American-Afghan War!!!

Being my original post may I reiderate that these people speak in one language: death.

They don't understand civilized reason and compassion. The true definition of evil is the absence of empathy. As we sit hidden behind our glowing computer screens, typing furiously at our keyboards in a electronic sparing match thousands of men and women are being deployed to the middle east from various countries.

As we sit on the floor, or the desk or wherever you may be reading this the pillars of the United States government are plotting for a war of an unseen kind against an unseen enemy. I have heard civilian phraises like, "homeland defense", "the war effort," and other phraises that haven't been uttered since the Second World War.

Peace would be a comforting idea, but that's all, an idea. There will be no fruition to the plans for peace and reasoning with an enemy that has no ability to reason.

The blame will be put on us and already has for inciting this, by putting military bases in the middle east, and for medeling in mid-east affairs.

Well EXCUSE me, when the hell did full on invasions of other countries, become exclusivly a middle eastern problem? One, people were getting killed in Kuwait when the Iraqis invaded. Two it was a breach of international law, and three the petrolum output to the western world was indangered. Bin Laden would claim that we were attacking Islam in Somolia, when indeed we were preventing warloards from taking food and aid away from the Somali's.

The reason why we stayed is because the countries, and more specifically the people of the middle east have demonstrated time and time again that they cannot act with any thought of reason, except for that the only religion that belongs on the two continents and the world is theirs. Maybe if the people's of the middle east acted with some responsability, instead of the temper of a two-year-old then we wouldn't have to intervene.

Maybe if Osama Bin Laden would spend his fortune on food, education, and other basic privileges than there would be no problem in the middle east. If he had done that, there wouldn't be 6,000 dead, and an impending war.

So who is at fault, an idiot that is too blind to see the real reason for resolving problems with his resources, or a nation that has worked harder than any other to keep the peace around the world, at the exclusive expense of its taxpayers.

P.S. To anyone living outside of the US or Britian, why is that when you guys need help you bark to us, and when we suffer a national tradgedy you can't even pledge support or resources of any kind against an organization that aims to destroy everything free, and non-Islamic.

If you can provide a counter-point to some of my grievences, maybe I'll shut up.

Then again I am a loud mouth 15-year old American.
 
Undoubtfully the man has in some way access to nuclear or biochemical devices, he's got the money and the will.
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I am no expert on Islam, but I heard an interview with an Islamic religious scholar who claimed that Islam strictly forbids anything that will harm the environment and ecosystem of the world. He said that consequently, Bin Laden would not use nucler/biological weapons since the potential damage to the world itself makes it essentially un-Islamic.

Given how much of this is driven, or at least justified by religion (this is, after all, a jihad), I found this information interesting.
 
Crisp,

<i>"PS: Bowser, I'm not on some personal crusade against you (with me always replying to your posts). It just happens that you make the most explicit comments (meant in a positive way) that simply drive me to reply."</i>

Free speech is a priviledge in which WE should indulge--if not for ourselves, then for those who don't enjoy the same liberty. When contrary opinions are absent, we should then be very concerned.
 
Thanks a lot Odin, I think I am completely right on every issue and I'm happy you agree with me.

The United States and the British people have always stood together when either has been threatened, I am so glad that only an ocean seperates our people's and nothing else.
 
Anyone hear about the riots in Pakistan today (Friday)? They had them in at least three major cities. They were expressing their displeasure with their government's cooperation with the US. Signs said things like: "Allah bless Osama bin Laden" ; "Jihad against the United States" ; "Pakistan will be a graveyard for American troops" and so on and so forth. at least three people were killed and five police injured.
 
"Pakistan will be a graveyard for American troops"

That is for the benefit of the press/media. Somebody forgot to tell them that they are the one that died in the riots and more of them will drop dead if they do not watch out.
 
I hope everyone that thinks this is going to be no problem is correct.

I think we're greatly underestimating what we could be starting.
 
May be you are right felix, War have a tendency to grow...bigger the better. Then when the dust settles, you can say that, you faught in that big one (If you are still alive, that is).
 
This is going to be the bloodiest war ever. It's going to last years. It's going to suck. We have no choice.

It sounds nice to "turn the other cheek" but sometimes you have to overturn the tables in the temple. Many people are angry. The government is making sure what they feel is a "righteous indignation." That they are not acting out of emotion but out of reason. This may come as a shock to some but not all actions are guided by emotions.

The truth? What is the truth? Is the truth the Bin Laden is an evil man who can't be reasoned with? Or is the truth that talk will work? Guess what...we've been talking...it doesn't work in this case. We tried. We're now giving a show of force. We're letting the world know we have nothing against the Islamic religions.

Peace? How does one obtain peace? By ignoring threats? By living in lala land? Or by placing your foot down and saying "enough is enough." It would be nice if peace could come with a letter but it will not. Peace will unfortunatly come with a war.

You can either help fight that war or ignore it and pretend that everything is okay in the world. Which is more cowardly? Ignoring reality? Or accepting and dealing with it?

I would suspect that by the end of the month missles have been fired. And we're off.

Ben
 
The truth of the matter is that we are going to eliminate the terrorists except those we can control to be used them against our enemies. This has been going on for hundreds of years....So sit back, relax and watch the fireworks.

While at it, you can help the country, if you stop watching the TV and go spend some money or visit New York. The Mayor wants you. And it is safe - if we pass this Saturday without any incidents. While the media is chasing the ambulance, go to a Mall or something....
 
I think the Pakistani government is fairly safe from a coup. They were a government put in power by a military coupe, so having lots of military experience the people will be shut up and the government will stand.

Then again a coup would be devistating, being a nuclear power.
 
Money talks - even in the terrorist group and war. Pakistanis will survive, provided US quietly pledges economic support when all of this is over.

I just thought of something. Because people are afraid to fly including the business people, our economy is taking a hit. What I propose is very simple. Why not put 6 to 8 armed (with low impact bullets) military personnel immidiately in every plane until a permanenet sky marshal plan is setup. This type of show of force will boost confidence in the travelling public and we will be back on track, while the government does its thing out there.
 
The military isn't the way to solve our security problems.

Don't get me wrong during wars the Army is a great impliment of power, but no to inforce laws. That is why afterall cops are called, law enforcement officers.

Soldiers are trained to kill, not to make the decision between arrest, reasoning and killing if all other options have been exhausted.

We would like to see a terrorist tried in a court of law if he tries to hijack a plane, ship or any vessel. They can't be tried if he's dead, plus a military presense everywhere is going to make the US look like a new police state. Very bad for the image, I'm sure the sky marshalls are trained very well and can handel the situations arriving.

Plus blowing someone's head away with a hundred people of all ages watching will cause irrepreable damage to their brains.
 
Here is a level-headed assessment of what the US could be heading into as recounted by a former Soviet soldier.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-092201tension.story


"I asked an old man, 'Why do you live in such conditions? Don't you want to do something to improve your lot?' " Lisinenko said. "But the man replied, 'Don't you understand that the worse we live in this world, the better our lives will be in paradise? We don't want the same things in life that you want.' "

That's when Lisinenko said he began to understand that Western ideas of warfare might not succeed in Afghanistan. How do you battle a foe who has so little to protect in this world? A person who may believe a greater good will come from sacrificing himself, his home, his family? How do you vanquish an enemy for whom categories of defeat and victory, life and death do not match yours?
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The answer to that Porfiry, is simple. Either leave them alone, but since they treat their own people like animals - send them to Allah, with as little pain as possible. Unfortunately it is not our way. Too bad.
 
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=special&c=3&s=bivens_wtc_20010916

Vengeance will be enacted and it may or may not be our downfall. What can we do now? Appreciate the unity we have and do not take for granted that which brought us together as a nation.
I'm hoping that this is provision for a window through which we can improve the American psyche.

As Americans we need to stop scraping EVERY LAST penny out
of each other with the want for excess that only leads to frailty.
This has the benefit of moral, security, frugal, and independent gain. Our dwindling virtue can be reigned in by making the effort, taking the step that our society has grown lazy and loathe to do. What work ethics have we when we're only absorbed with ourselves? We do not strive for advancement of everyone, and so we cannot call ourselves good or noble. We are selfish, vain, untrue, wasteful, unconcerned, desensitized. We have the ability to do so much more, but without enough people to push we are lost to a cause that could well thrust us into moral and social might.
Who truly desires peace in the world when they strive only to make a buck or two off of another's misfortune? How can we say we represent a peaceful society when we are becoming the evil we "shun"?
If you do not feel you fit this description than you should have all
the more reason to accept it and actively endorse it. We are not in a null point in time. We cannot alienate ourselves and continue to exist. It is our obligation as excelling individuals to hold aloft our ideas and stick to them.
It is well hoped that we have a learned a lesson in all this, and as a serious affliction on a personal level can cause us to shake off old and bad habits, we need to shake off this inhumane philosophy of life. Man is mostly good, when he receives good.
We cannot imagine the scope of a necessary change until it is too late. We feel helpless against the universe, and those who have power often sooner abuse it than use it for benefit.
If one voice urges you toward something that does not go against your philosophy, and you can see the end merit, then you consider it and later forget it. In the same case, if two voices urge you towards something, your inclination to agree is
thus doubled, and so on. So if there is merit in a plan what harm is there in respecting it?
Our greed, as humans, Americans, indeed as creatures of reason, is our eternal downfall. As soon as we recognize the future value of an object as it pertains to us we takes necessary steps to make it so. At the same time, if we can recognize the future value of a plan that affects us, but society too, we see an inconvenience. We are addicted to direct gain. Relax in that.
There are isolated times, in which we give and somehow soon forget how good it makes us feel to have made a difference; and there is the rara avis who consistently gives to others. How sad it is to see these kind people get burnt out by society's steel face!
Everyone feels that they are excluded in this, and certainly they are in many cases, but if you feel that you are truly moral there is no reason to fault yourself. If you recognize your faults, do not be
ashamed, merely better yourself and know it's betterment.
Throughout human history what have stories and religions preached? Goodness, virtue, giving, recognition of a greater good, acceptance, patience. What did the protagonists in those stories gain? Favor by gods or people, fuel for a soul's fire, RESPECT.
Who is instilled after watching a hero movie to go and do good himself? Who cheers when a despicable character is thwarted?
We are moving towards peace as a race, but very slowly. There is less real-time adventure out there with everyone focusing on their private lives, bobbing about in the margin of our social efforts. Where have the voters gone? Where have the intense and moral debates gone? They all stay at home because they have no respect for "society" and its evils, yet in their recluse they are perpetrators of it.
I urge all to understand that they are themselves heroes as long as they perform heroic actions. This is not initially dynamic action, but it is action toward good nonetheless. Let this heroism shine through in these times and let us keep the momentum in wake of the crime that brought us together.
Humans will never fully agree on something unless they can see how directly it affects them. I see tons of calamity and hatred with intention here, in traffic, in the coldness of people. Brusque dismissals and icy stares proliferate and it shames me.
We have a peaceful society, and for that I'm proud; but our society is run by money, personal gain, and power games.
What notion of peace can we truly reach when we use this formula for our foundation? What can change it? You.
 
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