Aboriginal child abuse and the NT Intervention

this is absurd. frag asked a straightforward question....

"I don't know if the Native Australians had developed agriculture before the conquest, but every time I ask that question no one replies so I assume that they did not, and that classifies them as a Paleolithic culture."

....and bells seamlessly segues into a justification for genocide? jesus fucking wept! :D

Learn to read, you twat.

Jesus fucking wept indeed.

My 5 year old has a better understanding of these issues than you do and has a better grasp of the English language and reading and comprehension than you have.:rolleyes:

ahh
so you guys have delivered far more than promised? is that what you are asserting?
Again, learn to read.
 
i'll give you references.--you read and deliver a verdict
The consensus seems to be that the Native Australians probably performed some of the experiments which, in other regions, resulted in the successful invention of the technologies of agriculture (farming and animal husbandry). But due to the peculiarities of their situation, that success eluded them. I always assumed that the size of the continent must have been a major handicap.

Agriculture was first invented in the North Africa-Eurasia continuum, an astoundingly broad east-west zone. Any clever trick that was developed by one tribe could be fairly easily picked up by a neighboring tribe to the east or west because the climate was somewhat similar and the same species of animals and plants had a good chance of being raised there.

A north-south continuum is a tremendous barrier to agriculture. Plants and animals that thrive in one latitude may not be able to live at all ten degrees to the north or south. This is why it took so much longer for agriculture, and civilization, to take hold in the New World. The Olmec-Maya-Aztec hub of Neolithic technology was not able to extend northward beyond the Rio Grande or southward toward the Isthmus. The Inca had the same problem in their latitudinally-restricted zone. The only large animals available to the Inca for domestication were the camelids (the llama and its relatives)--wispy, cantankerous beasts whose females produce so little milk it's a miracle that their young survive. (The invention of dairy farming, an incredibly efficient source of high-protein food, is a tremendous step forward for primitive cultures.) The largest animal ever domesticated in North America was the turkey--nobody ever managed to herd bison, moose or mountain goats. The poor Olmecs actually managed to build a civilization without draft animals!

In Africa the north-south orientation was an effective barrier to the spread of agriculture. It was developed in the north (or perhaps brought there by Semitic migrants from Asia, we'll probably never know the answer to that riddle), but none of the knowledge that made it possible could be exported to the sub-Saharan region.

Australia was even worse off, not only because of its small size but the whimsical climate. Neolithic farming requires a reasonably reliable rainfall, and Australia just doesn't have it.

So the Native Australian culture was Paleolithic: Stone Age and "primitive." Nomadic hunter-gatherers simply do not develop the technologies and social constructs that are harbingers of civilization, for the very basic reason that they have no use for them.
 
Again, learn to read.


bells darling
macklin say one thing, scullion another
whom would you like me to believe?
can you provide more info on the 300 odd new houses that sprung out of the ground in the space of two months? where are they located?
 
The word "civilization" means, literally, "the building of cities." This is a Paradigm Shift in advancement from the Neolithic Era, since it required complete strangers to find a way to live in harmony and cooperation. This required the invention of government to maintain order among those strangers

And let's not forget the invention of hierarchical religion to maintain political allegiance to said government to begin with.
 
john pilger, a great white man, comments as well on the smear campaigns the racist aussies present as form of honest dialogue..

Most white Australians rarely see this third world in their own country. What they call here public intellectual prefer to argue over whether the past happened, and to blame its horrors on the present-day victims. Their mantra that Aboriginal infrastructure and welfare spending provide a black hole for public money is racist, false and craven. Hundreds of millions of dollars that Australian governments claim they spend are never spent, or end up in projects for white people. It is estimated that the legal action mounted by white interests, including federal and state governments, contesting Aboriginal native title claims alone covers several billion dollars.

Smear is commonly deployed as a distraction. In 2006, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's leading current affairs programme, Lateline, broadcast lurid allegations of sex slavery among the Mutitjulu Aboriginal people. The source, described as an anonymous youth worker, was exposed as a federal government official, whose evidence was discredited by the Northern Territory chief minister and police. Lateline never retracted its allegations. Within a year, Prime Minister John Howard had declared a national emergency and sent the army, police and business managers into Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory. A commissioned study on Aboriginal children was cited; and protecting the children became the media cry just as it had more than half a century ago when children were kidnapped by white welfare authorities. One of the authors of the study, Pat Anderson, complained: There is no relationship between the emergency powers and what's in our report. Her research had concentrated on the effects of slum housing on children. Few now listened to her. Kevin Rudd, as opposition leader, supported the intervention and has maintained it as prime minister. Welfare payments are quarantined and people controlled and patronised in the colonial way. To justify this, the mostly Murdoch-owned capital-city press has published a relentlessly one-dimensional picture of Aboriginal degradation. No one denies that alcoholism and child abuse exist, as they do in white Australia, but no quarantine operates there.

In August this year, the United Nations once again distinguished Australia with the kind of shaming once associated with South Africa. We discriminate on the basis of race. That's it in a nutshell. This time the UN blew a whistle on the so-called intervention, which began with the Howard government smearing Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory with allegations of sex slavery and paedophile rings in unthinkable numbers, according to the minister for indigenous affairs.

In May last year, official figures were released and barely reported.

Out of 7433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of four possible cases were identified. So much for the unthinkable numbers. Of course, child abuse does exist, in black Australia and white Australia. The difference is that no soldiers invaded the North Shore suburbs; no white parents were swept aside; no white welfare has been quarantined. What the doctors found they already knew: that Aboriginal children are at risk - from the effects of extreme poverty and the denial of resources in one of the world's richest countries.

The Northern Territory is where Aboriginal people have had comprehensive land rights longer than anywhere else, granted almost by accident 30 years ago. The Howard government set about clawing them back. The territory contains extraordinary mineral wealth, including huge deposits of uranium on Aboriginal land. The number of companies licensed to explore for uranium has doubled to 80. Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of the American giant Halliburton, built the railway from Adelaide to Darwin, which runs adjacent to Olympic Dam, the world's largest low-grade uranium mine. Last year, the Howard government appropriated Aboriginal land near Tennant Creek, where it intends to store the radioactive waste. The land-grab of Aboriginal tribal land has nothing to do with child sexual abuse, says the internationally acclaimed Australian scientist and actvist Helen Caldicott, but all to do with open slather uranium mining and converting the Northern Territory to a global nuclear dump.​
http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/documents/feb_23_08_mutitjulu_final_report.pdf

ABC clears ABC over Mutitjulu reports

The lie that built the NT intervention


Aboriginal Media Hoax

Racism & the Media
 
expanding on pilger's "end up in projects for white people"...

The Council of Territory Cooperation has questioned why up to $70 million cannot be accounted for in the latest financial records for a major Aboriginal housing program.

Northern Territory Department of Housing chief executive Ken Davies told a public hearing today that extra costs had come from establishing work camps, pre-ordering building supplies and start-up costs for the Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program.

Committee chair Gerry Wood rejected the argument and said that infrastructure comes out of a separate bucket of money.

He said he does not understand where millions of dollars have gone.

"We're concerned about some money that's out there which doesn't appear to have any sort of identification and it's somewhere between $20 and $70 million," Mr Wood said.

Mr Wood was told that the Territory Alliance would only be able to break down the finances when the project is completed in 2013 and until then taxpayers have to trust the money has been spent correctly​
'Millions unaccounted for' in housing program (Dec 14, 2010)
 
You know, Gustav... years ago, I believed there was a brain hiding in there somewhere. In spite of everything.

These last few, however, you've quite clearly demonstrated that this is not the case.
 
/devastated

i'll go blow out the empty space b/w my ears soon
in the meantime.....

is it true you... you....apartheid aficionados are paying the feral abos with flour and sugar again?
Aboriginal workers in the government’s $672 million Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program (SIHIP) are working for what amounts to half the dole plus rations. However, these workers are still being recorded as contributing to SIHIP meeting its employment target,​
Aboriginal housing program exploits Aboriginal workers (November 21, 2010)

Workers say they’re being ripped off under indigenous housing program (November 2010)

Aboriginal housing consultant Jim Davidson axed after criticism of federal program (August 19, 2009)
 
australiamapflag.jpg
 
bells darling
macklin say one thing, scullion another
whom would you like me to believe?
can you provide more info on the 300 odd new houses that sprung out of the ground in the space of two months? where are they located?

Nope and no idea.

john pilger, a great white man, comments as well on the smear campaigns the racist aussies present as form of honest dialogue..
And?

Seriously.. and?

Do you honestly think you're telling us something we don't know? As entertaining as you think you are, you're not telling us anything new. Believe me, you rampant posts are not revelations.

All I think when I read them is "and"...

So what now? What do you propose be done? Do you have solid examples where European settlers have managed to work this out? How about in your home country? How brilliantly well has the US Government been in handling these issues? Surely with your vast knowledge and experience of reconciliation and treatment of Native Americans, you can be a guiding light to us racist and murdering Aussies. "Ja"?

I mean, look at how well the US treats its minorities.. Katrina? Oh wait, no.. left them to die a painful death until the media shamed them to act, so that's a bad example..

Native Americans? Hmmmm..


Beyond the shadows of their ceremonial grounds, the Mattaponi people have lived here for centuries.What was once theirs, meaning 350,000 acres of land, has now been reduced to just over 100 acres.Their population has decreased by 90 percent and poverty levels on the reservation range from 30 percent to 40 percent, a considerably low statistic compared to other Indian Reservations in the country.

Native Americans rank the highest in unemployment and poverty rates, infant mortality and life expectancy. According to the 2009 Census Bureau, unemployment in Indian country ranks anywhere between 50 percent and 85 percent while in some reservations, nearly 90 percent of native people live below the federal poverty line. Indian reservations in the Midwest are plagued by alcoholism, domestic violence and teen suicide, all of it contributing to an epidemic of hopelessness within America’s indigenous populations.



(Source)


And if we want to break those figures down a bit, it becomes even more interesting.


So my comment to you is the same.. "And?"..
 
Is it a competition? What does the winner get?

Death?

Life?

A free move back to the country of your ancestor's origin?

Or the realisation that European settlement fucked up native people's around the world and harping on about this is just that, harping on. In other words, tell me something I don't know. Tell me how to fix this.. Tell me what can be done to make it better. Give some fucking suggestions instead of telling us what we already know as if it's some sort of prophetic revelation. It's not. We know that Governments have consistently failed and that equal rights does not exist for Aboriginal Australians.. the same applies to the US, Canada, New Zealand, etc.

My question remains.. 'Yes.. And?'.. What now?

Give me a realistic suggestion.. Tell me how to stop the violence and abuse. Tell me how to increase infant mortality rates and health care and education.. Tell me how to make sure their children attend school. Tell me how to get them off the dole and working or wanting to work. Tell me how to stop their children from having children before they even finish puberty. Start with that and then we'll see how we go.

Gustav has earlier suggested that all migrants to this country pack up and leave. Sure. But then what? We crowd back to our countries of origin, make claims there against any migrants who have moved to said countries, and then what? Do you think that will make the situation for Aboriginal Australians better? How so? Medical care? Who'll provide it?

Pay compensation? I am all for that. But will that make things better? No. We should know by now that throwing money at this situation won't make it better. So we pay them billions in compensation. What then? That still won't get them to force their children to attend school, nor will it improve their health care, etc. Those issues are core issues. So how do we deal with that? Do we tell them what kind of healthcare they should get or need? Well if we do that, we run the risk of sounding like racists telling people how to live. If we provide the health care as we provide it nationally, they accuse us of telling their children it's okay to have sex if they use a condom. Keep paying them welfare? Hmm yeah.. we can see how that's working out, don't we? Or should we show we care by sayint to them to drink themselves to death and sink further into poverty as alcoholism entrenches itself further. Provide educational programs about the dangers of their current lifestyle? Sure. How do you make sure they attend? How do you make sure their children are being fed and educated?

So the question remains the same.. 'And?'...

I'd like Gustav, since he has been so vocal about how racist we are, and the same for you actually, to provide examples of just how well it's going in your respective countries when it comes to poverty and in Gustav's case, when it comes to its native peoples.
 
Give me a realistic suggestion...

From what I have read of the report, I think the suggestions made by the experts were pretty much on the mark. However, why the NT was chosen for intervention makes little sense. The primary problem there is the failure of administrative action to fulfill their promises, to follow through and make good on what they are supposed to be doing. The primary problem seems to be that most people don't care. You can't really find a solution for apathy from the outside. This is something that Australians have to find within themselves
 
From what I have read of the report, I think the suggestions made by the experts were pretty much on the mark. However, why the NT was chosen for intervention makes little sense. The primary problem there is the failure of administrative action to fulfill their promises, to follow through and make good on what they are supposed to be doing. The primary problem seems to be that most people don't care. You can't really find a solution for apathy from the outside. This is something that Australians have to find within themselves

Yes..

And?

Again, tell me something I don't already know Sam?

So what now?

Fulfill the promises? Sure. What then?

Build all the houses and provide better health care? Sure. What then?

Will it get their children into schools? Will it stop domestic abuse and violence? Will that stop the dependence on the dole and welfare in general? Will it cure alcoholism? Will it get them into educational programs about why drinking is bad for the individuals and their families? Will it ensure the protection of their children and their culture?

We know the Government's schemes failed. So what now?

Where to now?

Can you give me examples of how other Western Governments have succeeded? How about in the US? Care to provide the success of their policies and actions to help Native Americans? I mean for Gustav to be so critical, well it would have to be because the US is so successful, right? How about in India? Successful? The poverty stricken people shoved behind 8foot high fences for the games were there for show? They're all actually rich people putting on an act? Yes? No?

My question remains.. 'Yeah? And?'... 'What now?'.. 'How do you fix it?'

You and Gustav have repeated over and over again what we already know. WE have told you we know all of this and even provided you with more information.. which you all ignored.. and kept repeating it over and over again. So what now Sam? Do you think we should fix it?
 
A free move back to the countries of your ancestors' origin?

FTFY - but once we pack everyone back into Africa, what's to be done with the other, now-uninhabited continents? I guess it can just be a race to see who can repopulate Australia first, much like the first time around.

Or the realisation that European settlement fucked up native people's around the world and harping on about this is just that, harping on.

That's not the topic - this thread isn't about issues from 200 years ago, when "European settlement" was an accurate name for what was occurring. We're talking about a settled country with its own nationality, and how privileged classes within that country relate to less privileged classes.

In other words, tell me something I don't know. Tell me how to fix this..

It seems to me that the implicit suggestion is that you stop behaving like colonialist settlers from 200 years ago.

It's weird - I'd thought that Australia was mostly past this sort of White Man's Burden colonialist perspective on the natives, what with the apologies a few years back and all. Guess that was just so much self-congratulatory PR.

Tell me what can be done to make it better.

How about the same approach we've used in the USA: let 'em operate casinos. That way they can make money and take care of themselves, make rich developer friends, hire hot-shot lawyers to pursue their land and water rights, etc. It's not a great solution, but it beats siezing and quarantining entire towns.

Tell me how to stop the violence and abuse. Tell me how to increase infant mortality rates and health care and education.. Tell me how to make sure their children attend school. Tell me how to get them off the dole and working or wanting to work. Tell me how to stop their children from having children before they even finish puberty.

LOL the way to start is to stop seeing them as a problem that you need to solve, and instead relate to "them" as equals... "us," even, since they share your nationality. How about a little self-determination instead of this patronizing imperialism?

Aren't you supposed to be black or something? Because this shit sounds like it was lifted directly out of some racist Rush Limbaugh spiel. I guess it was naive to expect that a black person would be sensitive to that kind of PC neo-racism...
 
I mean for Gustav to be so critical, well it would have to be because the US is so successful, right?

Non sequitur. It could very well be that Gustav has been sensitized to these issues by witnessing first-hand similar (or even, worse) problems at home.

Nice try on derailing this into a nationalist pissing contest, though.
 
You can't really find a solution for apathy from the outside. This is something that Australians have to find within themselves

However, the single most important factor which became the driving force towards a totally new dispensation in South Africa, was a fundamental change of heart. This change occurred on both sides which had been involved in conflict over decades.

It was not a sudden change, but a process - a process of introspection, of soul searching; of repentance; of realisation of the futility of ongoing conflict, of acknowledgement of failed policies and the injustice it brought with it.

This process brought the National Party to the point of making a clean break with apartheid and separate development - a clear break with all forms of discrimination - for ever.

Thus, we came to the point where we, as South Africans, could begin to bridge the generations of prejudice, enmity and fear which divided us. This process brought us to the negotiating table where we could begin to develop the frame of mind and frameworks for peace to which I referred earlier. They prepared the way for the new South African Constitution now being debated in Parliament. It inter alia provides for:

• the establishment of a rechtstaat, a constitutional system where the law - the Constitution and a Bill of Rights - will be sovereign;
• the protection of the basic rights of all individuals, communities and cultural groups through a Bill of Rights, in accordance with that which is universally acceptable;
• an independent Constitutional Court, that will act as the guardian of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights;
• clearly defined constitutional principles with which any future constitution will have to comply;
• a balanced division of functions and powers between strong provincial governments based on federal principles, and a strong central government and
• special majorities and mechanisms for constitutional amendments.

I believe that this transitional constitution provides a reasonable framework of agreements and rules, of checks and balances, which are necessary for peace in our complex society.

It ensures full participation in all fields of endeavour to all South Africans. It does not discriminate in any way on the basis of colour, creed, class or gender.
It contains all the major safeguards which all our communities will need to maintain their respective identities and ways of life. It also provides adequate guarantee for the political, social, cultural and economic rights of individuals.

I also believe that this framework for peace will succeed if we can now establish the frame of mind, to which I referred, which is necessary for peace - the frame of mind which leads people to resolve differences through negotiation, compromise and agreements, instead of through compulsion and violence. (de klerk)​

now
it is up to us, to get the aussies into that frame of mind. external pressure by way of condemnation, sanctions, disinvestment and whatnot.
ja, australia, a pariah nation. an outcast in the league of civilized nations

ps: in sa, there was no change of heart. niggers will always be niggers as far as whitey is concerned. attitudes did not change, practices did, for the simple reason that laws were made and enforced. and that, is the key
 
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FTFY - but once we pack everyone back into Africa, what's to be done with the other, now-uninhabited continents? I guess it can just be a race to see who can repopulate Australia first, much like the first time around.

Sarcasm.. It escapes you often?:rolleyes:

That's not the topic - this thread isn't about issues from 200 years ago, when "European settlement" was an accurate name for what was occurring. We're talking about a settled country with its own nationality, and how privileged classes within that country relate to less privileged classes.
And what do you think led to that? What is the direct cause?

Could it be.. possibly.. that the attitude from back then has carried through to today? Could it be remotely possible that the lack of empathy and lack of care about them as a people stems from what existed in the past? I don't know, could it?

It seems to me that the implicit suggestion is that you stop behaving like colonialist settlers from 200 years ago.
Me personally?

Okay..

But yeah.. and then what?

It's weird - I'd thought that Australia was mostly past this sort of White Man's Burden colonialist perspective on the natives, what with the apologies a few years back and all. Guess that was just so much self-congratulatory PR.
And?

What did you think it was? The apology was for the Stolen Generation. That's it. Nothing else. It was a highly political move.. A large portion of the country felt it was right to apologise for the removal of children from Aboriginal communities, many of which were placed in homes or foster care, some were adopted... along with many being abused and mistreated and ignored. The apology was a lovely gesture. But that was all it was. A gesture and the Rudd Government never went further than that gesture - aside from continuing some aspects of the previous Government's intervention measures in the NT. The current Government does not look to be changing.

A friend of mine commented a few weeks ago when we discussed the Gillard's Government's desire for education - computers in every school, blah blah.. And her comment was interesting from an Aboriginal perspective (she is Aboriginal).. 'Does Gillard expect the Koori kids to plug the fucking computers up their noses?'.. She referred of course to some schools in Aboriginal communities being so run down that the wiring is shot - and they don't have internet access.. So where would these schools be plugging those computers in? What about the NBN rollout that is planned for our supposed near future? As my friend joked, remote communities does not mean remote Aboriginal communities - and if they did roll it out there, it would be funny as shit since half the homes there are without electricity.

How about the same approach we've used in the USA: let 'em operate casinos. That way they can make money and take care of themselves, make rich developer friends, hire hot-shot lawyers to pursue their land and water rights, etc. It's not a great solution, but it beats siezing and quarantining entire towns.
So the reservations where they (Native Americans) live are...? What about the reduction in their landholdings? What's that exactly?

How about their conditions? Using the USA's approach is funny really, seeing that:

Beyond the shadows of their ceremonial grounds, the Mattaponi people have lived here for centuries.What was once theirs, meaning 350,000 acres of land, has now been reduced to just over 100 acres.Their population has decreased by 90 percent and poverty levels on the reservation range from 30 percent to 40 percent, a considerably low statistic compared to other Indian Reservations in the country.

Native Americans rank the highest in unemployment and poverty rates, infant mortality and life expectancy. According to the 2009 Census Bureau, unemployment in Indian country ranks anywhere between 50 percent and 85 percent while in some reservations, nearly 90 percent of native people live below the federal poverty line. Indian reservations in the Midwest are plagued by alcoholism, domestic violence and teen suicide, all of it contributing to an epidemic of hopelessness within America’s indigenous populations.


Those casino's must be working well, huh?

LOL the way to start is to stop seeing them as a problem that you need to solve, and instead relate to "them" as equals... "us," even, since they share your nationality. How about a little self-determination instead of this patronizing imperialism?
Or how about we "let 'em operate casinos".. You mean that kind of self determination?

Aren't you supposed to be black or something? Because this shit sounds like it was lifted directly out of some racist Rush Limbaugh spiel. I guess it was naive to expect that a black person would be sensitive to that kind of PC neo-racism...
I do happen to be black. My colour does not make the problems go away. So when Aboriginals talk of combating alcoholism and abuse and violence in their communities, when they talk about getting their children into schools, when they talk about getting access to equal health care and education, that's being racist? That report was Aboriginals asking how do do this and asking for help to help them achieve what we all consider to be the basic necessities of life.

As they advise themselves, throwing money at the problem is not enough. The Government has to step up and do what is right. But apparently that's racist in your opinion?

Apparently less racist is what the US has done, which you actually advised we do.. to "let 'em operate casinos".. and how successful is that again? Oh yes, that's right.. the stats for Native Americans in the US is worse than that of the Aboriginals in Australia. Funny shit right there..:rolleyes:
 
Sarcasm.. It escapes you often?:rolleyes:

Rarely. Maybe dig a bit for the point before trotting out the superficial dismissal, next time.

And what do you think led to that? What is the direct cause?

Could it be.. possibly.. that the attitude from back then has carried through to today? Could it be remotely possible that the lack of empathy and lack of care about them as a people stems from what existed in the past? I don't know, could it?

Of course - that's exactly the contention. Well, not exactly: it's more than a lack of empathy. It's a failure to even concieve of the natives as people to begin with, rather than a policy problem that needs solving. They're just statistics about school attendance, alcoholism, poverty, and whatever lurid sex crimes will enrage the population into writing blank checks for your military-industrial complex to run wild on the natives.

So the reservations where they (Native Americans) live are...?

Am I just supposed to invent some question there on my own, or what?

And they don't all live on reservations. Even without counting all of the Mexican Americans of predominantly native ancestry.

And not all reservations are created equal. It's a big country, with a lot of tribes, and there are fairly considerable variations in their situations. Some are very isolated and marginalized, others are integrated and empowered. Some just want to be left alone, while others wish to engage more extensively. Some don't really consider statistics about employment or education to be a huge priority for them. Some takes steps to ban alcohol and gambling on their lands, while others embrace it. The important thing is to empower them to make the appropriate decisions for themselves.

What about the reduction in their landholdings?

What about it?

How about their conditions?

What about them?

Native Americans rank the highest in unemployment and poverty rates, infant mortality and life expectancy. According to the 2009 Census Bureau, unemployment in Indian country ranks anywhere between 50 percent and 85 percent while in some reservations, nearly 90 percent of native people live below the federal poverty line. Indian reservations in the Midwest are plagued by alcoholism, domestic violence and teen suicide, all of it contributing to an epidemic of hopelessness within America’s indigenous populations.

Right, and?

An advantage of relating to the natives as (quasi-)sovereign nations is that it reduces the incentive to get all White Man's Burden on them. Would I like to see them doing better? Of course. But it would disrespect them to suggest that ensuring they do so is for me to concern myself with. When I say I want to see them do better, I mean it very literally. It's not a euphemism for wanting to see better done to them. They are to be subjects, not objects, and the kudos for improvements is to accrue to them and not some colonial apparatus managed from thousands of miles away.

Replace the natives in any of this rhetoric with any other nationality, and the offensiveness should become obvious really quickly. "What is to be done about those poor backwards Afghans? Better send in the Marines to make sure the girls learn to read."

Those casino's must be working well, huh?

You should have seen it before (supposing you've seen it now, which doesn't seem such a hot supposition, but whatever).

The reservations near where I live now (and the ones by my home town) now have massive multi-million-dollar resort hotel/casinos (along with gas stations, restaurants, golf courses, concert venues, etc. - and new schools) where 20 years ago there was - literally - nothing more than a portable building selling fireworks and tax-free cigarettes. They've actually got real lawyers pushing their land and water rights in real courts (and winning) now. It's a massive improvement over the situation 20 years ago, and visibly so.

I never said it was a perfect, or complete, or even particularly great response. But it does at least treat them as sovereigns on their lands, enabled to draw an income of their own to fund their own governance, police, infrastructure, etc. It's at least change in the right direction (however incomplete), unlike the neo-colonialist approach pursued Down Under.

Or how about we "let 'em operate casinos".. You mean that kind of self determination?

Yeah. Not sure where the sarcastic dismissal is coming from. The ability to legislate gambling (and also drug production and use) on reservations (in pointed variance with the laws of the states these reservations are situated in) is a pretty significant chunk of self-determination. Sovereignty, in fact - the reason they can do it is that the reservations are not subject to the laws of the surrounding state(s). If I decide to operate a casino on my property, I go to jail. They, on the other hand, get to advertize and make money hand-over-fist (and host many of the best concerts in the area, owing to the proliferation of newer, bigger music venues at the resort casinos).

Contrast that with the Aussie approach of making townships in government property and enforcing measures on pornography and alcohol, literally reducing entire communities into wards of the state. As if they were orphaned infants, or something.

My colour does not make the problems go away.

It's not up to you to make their problems go away, is the point. It's up to you to respect them, and help empower them to figure out their own way forward. This process where their fitness for self-determination is reduced into scare statistics to be judged by distant, unaccountable city-dwellers - who then deploy political and military resources to enforce their putatively superior standards - has a name. It's "colonialism."

So when Aboriginals talk of combating alcoholism and abuse and violence in their communities, when they talk about getting their children into schools, when they talk about getting access to equal health care and education, that's being racist?

Of course not. But when you talk about how your government needs to figure out how to do that for them, that's being racist (and colonialist). When they figure into national political discourse mainly as a collection of bad statistics to be fixed through state intervention, that's being racist (and colonialist). I know this because it works exactly the same way in the US. This PC neo-racism works by drumming on the problems so hard that people demand state solutions, and skip right over the basic issue of just empowering people in the first place. Which colonialism is, of course, the entire point. That's why the state goes in for it - it enhances their power and prerogative.

As they advise themselves, throwing money at the problem is not enough.

That's true. You need to give them power, as well.

Although plain old money would fix much of the things you mention, like frayed wiring and old school buildings. Those really are just simple matters of spending money.

The Government has to step up and do what is right. But apparently that's racist in your opinion?

Not at all. My contention is that the government is doing wrong, because the nation is racist. I'm all for the government empowering the natives. It's doing the opposite, and taking a great many fools along for the ride with all of the associated PC racism.

Apparently less racist is what the US has done, which you actually advised we do..

How do you figure?

And: "has done" or "is doing?"

to "let 'em operate casinos".. and how successful is that again?

More successful than not doing so. And, again, preferable to sending in the army like y'all.

Oh yes, that's right.. the stats for Native Americans in the US is worse than that of the Aboriginals in Australia.

Again, the pervasive insistence of reducing natives into statistical quantities to be handled through state policy, from a position of condescending superiority. Go tell it to Rudyard Kipling.
 
quadraphonics said:
...And, again, preferable to sending in the army like y'all.

You see, Bells? This is why you're wasting your time.
As many times as has been pointed out that the Australian version of "sending in the military" is somewhat different to how they understand it, they still keep blathering on as if you hadn't spoken at all.

These people are not interested in a discussion.

Several other glaring errors in the above several posts I'm not even going to bother with.
Understanding, strictly speaking, is not the agenda here.
 
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