Absolutely Nothing: Atheists on What They Know About What They Pretend to Discuss

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https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12052-007-0001-z

Evolution as Fact, Theory, and Path

Introduction
With its vocabulary of hundreds of thousands of words, one might expect English to boast a surplus of ways to express different concepts. Indeed, there are many well-known examples of multiple descriptors for the same item or idea, often one or more from the Germanic and others from the Latinate roots of modern English. In addition to the diversity resulting from a history of linguistic hybridization, English has a tendency to assimilate words from other languages and to include the de novo creation of terms as the need arises. Thus, most technically complex professions exhibit a plethora of neologisms and jargon that can be all but impenetrable to nonexperts. Science is certainly no exception in this regard.

However, when it comes to some of the most fundamental concepts in science, there is a dearth of unambiguous terminology. Worse still, words with relatively clear meanings in the vernacular are employed with very different definitions in science, a phenomenon that greatly confuses discussions of science when they are conducted in nonscientific contexts. For example, terms such as “energy” or “force” have specific meanings in physics that are easily confused when commingled with their common usages. This ambiguity has been exploited to considerable advantage by many a huckster who falsely invokes the respectability of science in the sale of products that would, in actuality, contradict well established scientific principles if they really exerted any of their claimed effects.

Even more generally, terms relating to the process and products of science itself, such as “theory” and “law”, are almost diametrically opposite in scientific vs vernacular settings. This has been a source of both honest confusion and intentional obfuscation in discussions of science, especially with regard to evolution—which has, with the full thrust of equivocation, been misleadingly labeled as “just a theory” by opponents for decades. The intent of this article is to clarify the general meaning of some central concepts in science and the terms used to describe them, and to differentiate these from the very different definitions of the same words in common usage. The specific application of these terms, as defined in science, to the topic of evolution will be discussed in some detail.

Defining Terms
Hypothesis, theory, fact, law. Prefaced with “hunch” or “guess”, this list of terms would reflect what many people consider a graded series from least to greatest degree of certainty. This ranking may be appropriate in common usage, but actually makes little sense when these words are employed in a scientific context.

Fact
“Fact” is perhaps the only term in the above list whose common and technical definitions are similar. The major difference is in the degree of certainty expressed, which is simultaneously higher and lower in scientific usage. Following the definition provided by the US National Academy of Science (NAS) (1998), one of the most prestigious scientific societies in the world, a scientific fact is “an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed, and for all practical purposes, is accepted as ‘true’.” Or, as Stephen Jay Gould (1981) put it in his inimitable style, “In science, ‘fact’ can only mean ‘confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent’.” It is this insistence on repeated confirmation by data—either through direct observation or reliable inference—that makes a claim to “fact” so much stronger in science. However, as the NAS points out, “truth in science is never final, and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow”. Small-scale details are regularly revised as more precise observations are made, whereas well established facts of fundamental significance are very rarely overthrown, but in principle, no scientific fact of any magnitude is beyond revision or refutation. As a result, scientists must maintain a balance between the confidence that comes from reinforcing conclusions about the world with repeatable data and the understanding that absolute certainty is not something that the methods of science are able or intended to deliver.

Theory
The common and scientific definitions of “theory,” unlike of “fact,” are drastically different. In daily conversation, “theory” often implicitly indicates a lack of supporting data. Indeed, introducing a statement with “My theory is...” is usually akin to saying “I guess that...”, “I would speculate that...”, or “I believe but have not attempted to demonstrate that...”. By contrast, a theory in science, again following the definition given by the NAS, is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.” Science not only generates facts but seeks to explain them, and the interlocking and well-supported explanations for those facts are known as theories. Theories allow aspects of the natural world not only to be described, but to be understood. Far from being unsubstantiated speculations, theories are the ultimate goal of science.
much more at link....
 
Contrary to popular belief, I have read most of what you put forward. Most of them have been here for years, like the talk origin one.
Why should we believe that? I mean you have been kicking up a stink because I accused you of changing definitions, but I have no shown that to be fact...one which so far you have not answered.
I don't believe you.
I don’t see any facts. It is presumed to be a fact.
The presumptions cannot be tested, or observed. A lot of it doesn’t make sense. Not only to myself, but most other people.
When it comes to explanations, the goalpost shifting is through the roof.
Everything you deny or have a problem with has been verified, accepted and supported by evidence over more then a hundred years. And now you come along and believe the rest of us have been taken for a ride?? Typical fanatical, ID behaviour.
 
I’m just curious why so many people think it is a science fact.
Because the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive.
I don’t think there is evidence. I’m sorry if that is offensive, but I am being totally honest.
There is nothing that has been presented, where I have to admit, (even to myself)that it is evidence.
Sometimes excess baggage and an agenda brainwashed into a mind since childhood, is hard to overcome. Plus of course that nice, warm cuddly feeling, knowing that death is not going to be final.
But I think I know where the idea of the theory of evolution came from. If I can find the source, I will definitely create a new thread for discussion.
JUst make it a reputable source, not some crazy ID or creationist site.
Here you go again, telling me where and howls I get information.
Why don’t you leave me out of it?

Try and leave me out of it.
Because you do know what you’re talking about.:rolleyes:
You, and only you, have made it essentially about you, due to some dishonesty, plenty of obtuseness, , and redefining definitions to bolster your agenda.
 
But in response to the quote.
You presume all scientists accept the theory.
I’m afraid you’re mistaken,
Again this has been explained to you.Are you not reading anything contrary to your stance? wHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?
There is no discipline or subject in the world that has ever had 100% backing and support...we still have ratbags believing in a flat Earth...some reject the BB...some, just a few, also reject evolution and Darwinism...This is just more fanatical creationist nonsense undertaken by someone with their arse to the wall.
 
Why should we believe that?
Because I told you.
Why else?
because I accused you of changing definitions, but I have no shown that to be fact.
Are you that the post previous to this one, shows that I am changing definitions?
I don't believe you.
Why?
Everything you deny or have a problem with has been verified, accepted and supported by evidence over more then a hundred years.
Huh???
Was information in dna verified 100 years ago?
No?
Then stop talking nonsense.:D
And now you come along and believe the rest of us have been taken for a ride??
A Freudian slip no doubt.
I’m simply asking you to explain what it is about darwinism that allows you to think it is a scientific fact.
Typical fanatical, ID behaviour.
:D
 
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Sometimes excess baggage and an agenda brainwashed into a mind since childhood, is hard to overcome.
So far, I think that essentially applies to you, rather than me. I suppose some folk need to told what is what. That’s why I think your belief is more like a religion, than science.
Because the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive.
Obviously not, otherwise every scientist would accept it. Not all do.
JUst make it a reputable source, not some crazy ID or creationist site.
You’re not in a position to tell me what is, and what is not reputable. You can’t even explain your own belief.
I’ll use whatever site I see fit.
 
Jan Ardena:

Contrary to popular belief, I have read most of what you put forward.
I don't believe you.

Most of them have been here for years, like the talk origin one.
I don’t see any facts. It is presumed to be a fact.
The presumptions cannot be tested, or observed. A lot of it doesn’t make sense. Not only to myself, but most other people.
The facts are simple, Jan. There is a fossil record. There is a genetic record. There is a geological record. There is an anatomical record. There is the observed distribution and diversity of life on Earth. And so on an so forth. All of this is evidence. Conclusions can be drawn from the evidence.

The theory of evolution, like all scientific theories, is an overarching explanation of the evidence. It makes sense of the evidence. It explains why the evidence is what it is. More than that, it successfully predicts what we will see when we do certain experiments, or make certain observations.

You say you don't see any facts. So you deny that there is a fossil record, and all that? I don't think you do. What you assert, instead, is that you have a superior theory has the same explanatory and predictive power as the theory of evolution, only your theory involves special creation of "kinds" by a supernatural deity.

You say the theory of evolution cannot be tested. You are wrong. It can be tested. It has been tested. Every time somebody digs up a new fossil the theory of evolution is tested.

Can your Creationist theory be tested? To some extent, yes it can be. For instance, if your particular creationist theory advocates for the existence of a worldwide flood as the mechanism for creating the fossil record, then that theory has been tested and conclusively debunked. Can we test whether your God created life with a word? No, we cannot, which is what makes that part of the theory non-scientific.

You claim that evolutionary theory doesn't make sense. It's hard to comment when you give no details about what you find nonsensical about it. All I really get from that statement of yours is a sense of your general aversion to the idea, most likely shored up by your lack of suitable qualifications or prior knowledge to enable you to understand certain aspects of it. It is strange that, instead of trying to learn more so that you can understand it, you are instead content to simply assert that it is wrong, with no reason other than your prejudice.

You assert that evolution makes no sense to "most other people". Above, I have given you statistics from polling. The most likely reason you feel this way is that you mix with the wrong people.

What I do comprehend, isn’t evidence, it’s an explanation of existing evidence. Which funnily enough, every person I know, understands on some level.
Consider the theory of gravity. Observed fact: the moon orbits the Earth. Theoretical explanation: gravity holds the moon in orbit.

Consistent with your attitude to evolution, you would presumably hold that there's no evidence that gravity holds the moon in orbit. You'd say that gravity is an explanation of existing evidence, not evidence itself, or something confused like that. You'd perhaps argue that gravity isn't a "scientific fact" but "just a theory". You'd argue that there are "presumptions" in the theory of gravity. Would you go so far as to assert that the theory of gravity can't be tested? Do you refuse to accept it because nobody can serve up the "fact" of gravity itself to you, but only facts that are explained by the theory?

Is this your attitude to the whole of science, or is there something special about the theory of evolution that makes you single it out for the application of a double standard?

At what level do you think everyone will be able to comprehend it, the same way they comprehend evolution (micro)?
See, when you write that kind of thing I just sort of throw my hands up in the air and roll my eyes. The reason is that you have just confirmed, once again, that you don't really understand the theory. You have been told time and again that there is no real distinction between micro- and macro- evolution; that's a creationist ploy. If you understand how evolution works, speciation is just one more step of micro-evolution, not really different from any other step.

In other words, the answer to your question is: if you understand microevolution, then you understand macroevolution. If you think there's a difference, then you don't understand evolution.

Here’s another reason I sort of got tired of discussing with you. You’re always trying to sum me up. Most of the time you are mistaken.
From memory, most of the time when you have linked to another site in support of one of your notions about evolution, it has been a creationist or religious source rather than a reputable scientific source. I sum you up based on observed behaviour.

I don’t believe people on the basis that they are an expert, unless it essential, and I don’t have a choice.
Then if it matters to you, become an expert yourself. Study up!

On the other hand, I don't believe you. It's not that you don't believe experts. It's more that the people you regard as experts - at least on the matter of evolution - are either not experts at all (in many cases) or else not experts you should believe (because they are presenting a biased and dishonest view deliberately).

Darwinism isn’t essential for me, and I don’t have to believe in it.
Of course. You can go on living in that bubble of unreality you have created for yourself. It makes you feel good, so why not? In the end, the person you'll harm the most is yourself.

On the other hand, I don't believe you (again). I think your disbelief in "Darwinism" is essential to you, or else you wouldn't bang on about it as much as you do. People who don't have much knowledge about topics don't usually make a point of preaching their point of view on that topic to others repeatedly and persistently. I believe that, on the contrary, it is important to you that "Darwinism" be false. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because a belief in "macro-evolution" would threaten your belief that human beings are specially created by your God and separate from the "lower" animals. You need to feel special, and evolution challenges that belief in a way that you find unacceptable.

I don’t think there is evidence. I’m sorry if that is offensive, but I am being totally honest.
I can only draw two conclusions:

(1) Your religious blinders are such that you refuse to look; and/or
(2) You don't understand how to evaluate evidence.

I'm being totally honest.

But I think I know where the idea of the theory of evolution came from. If I can find the source, I will definitely create a new thread for discussion.
It came from Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace. Mind you, if they hadn't come up with the insight, somebody else most likely would have got there sooner or later. Not to downplay their contributions in any way, but evolution was an idea whose time had come. The lead-up to the theory was an extensive effort made across a civilisation to collect evidence in the natural world. Once enough evidence was there, the explanation was bound to become obvious to unbiased observers.

I don't know what you're referring to. Maybe the Bhagavad Gita has its own theory of evolution?
 
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Because I told you.
Why else?

As I have told you many times, you are dishonest, you misinterpret and you redefine words as I have shown.

Are you that the post previous to this one, shows that I am changing definitions?

Yep, you know the one...in big bold red letters, where you ignorantly said "Atheism itself implies God exists" at post 965, and that's without wasting time searching through your nonsense as a whole, in this thread.
Dishonesty and changing definitions to bolster your mythical beliefs.

Huh???
Was information in dna verified 100 years ago?
No?
Then stop talking nonsense.:D

Stop being dishonestly obtuse...It's been a gradual process over the years with fossil records etc, until now fact.

A Freudian slip no doubt.
I’m simply asking you to explain what it is about darwinism that allows you to think it is a scientific fact.

You have that answer, and essentially it is because science has shown it so. Or do you suggest I take the word of any Tom, Dick or Harry, or anyone that has already been shown to be ignorant of Darwinism, dishonest , obtuse, and redefining words to suit his agenda at the drop of a hat.
:D
Jan this is a good video if you ignore the references to a designer. Very short.


Alex
Nice simple reasonably detailed video Alex.[/QUOTE]
 
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So far, I think that essentially applies to you, rather than me. I suppose some folk need to told what is what. That’s why I think your belief is more like a religion, than science.
The evidence points to you Jan, as the impressionable follower and acceptance of myth, and the fact that you will go to any lengths, including dishonesty, attempt at redefining words and obtuseness, to support your unsupportable nonsense.
Obviously not, otherwise every scientist would accept it. Not all do.
Not at all....No discipline in the world has ever had 100% support . Even in the year 2020 we still have nuts claiming the Earth is flat. But I told you that this morning. So is this more dishonesty? If it is dementia, please inform me and I'll go somewhat easier on you.:(
You’re not in a position to tell me what is, and what is not reputable. You can’t even explain your own belief.
I’ll use whatever site I see fit.
Sure I am!!! I support the logic and sensibility of science and the scientific method, and even more obvious is the fact that Alex has detailed in a couple of videos, re the beliefs, claims, nonsense and craziness of an assortment of nutty pastors/preachers and con men. Are these some of the links you had in mind? Would you also like me to direct you to those dishonest, disgusting excuses for human beings?:rolleyes:
 
Hi Paddo
I think Jan, having put on such a performance asking for stuff, and not having a thing to say about the little video indicates he is clearly just trolling.

It hurts me to reach that conclusion but Jans lack of response indicates that he did not bother to even look let alone initiate any discussion.
I am very patient with him and respectful to him but he seems unable to take my little joke and is now going to sulk...but I did get a backstabber award..how immature is that..clearly it hurt him which is the only thing that saddens me.

However on the bright side passers by get to learn about Dawinism on the one hand and the rather dubious behaviour an IDer displays in order to maintain their unsupportable position...and the thoughtless behaviour of the Christian cult who will not fit into sensible community rules for the common good by ignoring calls to help minimise the spread...

I think Q had came close to the truth of the matter with his observation that Jans ego is in the mix.

And I can understand how deflating it must be to be outwitted by a couple of old blokes like us without even getting to the pointy end of discussion but why let ego hold you away from learning how we have such a diversity of species and gaining an understanding that folk from thousands of years ago did not have and were forced to make up fairy tales to explain what we now know to be fact.


Maybe I was too harsh quoting Bill Maher and his turd in the pool thing but really what a good way to see it...

I was somewhat upset hearing that Christian cult fool say folk who died because of the virus deserved it because they denied god. Sadly that dog is representative of the callers on that program.

Jan no doubt does not realise he is with a mob that has a very bad look.

The sky has cleared and hope to get some astronomy in tonight.

I must say I have really enjoyed the way both you and James brought Jan to heel but sadly I doubt if he learn much other than he won't get away with trolling.
Alex
Alex
 
You say you don't see any facts. So you deny that there is a fossil record,
I said I don’t see anything that makes the idea of one type of animal turning into another, a scientific fact.
Now I know you can’t show anything, other than people saying it is a fact. But maybe you can explain what makes it a scientific fact, for you.
You say the theory of evolution cannot be tested. You are wrong. It can be tested. It has been tested. Every time somebody digs up a new fossil the theory of evolution is tested.
So the fossil record itself, is evidence that one type of animal turns into a different type.
Is that what you’re saying.
What you assert, instead, is that you have a superior theory
Where have I asserted this?
No, we cannot, which is what makes that part of the theory non-scientific.
Can we agree that a theist is a person who believes in God. Not a person who necessarily hypothesises God created the world. I have not put forward any such.:rolleyes:
It's hard to comment when you give no details about what you find nonsensical about it.
Do the research yourself.
Once this crisis is over, just go out one day and randomly ask people who accept darwinism as a scientific fact, what makes them think it is such. You will find that they can regurgitate information. Other than that, they have nothing to say about it.
Above, I have given you statistics from polling.
Alex and Paddoboy would be on that list. But do not have a clue as to what makes it a fact. They can only regurgitate.
Consistent with your attitude to evolution, you would presumably hold that there's no evidence that gravity holds the moon in orbit.
I’m a bloke. I can only concentrate on one subject at a time.
You'd perhaps argue that gravity isn't a "scientific fact" but "just a theory".
I haven’t looked into it.
Plus I don’t care whether or not it’s a fact.
I interact with whatever it, 24/7.
I don’t care what shape the planet is. Because it makes no difference to me.
Is this your attitude to the whole of science, or is there something special about the theory of evolution that makes you single it out for the application of a double standard?
I don’t put darwinism in the category of science fact. It seems to be a philosophy tagged on to a fact. I’m wondering if it is even necessary, other than as a philosophy.
You have been told time and again that there is no real distinction between micro- and macro- evolution; that's a creationist ploy. If you understand how evolution works, speciation is just one more step of micro-evolution, not really different from any other step.
James. Whether or not , I am using a “creationist ploy” shouldn’t be of any concern to you. The truth of the matter is, you cannot show “macro evolution” occurs. You can only infer it. But the inference do not add up. Maybe they did in Darwins time, but they don’t now.
https://youtu.be/xQgOjHsMEeE
If you think there's a difference, then you don't understand evolution.

I take it that applies to scientists as well.:rolleyes:
Aren’t you tired of saying that.
Hasn’t it occurred to you that maybe darwinism is not the mechanism?
That’s why you can’t explain it, so you piggy/back it on the end of something that is true? A bit like how a virus works.
Or Cuckoos.
From memory, most of the time when you have linked to another site in support of one of your notions about evolution, it has been a creationist or religious source rather than a reputable scientific source. I sum you up based on observed behaviour.
It shouldn’t matter where I get my information from. You should just respond to the point.
Then if it matters to you, become an expert yourself. Study up!
Experts come under fire, even lose funding, or their jobs, for exposing darwinism. So that’s no solution.
On the other hand, I don't believe you.
You don’t believe anybody, even scientists,that doesn’t accept darwinism.
It's more that the people you regard as experts - at least on the matter of evolution-are eithernot experts at all (in many cases) or else notexperts you should believe (becausetheyarepresenting a biased and dishonest viewdeliberately).
That’s like a Christian saying you should not believe Islam. The “No true Scotsman” fallacy.
Of course. You can go on living in that bubble of unreality you have created for yourself. It makes you feel good, so why not? In the end, the person you'll harm the most is yourself.
If darwinism is true, all realities are true.
But how am I harming myself by lacking a belief in darwinism?
On the other hand, I don't believe you (again). I think your disbelief in "Darwinism" is essential to you, or else you wouldn't bang on about it as much as you do.
Can we use that logic for those who bang on about religion, and God, all the time.
"Darwinism" be false. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because a belief in "macro-evolution" would threaten your belief that human beings are specially created by your God and separate from the "lower" animals.
How do?
You keep saying (in the past) that darwinism can be accepted, whole remaining a theist.
Unless you don’t mean it.:rolleyes:
I don't know what you're referring to. Maybe the Bhagavad Gita has its own theory of evolution?
As does the bible, as does most scripture. Not only do they all relate to each other, they relate to the observed facts, on some level.
But I was referring to something more specific.
Where it can be shown that that the idea was taken from there, or it is a coincidence that was watered down to purely natural mechanisms.
 
near outta toilet paper
Inul.jpg

Ask my trusty assistant how many rolls you would like her to pick for you

I did read that the person who stated computer tablets would replace paper changed his mind when he tried to wipe his fundamental with a iPad

Don't be a mathematician and work out with a pencil

Cheers

:)
 
Hi Paddo
I think Jan, having put on such a performance asking for stuff, and not having a thing to say about the little video indicates he is clearly just trolling.
Posting Christian Leaders saying stuff is not the topic of conversation.
It hurts me to reach that conclusion but Jans lack of response indicates that he did not bother to even look let alone initiate any discussion.
One discussion at a time is what I can manage.
I am very patient with him and respectful to him but he seems unable to take my little joke and is now going to sulk...but I did get a backstabber award..how immature is that..clearly it hurt him which is the only thing that saddens me.
You’re funny Alex.
That’s why I like talking to you.
However on the bright side passers by get to learn about Dawinism
That’s the point Alex, there is nothing to learn.
Objective passers by will note that the only thing on the table, are assertions that it is a fact. They will not know why it is a fact. At least not through reading the posts.
I think Q had came close to the truth of the matter with his observation that Jans ego is in the mix.
It takes ego to overcome false ego.
And I can understand how deflating it must be to be outwitted by a couple of old blokes like us
:D:D:D
from learning how we have such a diversity of species
How did it happen?
Some experts don’t accept the current model.
So maybe you could at least explain how you know it did?
Maybe?
Jan no doubt does not realise he is with a mob
The mob is on here.
50 pages and no one can explain why they personally see it as a fact. Only regurgitations of the same claim.
I was somewhat upset hearing that Christian cult fool say folk who died because of the virus deserved it because they denied god.
So was I.
 
Again this has been explained to you.Are you not reading anything contrary to your stance? wHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?
No need to shout.
There is no discipline or subject in the world that has ever had 100% backing and support..
Nobody mentioned “backing or support”.
Can’t you read?
I’m talking about acceptance.
All scientists accept facts.
All scientists accept evolution, because it is a fact.
Not all scientists accept accept the darwinian model, as an explanation for the facts.
If it was a fact, like evolution, the fact that is accepted, by most probably everyone in the world, there would be no question of acceptance.
You got that?
we still have ratbags believing in a flat Earth...some reject the BB...some, just a few, also reject evolution and Darwinism...This is just more fanatical creationist nonsense undertaken by someone with their arse to the wall.
 
No need to shout.

Nobody mentioned “backing or support”.
Can’t you read?
I’m talking about acceptance.
All scientists accept facts.
All scientists accept evolution, because it is a fact.
Not all scientists accept accept the darwinian model, as an explanation for the facts.

Yes, they do. The only ones who don't are creationists like yourself who deny the facts, but since that is an extremely small minority, they can be ignored as having a religious bias.
 
No need to shout.
Your dishonesty and gullibility are reasons enough.
Nobody mentioned “backing or support”.
Can’t you read?
I’m talking about acceptance.
All scientists accept facts.
All scientists accept evolution, because it is a fact.
Not all scientists accept accept the darwinian model, as an explanation for the facts.
If it was a fact, like evolution, the fact that is accepted, by most probably everyone in the world, there would be no question of acceptance.
You got that?
No not all scientists would accept evolution, and/or Darwinism because as I have just explained to you, ratbags exist in every field.
"we still have ratbags believing in a flat Earth...some reject the BB...some, just a few, also reject evolution and Darwinism...This is just more fanatical creationist nonsense undertaken by someone with their arse to the wall."
And you yourself have shown the dishonesty you will stoop to to erroneously defend your own position on myth and other supernatural nonsense... not to mention the redefining of words to suit your agenda, and other assorted "qualities" often attributed to religious/IDer fanatics.
 
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Posting Christian Leaders saying stuff is not the topic of conversation.

Perhaps however they certainly show examples of folk who don't know much about anything.
You are, happily, embarrassed it seems to realise the pool you swim in is full of turds.
But ok let's forget all the videos but this one.
It is a concise summation of all you want to know, it explains the matter in a simple manner and you will find it easy to follow, moreover it explains the various lines of evidence, which is what you asked for isnt it? I know you asked for my words so lets us head off that reply.

Will you look at this video?
Will you discuss this video?
Will you demonstrate that you are not merely trolling?
Time to show us who you want to be.
Please don't chose the way of the troll pushing an evil cult.

One discussion at a time is what I can manage.

OK make it a discussion on the little video.
I am sure Paddo, James and Q will be happy to suspend all discussion if they see you acknowledging that you have watched the video and presenting points from it for sensible discussion.
You’re funny Alex.
That’s why I like talking to you.

I find you funny also Jan and like talking to you because you can be as flippant as myself. I have learnt not to expect a serious approach from you and that is why I am rarely disappointed or upset with, what others find, frustrating tactics.

I do enjoy slipping one in now and then when you least expect it But sincerely I wish when I reach my mark you did not get so hurt as that is not my intention.

Anyways I just hope we get to discuss the video.

That’s the point Alex, there is nothing to learn.

You will change your tune when you watch the video.

Objective passers by will note that the only thing on the table, are assertions that it is a fact. They will not know why it is a fact.

Perhaps do not underestimate the wealth of material for students of psychiatry as you provide one of the rare examples of a smart and reasonably inteligent IDer.

And also for debaters who, up to this point, before seeing your excellent performances here, thought they could not shine if put on a side to argue the inarguable. You now doubt will provide a roll model for lost causes in general.

It takes ego to overcome false ego.

It's perhaps wise to leave all ego at the door if you are pretending to discuss science but certainly on a personal level I sympathise with the problem, you recognise, and are clearly wrestling with. But don't be embarrassed to seek professional help your difficulties are nothing to be embarrassed about.

Your mind has in effect been taken over by a subtle but terrible form of cruel indoctrination, we all see it and honestly you have made my day to think you are starting to see there is a problem.

Your ego turns helpful comments and observation presented to help you into insults such that you with a jerk of the knee find yourself rejecting facts and solid science..a false ego is causing that primitive response ... but remember we are here to help..that group of cronies filling your head with ID only want you to be as deluded as them..you are better than that Jan..I believe in you and will help you escape the evil that has enslaved your body and poisoned your mind.
One step at a time and you can beat it.

How did it happen?

You don't know how happy I was when I found that video that will answer that question for you. Today is your lucky day. Enlightenment is near. I feel like a parent waiting for their child to open a present that contains that gift the child has always wished for..I am truly excited Jan...go ahead open it.

Some experts don’t accept the current model.

In science that is allowed but for them to get anywhere climbing the ladder of credibility they need to provide a better model and the neat thing is we all look forward to a better model. Look at gravity and how Newton presented a wonderful model and then unbelievably along comes a rank outsider who presented a better model which is now the best model. Neat isn't it.

The mob is on here

No not this mob.

The crazy bunch where you get your crazy ideas from.

The mob here only wants to free you from ignorance and superstition.... the ID mob want to rob you of your ability to reason and ability to learn about how the world works today.

The mob here wants to transport you from ancient superstition into the modern thinking, caring world..The mob here want to take away your fear of hell and subservience to a made up entity. The mob here wants what is best for you not what is best for the cult.

So was I.

Terrible but here's the thing....That idiot is who you allow to represent you. That is who people think about when you align yourself with the cult...they dont see Jan as I do, intelligent and worthy of respect, they see the multitudes of crazy folk threatning hell and rolling on the floor in convultions talking gibberish thinking they are in touch with the creator of the universe.

They see you as the fool with your hands on the TV under the influence of an evil con man intent of not only robbing you of your cash but the little dignity you may have left or to steal any that you may have gained from talking to rational people like those here intent of saving you from the cult.

You are on the wrong side Jan.

Your mind is clouded no doubt but listen to me, you have to fight hard to escape ..weigh what I say with what they say and ask yourself honestly which makes sense.
Alex
 
That’s the point Alex, there is nothing to learn.
That's just another creationist lie. You have continually tried to bolster your flagging agenda, by attempting ridiculing myself and Alex, for as you put it, "regurgitating", when factually, it is you regurgitating a faith based mythical claim about some magical sky daddy.
Adding to the general stupidity of your 50 pages of unsupported, myths,, claims, lies and misinterpretations of facts and definitions, is the fact that unlike your creationist views, science is always changing as observations improve, as technology allows for more critical experiments, etc, theories do change, or are modified, or like Darwinism and the theory of evolution of life, is further bolstered and validated to the overwhelmingly acceptance as a fact.
That's the opposite to your claims of nothing more to learn, particularly when your own position is no better then mine or Alex's with regards to the knowledge and facts re Darwinism. Difference though with Alex's and my own acceptance of the facts as borne out continually over near a century, is your own total denial, excuse making, changing and altering of definitions, and dishonesty with regards to those facts, as dictated by your overlords and ID baggage.
Objective passers by will note that the only thing on the table, are assertions that it is a fact. They will not know why it is a fact. At least not through reading the posts.
And then the choice is theirs! If they chose to actually delve into the reasons Darwinism and theory of evolution are facts, they will find them and know why. Irrespective anyway, as per the links I have given, they will find those reasons on site, in this thread, in between your posts reflecting your irrational denials and preaching.
It takes ego to overcome false ego.
More to the point is the fact that science will always overcome mythical unsupported regurgitated nonsense that you spew.
:D:D:D
How did it happen?
Some experts don’t accept the current model.
So maybe you could at least explain how you know it did?
Maybe?
Like I have already explained to you twice now...there are always idiots and ratbags, even so called educated ones, that have another agenda. And again, no discipline is ever 100% accepted.
The facts of Darwinism and theory of evolution, is overwhelmingly supported by the overwhelmingly greater percentage of scientists and other professionals in the field.
The mob is on here.
A mob of one!!!:D
frame-picture-id926268564

50 pages and no one can explain why they personally see it as a fact. Only regurgitations of the same claim.
50 pages of unsupported preaching and mythical propaganda in denying the facts as presented by expert professionals in the field is inane, stupid, and requires substantial dishonest regurgitations to continue arguing against those presented and verified facts.
So was I.
Yet you are just one step below that fool...
 
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