Abortion

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

it's a lot better than the sub-standard bullshit that most people settle for.

and i would argue that it's better than having to have your child sucked out of your womb, chopped into pieces, and thrown into a garbage can. i think so anyway.

and why doesn't celibacy amount to good sense for most? what are the reasons?

Substandard? I've never resorted to celibacy and yet I have never had an abortion. It seems that you continue to project the feelings you have for yourself on others. Most people are quite able to make these decisions for themselves and they don't need a neurotic such as yourself telling them how to live.

You know all about having a child sucked out of your womb and continue to project those feelings unto others. I have known quite a few women who have had an abortion but they do not outweigh the number of women I know who have never needed an abortion while also never needing to be celibate. The ones who have had an abortion are exceptionally well adjusted and do not angst over their choices.

Sorry you are not as fortunate.

 

[Lori_7]

Ugh. Lori still appears in people's quotes...

Lori, I'm neither selfish, nor irresponsible with others' safety, or I'd get me a fucking motorbike and my Aspergery malfunctions be damned. So cut your moral judgements please. There are far nobler people out there than you who do a LOT for other people and still are neither celibate nor willing to have a child. What does that make them, then?

i'm not judging people, and i don't recall ever saying anything about morality except that it's a bunch of man-made bullshit. i'm not segregating myself from anyone else here as far as morality, or behavior, or anything other than a perception and an opinion based upon it.

 

[Lori_7]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...does it feel a bit odd to you... to worship a God who intentionaly created us so flawed that we woud murder our children.???



Then you mus thank thers a good reason for God creatin us the way he did... what is it.???

knowledge. do you know now? do you make choices based on what you know?

ISN'T THAT COOL??

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

i'm not judging people, and i don't recall ever saying anything about morality except that it's a bunch of man-made bullshit. i'm not segregating myself from anyone else here as far as morality, or behavior, or anything other than a perception and an opinion based upon it.

You call them sluts and murderers and them claim you are not judging anyone? That's what I call a self-rigtheous hypocrisy!

 

[glaucon]

I guess from your position it would make life simpler if all ethics required was taking a vote

No need; that's all ethics is.

It's silly absolutist thinking like yours that unnecessarily complicates issues like these.

...methinks thou dost protest too much....

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

why does it make me a prude?

and i could have sworn we've been citing all over this thread that these measures fail, resulting in abortions. right??



it puzzles me when people arbitrarily accuse me of lying because they don't like, or agree with what i'm saying. you have absolutely no reason to call me a liar. you know that right?

i was celibate definitely by choice, and it had to due with circumstances, but a hectic schedule wasn't one of them. it's not hard to get laid...for me anyway.

Well its prudish to refuse yourself a sex life when there are other means of protecting yourself. These measures sometimes fail but they don't fail so often that you wind up pregnant, I and a great number of women are living proof of that. I didn't say you lied, I think you delude yourself and you are unaware of your own neurosis.

So your celibate bully for you but its not an option for the majority of people.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Maybe people should never drive, even if they're responsible, even if they never drink then drive and always stay below the speed limit. And if they do they're irresponsible shits.

Lori, your attitude makes me want to vomit.

 

[Lori_7]

Substandard? I've never resorted to celibacy and yet I have never had an abortion. It seems that you continue to project the feelings you have for yourself on others. Most people are quite able to make these decisions for themselves and they don't need a neurotic such as yourself telling them how to live.

i'm not neurotic and i'm not telling people how to live. i've already addressed that multiple times.

You know all about having a child sucked out of your womb and continue to project those feelings unto others. I have known quite a few women who have had an abortion but they do not outweigh the number of women I know who have never needed an abortion while also never needing to be celibate. The ones who have had an abortion are exceptionally well adjusted and do not angst over their choices.

having a child sucked out of your womb isn't a feeling, it's a medical procedure.

the vast majority of people who are closest to me (loved ones) have had abortions, or have agreed with a woman to abort their child. all of these people are very well-adjusted. i don't know if angst is the right word for it, but from what they have conveyed to me, all of them attest to it being a very disturbing experience, and most of them just try not to think about it.

Sorry you are not as fortunate.

no you're not. give me a break.

 

[Lori_7]

Maybe people should never drive, even if they're responsible, even if they never drink then drive and always stay below the speed limit. And if they do they're irresponsible shits.

Lori, your attitude makes me want to vomit.

no need to vomit, or be dramatic.

maybe you're right...maybe people shouldn't drive. we could put the oil companies out of business, clean up the atmosphere, get some exercise.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...does it feel a bit odd to you... to worship a God who intentionaly created us so flawed that we woud murder our children.???

no

Then you mus thank thers a good reason for God creatin us the way he did... what is it.???

knowledge.

Thats interestin... but please esplane what you mean by that answr.???

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

i'm not neurotic and i'm not telling people how to live. i've already addressed that multiple times.



having a child sucked out of your womb isn't a feeling, it's a medical procedure.

the vast majority of people who are closest to me (loved ones) have had abortions, or have agreed with a woman to abort their child. all of these people are very well-adjusted. i don't know if angst is the right word for it, but from what they have conveyed to me, all of them attest to it being a very disturbing experience, and most of them just try not to think about it.

No you are not, give me a break

Being unaware of your own neurosis doesn't mean you are not a neurotic its simply means you are in self-denial. To note so far you call women who have had sex and gotten pregnant sluts and murderers which is a total projection on your part since you had sex and then went ahead with an abortion. You are one of the few here who actually characterize women in this way, in short its more an indication of how you feel about yourself and has nothing to do with others. Perhaps your celibacy is a kind of punishment, a sort of self-suffereing, self flagellation type thing, who knows. A way to 'purify' yourself or something.

I haven't met a woman who felt disturbed by their abortions but I am sure there are those that do but this is besides the point. I've been on dates that I find disturbing but I don't rail against men or dating.

The 'feelings' I refer to are yours. Your insistence that others are somehow, ignorant, irresponsible, slutty murderers. Your insistence that celibacy is somehow a reasonable choice in a world of many choices. The medical procedure is being carried out every day and yet women go on with their lives, have children later when they are ready and are not wringing their hands and putting on a chastity belt. Funny that.

Actually I do feel sorry for you. I do think that you are unreconciled with your decisions. That is unfortunate.

 

[Lori_7]

You call them sluts and murderers and them claim you are not judging anyone? That's what I call a self-rigtheous hypocrisy!

everybody's a slut to some degree or another...even if it's only in their imagination.

when i said substandard i was referring to the quality of the majority of sexual relationships i've witnessed, my own included. i think we should all be more picky but in reality we're needy and weak. come on, most young ladies are cured of the fairy tale before they're out of grade school. what's the fairy tale? a righteous man who will love them for exactly who they are, as a whole person, forever and ever. complete and unbridled intimacy that is achieved through complete and unbridled honesty and commitment. communion.

i know...that's ridiculous right?

 

[Lori_7]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...does it feel a bit odd to you... to worship a God who intentionaly created us so flawed that we woud murder our children.???



Then you mus thank thers a good reason for God creatin us the way he did... what is it.???



Thats interestin... but please esplane what you mean by that answr.???

that the only way to achieve real knowledge is through experience. you can get an idea otherwise, but there's only one way to really know. to live through it.

 

[lightgigantic]

No need; that's all ethics is.

hardly, since its also partnered with a constant dialogue on what one should vote (and who should give the final verdict on the discussion .... if you want to get into the hows and whys of it trickling down to society in general)

 

[glaucon]

hardly, since its also partnered with a constant dialogue on what one should vote (and who should give the final verdict on the discussion ....

Thank you for proving my point.

lol

???

...if you want to get into the hows and whys of it trickling down to society in general)

Yes, I'm afraid we're going offtopic here. The nature of Ethics would entail a much larger discussion in and of itself.....

Though you must admit, with respect to this particular topic, one's ethical assumptions will play a role in how one views the situation....

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...does it feel a bit odd to you... to worship a God who intentionaly created us so flawed that we woud murder our children.???

No

...you mus thank thers a good reason for God creatin us the way he did... what is it.???

that the only way to achieve real knowledge is through experience. you can get an idea otherwise, but there's only one way to really know. to live through it.

O oK... like you lived thru havin an aborton an now you realy know its the rong thang to do... so in 1 reincarnated life-time or anuther... does God want all women to esperience havin an aborton so they will have acheived real knowledge about aborton.???

 

[Lori_7]

Being unaware of your own neurosis doesn't mean you are not a neurotic its simply means you are in self-denial. To note so far you call women who have had sex and gotten pregnant sluts and murderers which is a total projection on your part since you had sex and then went ahead with an abortion. You are one of the few here who actually characterize women in this way, in short its more an indication of how you feel about yourself and has nothing to do with others. Perhaps your celibacy is a kind of punishment, a sort of self-suffereing, self flagellation type thing, who knows. A way to 'purify' yourself or something.

i don't think it's neurotic to suggest that people be accountable and responsible for their sexual acts and their children, but you're entitled to your opinion. it's my opinion that you're being a bit neurotic here, with all of your arm-chair diagnoses and unfounded suppositions about me.

funny...i would have described my celibacy as more of a reward than a punishment. but a reward doesn't describe it either. it just made sense for me. you know, sense? i wanted more from a sexual relationship than what was made available to me at the time, and for all i knew, forever. and it didn't make sense to me to settle for anything less than that. i knew from experience that compromising on my ideal led to disappointment. see? it made sense.

I haven't met a woman who felt disturbed by their abortions but I am sure there are those that do but this is besides the point. I've been on dates that I find disturbing but I don't rail against men or dating.

i hate dating. lol...

The 'feelings' I refer to are yours. Your insistence that others are somehow, ignorant, irresponsible, slutty murderers. Your insistence that celibacy is somehow a reasonable choice in a world of many choices. The medical procedure is being carried out every day and yet women go on with their lives, have children later when they are ready and are not wringing their hands and putting on a chastity belt. Funny that.

people ARE ignorant, irresponsible, slutty, and murderous. those aren't feelings either. those are observations.

Actually I do feel sorry for you. I do think that you are unreconciled with your decisions. That is unfortunate.

don't feel sorry for me. fuck, i'm on top of the world right now. i haven't always been but we all go through trials, and ups and downs in life. i'm really happy right now, and i am absolutely reconciled with my decisions, and that didn't come from "just not thinking about it" either.

 

[Lori_7]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...does it feel a bit odd to you... to worship a God who intentionaly created us so flawed that we woud murder our children.???




...you mus thank thers a good reason for God creatin us the way he did... what is it.???



O oK... like you lived thru havin an aborton an now you realy know its the rong thang to do... so in 1 reincarnated life-time or anuther... does God want all women to esperience havin an aborton so they will have acheived real knowledge about aborton.???

i don't know. but i suppose that if he did, then we would.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

everybody's a slut to some degree or another...even if it's only in their imagination.

when i said substandard i was referring to the quality of the majority of sexual relationships i've witnessed, my own included. i think we should all be more picky but in reality we're needy and weak. come on, most young ladies are cured of the fairy tale before they're out of grade school. what's the fairy tale? a righteous man who will love them for exactly who they are, as a whole person, forever and ever. complete and unbridled intimacy that is achieved through complete and unbridled honesty and commitment. communion.

i know...that's ridiculous right?

That's such a load of crap! And indicative of how you judge your own natural sexuality. The definition of a slut is 'an untidy and dirty woman' and an 'adulteress'. Suffer from misogyny much?

No Lori everyone isn't 'needy' and 'weak' we all have our weaknesses which is something else all together. Again you are projecting your own experiences unto others. Women are no longer so stupid as to rely on fairy tales as a templet for reality. The fairy tale is not that of the righteous man but 'prince charming'. There are many prince charming's around but that doesn't make them honorable. There are many honorable men around and if you haven't found one that's a shame but there are many women who will dump an asshole faster than he can find the door and will only choose the kind of men they are deserving of. Booty calls on the other hand don't count, its just a sex thing

Fairy tales say nothing of communication or intimacy or loving a woman as she is. It says a lot about judging their mate by beauty, it says a lot about female chastity and innocence and sitting around weak and helpless waiting for some guy to come and save you. Its the fairy tale that probably kept you from meeting an honorable man. Here's a clue, he won't be riding in on a white horse.

 

[lightgigantic]

Though you must admit, with respect to this particular topic, one's ethical assumptions will play a role in how one views the situation....

well sure ... and its the nature of discussions on ethics to establish one view as superior or another as inferior (regardless of the vox populi)