaves Africa, the Soviets push the Nazis back from the gates of Moscow, and Stalingrad, and finally in 1944 the second front on Europe is opened at Normandy, France.
What if Roosevelts people said that the a war against the Nazis couldn't be won? The United States would speaking Germany and Japanesse, or at least every European would be wearing Swastikas.
We have no choice but to fight.
If anyone want's to dispute this go ahead, I'm ready to back up my statement.
Be weary you pesimists and pacifists, here goes my counterpoints.
You can win a war in Afghanistan. Hills and mountains don't fight, people do. People, the Taliban in particular are the problem. The terrain aids in the problem, but it isn't everything. Three historical examples of how history's underdogs have won wars.
The earliest example of people doubting the ability of a force to destroy another, is actually a converse of our present situation. The American militia, after YEARS of intense fighting in the colonies, defeates the greatest power since Rome, Great Britian. We were the first sucessful military rebellion against the crown, if Washington had listened to the nay-sayers there would be no United States of America.
The second example is little known, but important. The Russo-Japanesse War occured in the late 1800s, and for the first time in century's a European power was defeated by a Asian power. The Japanesse won the war against one of the most formidible empires in Eurasia, Imperial Russia under the Czars.
The third, which was stated earlier is the United States again. For nearly two and a half years of fighting in WWII, the Nazis stormed across Europe, into Asia, and Africa. The mighty French were defeated, the British back on their island, contemplating a peace treaty, and the Soviets on the defensive. America invades North Africa w/the Brits and we get our ass reamed by Rommel at the start. After years of fighting, Rommel leaves Africa, the Soviets push the Nazis back from the gates of Moscow, and Stalingrad, and finally in 1944 the second front on Europe is opened at Normandy, France.
What if Roosevelts people said that the a war against the Nazis couldn't be won? The United States would speaking Germany and Japanesse, or at least every European would be wearing Swastikas.
We have no choice but to fight.
If anyone want's to dispute this go ahead, I'm ready to back up my statement.
You cannot win in Afghanistan by killing a few extremists. Terrorism is only the symptoms of the disease. To win this 'war?' we must re-educate those who hate the west.
Understanding, patience, tolerance, and education are the real weapons that help build truth and enlightenment.
If the Taliban regime continues to exist in any form after the killings then that will leave a dangerous seed that can grow again and bite back even harder in years to come.
Jesus said love your enemies, and that really means finding ways to understand them and teach them a better approach to life.
Many centuries ago a group of barbarians from Western Europe decided to convert a number of peaceful tribesmen from the Middle East to Christianity. These tribes people were part of an area that was rich in culture and trade, far more advanced that the west. But their infant religion was still growing and they were not an organized group.
When these Moslems refused to convert, the Christian murderers would hack them to pieces and rape their women.
After some time the Moslems managed to organize themselves and fight back resulting in the eventual expulsion of the Christian bigots and killers.
The result of the Crusades was a group of united peoples under a new and powerful religion we know as Islam. The hate for Christianity continues to this day despite the Koran saying it should not be so.
Had the arrogant and barbaric Christians not tried to inflict their beliefs on others then Islam may well have faded away. Unfortunately their victims became strong in numbers, and built a powerful hate for the west.
Dare I say that the ultimate cause of today's terrorism is really Christianity? It is tempting, and I suspect is probably true and just in a rather unfortunate manner.
There is enormous tension in the Middle East right now, and even for those many Islamic states that have condemned the recent terrorist actions, it would not take much for them to re-unite if they feel that Islam is being attacked again.
If the powerful anti western feeling of the grass-roots Pakistani's results in an overthrow of its current military dictator, then these strong Taliban supporters will have nuclear weapons at their disposal. If such a weapon is used against a Western city then will the west retaliate with more nuclear weapons? I suspect it would and then we will have WWIII.
The cycle of wars and hatred appears to be starting again and we still have not learnt that war never solves anything.
Knowledge and education are the solutions. Irrational and brutal religions will be our destruction even when one of them has the claim to love ones enemies. Isn't that the height of hypocrisy?
Cris
Understanding, patience, tolerance, and education are the real weapons that help build truth and enlightenment.
If the Taliban regime continues to exist in any form after the killings then that will leave a dangerous seed that can grow again and bite back even harder in years to come.
Jesus said love your enemies, and that really means finding ways to understand them and teach them a better approach to life.
Many centuries ago a group of barbarians from Western Europe decided to convert a number of peaceful tribesmen from the Middle East to Christianity. These tribes people were part of an area that was rich in culture and trade, far more advanced that the west. But their infant religion was still growing and they were not an organized group.
When these Moslems refused to convert, the Christian murderers would hack them to pieces and rape their women.
After some time the Moslems managed to organize themselves and fight back resulting in the eventual expulsion of the Christian bigots and killers.
The result of the Crusades was a group of united peoples under a new and powerful religion we know as Islam. The hate for Christianity continues to this day despite the Koran saying it should not be so.
Had the arrogant and barbaric Christians not tried to inflict their beliefs on others then Islam may well have faded away. Unfortunately their victims became strong in numbers, and built a powerful hate for the west.
Dare I say that the ultimate cause of today's terrorism is really Christianity? It is tempting, and I suspect is probably true and just in a rather unfortunate manner.
There is enormous tension in the Middle East right now, and even for those many Islamic states that have condemned the recent terrorist actions, it would not take much for them to re-unite if they feel that Islam is being attacked again.
If the powerful anti western feeling of the grass-roots Pakistani's results in an overthrow of its current military dictator, then these strong Taliban supporters will have nuclear weapons at their disposal. If such a weapon is used against a Western city then will the west retaliate with more nuclear weapons? I suspect it would and then we will have WWIII.
The cycle of wars and hatred appears to be starting again and we still have not learnt that war never solves anything.
Knowledge and education are the solutions. Irrational and brutal religions will be our destruction even when one of them has the claim to love ones enemies. Isn't that the height of hypocrisy?
Cris
Odin,
Good point. But then Christianity wants to convert the world to Christianity.
Is a world war between these two religions inevitable?
Wars are often about territory. The territory here seems to be what people believe. A desire by these two regimes to dominate the world.
Is there no hope for rationality?
Cris
Good point. But then Christianity wants to convert the world to Christianity.
Is a world war between these two religions inevitable?
Wars are often about territory. The territory here seems to be what people believe. A desire by these two regimes to dominate the world.
Is there no hope for rationality?
Cris
kmguru
Staff member
thecurly1 wrote:
Hello? The Afganis are the underdogs. We are the superpower on the face of this planet. Are you calling our Military an underdog?Most of the Afgans do not carry weapons. They are the weapons. The Talibans are a bunch of Mullahs, that are physically weak and old. Unless you want to exterminate 25 million people that carry no weapons, you better come up with another plan. Your way of thinking will lead to Genocide as a solution. But with a billion people ready to take up the fight, it wont end there.
Let the government do its thing. I never thought I would say this, but this time, we have a good plan, and it will come from the new military to fight a new war.
Think out of the box. Think different. Then you shall win.
Hello? The Afganis are the underdogs. We are the superpower on the face of this planet. Are you calling our Military an underdog?Most of the Afgans do not carry weapons. They are the weapons. The Talibans are a bunch of Mullahs, that are physically weak and old. Unless you want to exterminate 25 million people that carry no weapons, you better come up with another plan. Your way of thinking will lead to Genocide as a solution. But with a billion people ready to take up the fight, it wont end there.
Let the government do its thing. I never thought I would say this, but this time, we have a good plan, and it will come from the new military to fight a new war.
Think out of the box. Think different. Then you shall win.
kmguru, don't think with all the US and allies military might it is going to be easy to fight Afghanistan. They know the terrain. I think this is mostly why you guys didn't land at Kosovo, you would have got whipped.
Don't you remember what happened to Hitler's forces in the USSR? There soldiers weren't equipped for the terrain, the Afghanies live in it.
Don't be arrogant with all you military might. My step-grandfather told me the story about one of his dogs who used to win every dog fight. Then one day his dog went up against a little dog. My step grandfather thought it would be easy until that dog bit his dogs {censored}. So don't be complacent.
Also, when did this war against terroism become a war of Christianity vs Islam? Christians don't even take up arms to fight people of different religions as a religion. We might fight for our country but that is doing our duty. As cris said, Jesus said love your enemies. There is no holy war in Christianity because there is no need for one. The pope like Osama Bin Laden justify religions for their holy wars of gaining power. Not the Bible or the Quaran.
Don't you remember what happened to Hitler's forces in the USSR? There soldiers weren't equipped for the terrain, the Afghanies live in it.
Don't be arrogant with all you military might. My step-grandfather told me the story about one of his dogs who used to win every dog fight. Then one day his dog went up against a little dog. My step grandfather thought it would be easy until that dog bit his dogs {censored}. So don't be complacent.
Also, when did this war against terroism become a war of Christianity vs Islam? Christians don't even take up arms to fight people of different religions as a religion. We might fight for our country but that is doing our duty. As cris said, Jesus said love your enemies. There is no holy war in Christianity because there is no need for one. The pope like Osama Bin Laden justify religions for their holy wars of gaining power. Not the Bible or the Quaran.