Bells:
You have assigned things to me you shouldn't, put a lot of words in my mouth and continue to disregard valid arguments.
It's tiresome and annoying.
Please READ everything I say in this long post. Yes, it's long. But at least READ my stance instead of throwing so many assumptions at me. I shouldn't have to keep refuting your misconceptions over and over.
Some of my responses are frankly, curt and even angry at points. Sarcastic too. I'm tired of having to repeatedly clarify myself to someone who argues with ears (eyes)closed.
If you're going to supply a rebuttal-- At least ensure you have an accurate idea of what I'm saying as clearly as I can.
It is not yet deemed human, in that its survival that early in the pregnancy is yet unknown. In other words, a foetus does not get rights until it becomes viable (can exist or survive outside of the mother's womb). So what rights do you give something that does not yet exist or is not deemed human enough to exist?
Ok, this is where a line has been draw on a shade of gray. A compromise, if you will. That's all it is.
Should it have more rights than the mother?
Should anyone have more rights than anyone?
Should you, a stranger to me, have a say over the contents of my uterus?
Should you, a stranger to me, have a say over my taxes? My health plan? Whether or not I wear my seatbelt?
Gee, thanks. It's nice to see how you think fathers are nothing to a childs life.
Yeah, that was a good one, alright.
Do you think as a man, you should have a say in whether a woman has a child or not?
I absolutely think so if she is due to bear mine. And if you even TRY claiming men have no rights as a father, you best start googling up what courts think about that.
So long as the child grows in the woman's body, then the validity of ideas of people I don't even know means fuck all to me, sorry. In short, if I fall pregnant tomorrow to my husband, your ideas and opinion about whether I should keep it or not really don't factor into my decision.
If you're narrow minded enough, you can exclude ALL ideas except your own. But then, a person wouldn't really grow and develop that way, would they?
Nor would LG's. Why? Because your opinions aren't valid. You have no right to a say over what I do with my uterus.
I am not telling you what to do with your Uterus. Stay on topic.
If I want to remove my uterus tomorrow, my husband has no say in the matter.
And you have no say if he cuts off his man dangler?
I think you'de want to express your opinions to him and try to convince him not to.
Nor does he have a say in whether I want to have its contents removed.
The Uterus is not another human life.
Stay on topic.
Something even he recognised when I found out I was pregnant with our first child. His words to me were to the effect that whatever I decide to do, he was okay with...
That's him.
I am a different person and if I had a wife that was due to have a baby and wanted to abort, I WOULD try to convince her otherwise. Her idea would disturb me greatly and frankly- cause me pain.
MOST women I know would be happy to discuss their side, their reasons why they are thinking of abortion and would be open to hearing what I had to say on it, I'm sure.
I would NOT force her to carry the child to term. But I cannot help but think that if she heard my arguments and considered it carefully, she would have to have a very good and strong reason not to carry the child to term.
If she still chose not to at that point, I would have to let that go.
in short, he respected the fact that it was my decision alone,
Respect? Don't make it something it may not be. He may respect YOU, but that doesn't mean his choice to be Uninvolved with his child means he respects you.
even when I asked him what he wanted.
Shit. I'da told you straight up.
After reading some of the posts from some males on this topic, I have to say that I am thankful for marrying someone who respected me enough to trust for me to do what is right for me...
Oh whatever. I'm not buying that in the least.
He can respect and trust you fine- DOESN'T MEAN that he can never have his own opinion, wants or exspressions.
You're distorting his apathy on that topic into something else.
Because, if you deny someone the right over her body,
Dismissing all other bodies as if they do not exist to pander to her selfish wants...
then it becomes against her will if she wants to have an abortion and is not allowed to do so.
Allowing means LAW or that she's somehow FORCED.
I'm not advocating those.
I'm advocating discussion and encouragment and influence.
You mean she can only be flexible if she can be talked or persuaded to believing as you believe?
Whatever.
People CAN listen to other ideas and consider them. I do it all the time and I change my mind on occassion, too. You're continuing to paint inaccurate images just to validate your claim. It's annoying.
You can, as the father, state your opinion. But if you really respect her, then you should also respect her decision, regardless of what it is.
And she, as the mother, should respect mine enough to consider my points heavily, too. That is NOT infringment of rights, me telling her what to do, forcing her or lacking respect for her. So get over all the basic CRAP you're spewing.
But is it a life though? Can said life survive outside of her body? Or is it a potential for life? A mere possibility? She could miscarry 2 days later. A "life is at stake" during the whole of the pregnancy, if she chooses to go ahead with it. Pregnancy is not assured, nor is life assured.
She could. But natural ocurrances do not validate intentional ones.
I could get hit and killed by a drunk driver two days from now. Doesn't mean I can get drunk and go hit and kill someone.
Because I don't consider a 12 week old foetus to be a "life".
On this, you're right. I have a different stance--- But I can see and ACCEPT yours. I would not have any grounds, even through disagreement- to force or tell someone what to do with something that is not defined well.
However, to me, that lack of definition is a big part of why people can take such very different and opposing sides. That in itself is telling that it is not simple or cut and dry as you and others are trying to make it out to be.
Visit any hospital in the world and you will see just how much the focus is on the mother's life. If a pregnant woman is in an accident, her life is what is focused on and the baby's life is secondary. Always. Even in the process of giving birth, if something goes wrong, as I found out, the mother's life is primary and getting the baby out alive is secondary to the mother surviving. In other words, the doctors will strive to ensure the mother survives first, not the baby.
I have never disagreed with this.
Here is how I see it. You can be anti-abortion all you like. If that is the case, then you should not have an abortion. But what you deem to be right or not should not then be imposed upon other people.
Murder? Rape?
Seatbelts?
Whether your car is insured? Obamas Health Care Plan?
Like it or not- ideas ARE imposed on other people and when they are something you agree with being imposed- you are supportive of them.
The instant you demand that a woman do as you say,
I have never advocated this. Stop claiming that I have.
or the very moment that you deny someone the rights to their body or to decide for themselves, you are infringing upon that individual's rights.
That is not the case with abortion. You are dismissing the other Body. Pretending it lacks existence TOTALLY in order to support your claim.