Abortion

[Lori_7]

That's such a load of crap! And indicative of how you judge your own natural sexuality. The definition of a slut is 'an untidy and dirty woman' and an 'adulteress'. Suffer from misogyny much?

No Lori everyone isn't 'needy' and 'weak' we all have our weaknesses which is something else all together. Again you are projecting your own experiences unto others. Women are no longer so stupid as to rely on fairy tales as a templet for reality. The fairy tale is not that of the righteous man but 'prince charming'. There are many prince charming's around but that doesn't make them honorable. There are many honorable men around and if you haven't found one that's a shame but there are many women who will dump an asshole faster than he can find the door and will only choose the kind of men they are deserving of. Booty calls on the other hand don't count, its just a sex thing

Fairy tales say nothing of communication or intimacy or loving a woman as she is. It says a lot about judging their mate by beauty, it says a lot about female chastity and innocence and sitting around weak and helpless waiting for some guy to come and save you. Its the fairy tale that probably kept you from meeting an honorable man. Here's a clue, he won't be riding in on a white horse.

i got him. i met him here on sciforums, and yeah, he was riding a motorcycle, not a horse. :shrug:

and honey, i'm the dirtiest girl i know. lol...

i don't hate people or myself, i hate what's wrong with us that makes us suffer. why? because i love us.

 

[Lori_7]

That's such a load of crap! And indicative of how you judge your own natural sexuality. The definition of a slut is 'an untidy and dirty woman' and an 'adulteress'. Suffer from misogyny much?

No Lori everyone isn't 'needy' and 'weak' we all have our weaknesses which is something else all together. Again you are projecting your own experiences unto others. Women are no longer so stupid as to rely on fairy tales as a templet for reality. The fairy tale is not that of the righteous man but 'prince charming'. There are many prince charming's around but that doesn't make them honorable. There are many honorable men around and if you haven't found one that's a shame but there are many women who will dump an asshole faster than he can find the door and will only choose the kind of men they are deserving of. Booty calls on the other hand don't count, its just a sex thing

Fairy tales say nothing of communication or intimacy or loving a woman as she is. It says a lot about judging their mate by beauty, it says a lot about female chastity and innocence and sitting around weak and helpless waiting for some guy to come and save you. Its the fairy tale that probably kept you from meeting an honorable man. Here's a clue, he won't be riding in on a white horse.

oh, and booty calls are for losers.

 

[StrawDog]

and?

(I mean one could just as easily parent offspring in the usual fashion)

So where is the visible hand of your creator? In the lab or in the bed? :m:

 

[lightgigantic]

I see free-will as a flaw because for 1 thang... it has lead to horrible sufferin for children... which you seem to justify dew to you'r desire for said "free-will"... an the fact that we (humanity) have done horrible thangs to children speeks for itself as far as the inevitability of such specific bad decisions bein included in All-knowin Gods creaton plan.!!!

actually an absence of free will wouldn't remove such suffering - it would just render one incapable of determining it (or anything) as good, bad or moderate

Not everone rapes or has the desire to rape children... which is irrlevent to the fact that children have been raped by full growed adults... which is an exceptable trade-off to you in exchange for us havin free-will... but it ant exceptable to me... an un-like you... i had druther God not have created the universe if it ment that even 1 child woud suffer such horrors as rape/torure starvaton... ect... ect.!!!

what I am playing up here is your use of the word "necessary"
For instance do you think it is necessary for people to rob banks?
(or do you think such actions reflect an individual's recourse to action amongst a host of other choices?)

Good for you... an i also dont find such thangs necesary... but unfortunately thats irrelevent to the fact that because of Gods plan lots of children are horribly abused on a daily basis.!!!

Actually the plan is for us to have free will (which , on the flip side , enables for an assessment of goodness too .... something you don't appear to have noused) .... and part of that plan is to relegate the off the wall stuff to the material world (ie a world where one participates in something like a virtual world, assuming different personalities to play out their inconsequential dramas)

Clearly you'r adament about rationalizin Gods plan which made it inevitable that children woud be abused (but for God... no child woud have ever been abused)... but whats the pay-off... that you will eventualy get to live wit Jesus... an if so... what do you thank woud be so grate about it... which makes you seem oblivious to the suffern of children as long as you get what you want.???

I think part of the problem is that you think taking birth as a child means that one takes birth with a clean karmic slate ... which is part of what is solved by attaining spiritual perfection - namely the ability to see one's self distinct from t he body that one is awarded due to material desire

 

[lightgigantic]

So where is the visible hand of your creator? In the lab or in the bed? :m:

in the allocation of a specific living entity to a specific body (in a specific environment) of course

 

[glaucon]

well sure ... and its the nature of discussions on ethics to establish one view as superior or another as inferior (regardless of the vox populi)

Well, again, I would have to disagree...

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
O oK... like you lived thru havin an aborton an now you realy know its the rong thang to do... so in 1 reincarnated life-time or anuther... does God want all women to esperience havin an aborton so they will have acheived real knowledge about aborton.???

i don't know. but i suppose that if he did, then we would.

Well you said God created us flawed cause he wants us to gane true knowledge... an the only way to do that is to make bad choises an then esperience the result of those bad choises... but now you ant sure if God wants all women to be knowledgable about aborton.???

Well... sinse you now say its up to God who has abortons... do you wonder why God wanted you have true knowledge about aborton.???

 

[StrawDog]

so its not clear how adopting a particular means to bring life into the world places a checkmate on ideas of its appearance (in a particular species, womb/petrie dish or environment) being governed by superior forces

In reverse engineering reproduction much of the prior mystery that seemed to suggest the hand of G_d has been unravelled and de-mystified. Thus where you may see a visible (but not really) and divine hand, I may see the freckly gnarly (and visible) hand of a scientist.

So, regarding the sanctity of life relating to abortion, is relegating a 10 day old lab grown fetus to the incinerator considered to be murder?

 

[Lori_7]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
O oK... like you lived thru havin an aborton an now you realy know its the rong thang to do... so in 1 reincarnated life-time or anuther... does God want all women to esperience havin an aborton so they will have acheived real knowledge about aborton.???



Well you said God created us flawed cause he wants us to gane true knowledge... an the only way to do that is to make bad choises an then esperience the result of those bad choises... but now you ant sure if God wants all women to be knowledgable about aborton.???

Well... sinse you now say its up to God who has abortons... do you wonder why God wanted you have true knowledge about aborton.???

no, not really. i just know i do. and i don't think you actually have to be the one who makes a bad choice to experience the result of it. people's bad choices effect other people all the time. especially children, cause they don't really get a choice most of the time.

 

[glaucon]

So, regarding the sanctity of life relating to abortion, is relegating a 10 day old lab grown fetus to the incinerator considered to be murder?

Indeed. This is precisely the heart of the problem. How, and when do we grant this supposed 'sanctity'?

 

[Lori_7]

Indeed. This is precisely the heart of the problem. How, and when do we grant this supposed 'sanctity'?

to butt in...what about a sanctity for nature itself? for the natural process, causes, and outcomes? if anything, and ironically, wouldn't science support that?

 

[Lori_7]

how twisted is it exactly that we're artificially inseminating, growing babies in test tubes, and at the same time, killing them in mother's wombs?

it's at the very least inefficient.

 

[StrawDog]

it seems pretty obvious to me that women make a conscious decision or choice to produce the embryo in their body. if you really don't want an embryo in your body, then why in the hell do you purposefully act in such a way that it's nearly inevitable?

why isn't celibacy ever an option? and why isn't responsibility and choice ever a consideration up front?

Of course this makes perfect sense. But why is the sexual drive hard wired to be so incredibly powerful that for millions and millions of normal folk, at times, it is unstoppable? (enter baby)

I mean, G_d could have helped us out by making sex a lot less pleasant?

 

[glaucon]

to butt in...what about a sanctity for nature itself? for the natural process, causes, and outcomes? if anything, and ironically, wouldn't science support that?

I don't understand what you mean.

"Sanctity" is a religious word; it has no sensible application beyond that scope.

 

[glaucon]

how twisted is it exactly that we're artificially inseminating, growing babies in test tubes, and at the same time, killing them in mother's wombs?

it's at the very least inefficient.

Not twisted at all. It's just 'twisted' from a twisted perspective...

 

[Lori_7]

Of course this makes perfect sense. But why is the sexual drive hard wired to be so incredibly powerful that for millions and millions of normal folk, at times, it is unstoppable? (enter baby)

I mean, G_d could have helped us out by making sex a lot less pleasant?

speak for yourself man, i love sex just the way it is! lol...if anything god could make it even better.

in my mind, it's impossible to isolate this issue in regards to the way we live our lives, and our values, as a whole. everything influences everything else, and it all compounds exponentially. i'm an idealist. i wouldn't envision changing this one thing, everything else remaining constant. i can though envision god blowing the whole thing up and starting over again though with a select group of people who are committed to change.

 

[Lori_7]

Not twisted at all. It's just 'twisted' from a twisted perspective...

well it is inefficient, and if i'm not mistaken the inefficiency is determined by some form of morality. funny...

 

[StrawDog]

how twisted is it exactly that we're artificially inseminating, growing babies in test tubes, and at the same time, killing them in mother's wombs?

it's at the very least inefficient.

Sadly, Lori, a lot of this knowledge was initiated, gathered and stimulated in medical attempts to help woman who could not naturally conceive, no matter how much they loved G_d. :m:

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

i got him. i met him here on sciforums, and yeah, he was riding a motorcycle, not a horse. :shrug:

and honey, i'm the dirtiest girl i know. lol...

i don't hate people or myself, i hate what's wrong with us that makes us suffer. why? because i love us.

Finding a mate on the internet is for losers If you want to judge things from a purely puerile point of view.

Interesting. I don't consider anything I do sexually as being 'dirty'. The christians really fucked you up didn't they. I mean what is 'dirty' exactly? Fellatio? Anal? Kissing? Pouring honey over yourself? What makes a sex act dirty? But you don't need to answer any of that as you reveal more than you probably would like to...which is why I call you neurotic. Dirty indeed! You speak about suffering but you seem to be the only one who's afflicted.

 

[Lori_7]

I don't understand what you mean.

"Sanctity" is a religious word; it has no sensible application beyond that scope.

well it's a value for life, or of life, and i was suggesting that if you could assign one to an individual person, you could also assign one to the natural process itself, and ironically, not interfere with it.