Accident: Convinced she was a bear

[Enmos]

Kill all the animals you want if you are going to eat the meat, are not going to adversely affect the balance of the ecosystem and are not going to kill some poor bastard hiking through the woods.

The two bold parts are in direct contradiction with each other given our sheer population size.

 

[one_raven]

The two bold parts are in direct contradiction with each other given our sheer population size.

They don't have to be.

 

[Enmos]

They don't have to be.

How so ?

 

[one_raven]

Proper wildlife management, education and respect for the domain an life of animals.

 

[Enmos]

Proper wildlife management, education and respect for the domain an life of animals.

But "Kill all the animals you want if you are going to eat the meat" means wildlife management cannot interfere only advice.
Also I think that "respect for the domain and life of animals" is a bit of an unrealistic expectation.. sadly.

 

[one_raven]

But "Kill all the animals you want if you are going to eat the meat" means wildlife management cannot interfere only advice.

I don't have a problem with hunting if you are eating the food, hunting responsibly (meaning ecologically) and hunting safely.

Also I think that "respect for the domain and life of animals" is a bit of an unrealistic expectation.. sadly.

On the part of individuals, yes that would be unrealistic, but not on the part of wildlife management and rangers.

 

[Enmos]

On the part of individuals, yes that would be unrealistic, but not on the part of wildlife management and rangers.

If the demand would be, as you suggest, that hunting has to be ecologically responsible, hunting will be virtually outlawed imo.

 

[Vkothii]

No rules - give out free guns and ammunition to everyone so there's no black market, or even a market; it will be like in the old days: kids, old blind people, whoever, and let them wander around anywhere they like (you're going to argue with someone holding a gun?).
That way, the animals will all get shot or run away, and they'll start shooting each other instead - which is what they all really want to do anyway.

P.S. there are probably fewer humans per sq. mile in this country than in America, but hunters still kill other hunters here, or seriously wound them. It's all down to target identification.

A guy who killed his hunting buddy a couple years back said he was certain he saw deer antlers, a brown coat, etc. But he dropped his mate with a .273 bullet, some use .303 rounds for pigs - those razorbacks and Cpt, Cookers have real tough hides .

 

[Orleander]

Sure don't answer, just act dumb instead.
And as Asguard said, fishing doesn't have to involve killing the fish. And no deadly weapons are placed in underage peoples hands.

so you're not against killing animals, you're against guns.

 

[Enmos]

so you're not against killing animals, you're against guns.

I'm not against killing animals for good reasons such as direct self-defense or an immediate need for food.
I am against free use of guns, yes. And especially by teenagers.

 

[Orleander]

If the demand would be, as you suggest, that hunting has to be ecologically responsible, hunting will be virtually outlawed imo.

They only give out as many licenses as the DNR deems ok. If there are 100,000 deer, they aren't going to give out 75,000 licenses. And there are hunting organizations that push for clean air, wetlands, prairie....
If the environment isn't there, the animals aren't either. Hunters don't wipe out species. Poachers do. BIG difference.

 

[Orleander]

...I am against free use of guns, yes. And especially by teenagers.

is that poaching and canned hunting?
My family started hunting at about middle school age. Started with rabbits, grouse, pheasants, then moved up to deer, antelope, elk. Considering we had been helping butcher chickens and pigs, it wasn't a big stretch to hunt a rabbit.

 

[Enmos]

They only give out as many licenses as the DNR deems ok. If there are 100,000 deer, they aren't going to give out 75,000 licenses.

How many deer can you shoot on one license ?

And there are hunting organizations that push for clean air, wetlands, prairie....

Sure.. to redeem themselves..

If the environment isn't there, the animals aren't either. Hunters don't wipe out species. Poachers do. BIG difference.

What exactly is the difference ?

 

[Enmos]

is that poaching and canned hunting?

Can you explain the term "canned hunting" to me, and how this question relates to what I said ?

My family started hunting at about middle school age. Started with rabbits, grouse, pheasants, then moved up to deer, antelope, elk. Considering we had been helping butcher chickens and pigs, it wasn't a big stretch to hunt a rabbit.

How did you help butcher chickens and pigs ? Are you sure it's not just an excuse ?

 

[Orleander]

How many deer can you shoot on one license ?

One. And you have to pay for it. If you want 3 deer you have to buy 3. Some states only allow 1 per person, depending on the deer population. There were times my family had 5. My Mom, Dad, 2 brothers, 1 sister all got them.


Sure.. to redeem themselves..

Redeem themselves from what? I don't think anyone in my family cares about teh environment and its impact on animals due to bunny guilt. :bugeye:


What exactly is the difference ?

The difference is hunting a deer to eat and hunting an animal to chop off its hands for an ashtray. My family hunts to eat and to bond. Poachers kill because they can. Early eauropean hunters would be considered poachers in my book. Wiping out buffalo, passenger pigeons, etc.

I think you judge what you don't know.

 

[Orleander]

Can you explain the term "canned hunting" to me, and how this question relates to what I said ?

free use of guns. I don't understand that term. Are you talking about poaching (illegal) or canned hunting (legal, but not well thought of by hunters). Canned hunting is where an animal is raised in an enclosure, fattened up, and then set free in a larger enclosure. Then it is hunted.


How did you help butcher chickens and pigs ? Are you sure it's not just an excuse ?

Chickens - Take a hatchet and chop off the head. Or grab teh head and swing it around, breaking it's neck
Pig - slit its throat, letting it bleed to death.

Both of those animals cost money to raise. Rabbits are free food if you don't count th ecost of a bullet. Deer is cheap food because you have to buy the license.
What do you mean by 'an excuse'?

 

[Enmos]

One. And you have to pay for it. If you want 3 deer you have to buy 3. Some states only allow 1 per person, depending on the deer population. There were times my family had 5. My Mom, Dad, 2 brothers, 1 sister all got them.

Fair enough.
Can I ask what the joy is in killing a defenseless animal ?

Redeem themselves from what? I don't think anyone in my family cares about teh environment and its impact on animals due to bunny guilt.

From blood lust ? Or maybe they just want to keep the environment healthy so they can keep hunting..

The difference is hunting a deer to eat and hunting an animal to chop off its hands for an ashtray.

So what's the difference ? Both kill animals unnecessarily.
Poachers kill to sell parts of the animals. Maybe they do it to eat as well ?

My family hunts to eat and to bond.

You don't need to hunt to eat. And you certainly don't need to hunt to bond either..

Poachers kill because they can. Early eauropean hunters would be considered poachers in my book. Wiping out buffalo, passenger pigeons, etc.

Uh.. they had to hunt to survive.. besides they didn't have a clue what impact it would have on the environment, we do now.

I think you judge what you don't know.

Nope.

 

[Enmos]

free use of guns. I don't understand that term. Are you talking about poaching (illegal) or canned hunting (legal, but not well thought of by hunters). Canned hunting is where an animal is raised in an enclosure, fattened up, and then set free in a larger enclosure. Then it is hunted.

Either..

Chickens - Take a hatchet and chop off the head. Or grab teh head and swing it around, breaking it's neck
Pig - slit its throat, letting it bleed to death.

Hrm.. I misunderstood.

Both of those animals cost money to raise. Rabbits are free food if you don't count th ecost of a bullet. Deer is cheap food because you have to buy the license.

Does that make it ok, that it's free food ?

 

[Orleander]

Fair enough.
Can I ask what the joy is in killing a defenseless animal ?

Defenseless? You mean like chicken and cows? The animals we hunted ran or flew. We didn't always get an animal.

From blood lust ? Or maybe they just want to keep the environment healthy so they can keep hunting..

Blood lust? Do you think we stripped naked and rolled around in the blood and guts? What movies have you been watching?!

And yeah, what's wrong with keeping the environment healthy to keep hunting? Not a bit different than keep the water clean to keep fishing. Its FOOD!

So what's the difference ? Both kill animals unnecessarily.
Poachers kill to sell parts of the animals. Maybe they do it to eat as well ?

Maybe they do. From pictures I've seen that doesn't happen often. And if you eat the animal, you are not killing it unnecessarily.


You don't need to hunt to eat. And you certainly don't need to hunt to bond either..

Don't need to hunt to eat? You didn't grow up poor. And you don't NEED to hunt to bond, just like you don't NEED to fish to bond. But it is a very nice by-product of hunting. At least it was in our family.


Uh.. they had to hunt to survive.. besides they didn't have a clue what impact it would have on the environment, we do now.

We ???? no, I don't think you do.


Nope.

We are never gonna agree on this. You sit on your ivory tower eating mass produced factory grown chicken and feed lot cows judging those who eat deer.
Native Americans have as much access to grocery stores as I do. Is it ok that they hunt?

 

[Enmos]

Defenseless? You mean like chicken and cows? The animals we hunted ran or flew. We didn't always get an animal.

How is that not defenseless ?
And you didn't answer what joy of it is..

Blood lust? Do you think we stripped naked and rolled around in the blood and guts? What movies have you been watching?!

Oh.. is that what blood lust is ?
Non-answer number 2..

And yeah, what's wrong with keeping the environment healthy to keep hunting? Not a bit different than keep the water clean to keep fishing. Its FOOD!

It's food ? They are primarily living breathing beings like you and I..
When you shoot them do you think they feel it just like a human would ?

Humans got to the point that they do not have to hunt to gain food.

Maybe they do. From pictures I've seen that doesn't happen often. And if you eat the animal, you are not killing it unnecessarily.

If you eat the animal that doesn't mean you didn't kill it unnecessarily.. for someone that has enough money to buy food at the store it just means that they are stingy, or like killing animals.

Don't need to hunt to eat? You didn't grow up poor. And you don't NEED to hunt to bond, just like you don't NEED to fish to bond. But it is a very nice by-product of hunting. At least it was in our family.

If you are poor and cannot afford to buy meat at the store, I won't say anything about you hunting for food.
But you are not poor. You can go to the store and buy your meat there. You do not need to hunt for it.
It apparently has become a habit..

We ???? no, I don't think you do.

Huh.. is this were I should go "lmaorotf" ?

We are never gonna agree on this. You sit on your ivory tower eating mass produced factory grown chicken and feed lot cows judging those who eat deer.

A tiny fraction of what you eat dear.. and I rather eat farm bred animals then wild ones.

Native Americans have as much access to grocery stores as I do. Is it ok that they hunt?

No.