Aboriginal child abuse and the NT Intervention

[Bells]

This from an individual who sets up accounts on supremacist sites...

No cherie. That would be you.

No, no, no its really the likes of your attitude for having such a low opinion of our Aborigines:

"Our Aborigines"? What are they? Like your pets or something?

Do you think you own them?

'How do you get the message across when these children refuse to attend school? Signs on the road? Excellent! Until it gets torn down and/or covered in spray paint and god knows what else. '

'Are the people living in some communities feral? Yes. When shit is smeared on walls and houses destroyed, cars burnt or attacked as they drive past....'

Realities of life. You may want to paint a picture perfect world of happy Dreamtime stories, but the actual reality is far different. Their life is hell and yes some do destroy houses - some do smear shit up the walls, as do some white Australians and people from other cultures as well. Is that a problem for you to accept that such indivduals exist? Are you denying that violence does not exist in the culture?

There is a feral culture - many of it exists around Byron Bay and Nimbin, where people live, quite literally, like ferals - shit in the woods and wipe your arse with leaves kind of feral. And they are called "ferals". They wear the title with pride amongst their unwashed masses.'

You are aware that the ferals who live around Nimbin are white? Yes?

No?

And you claim to be Australian? Everyone knows the ferals around the Nimbin area are whites who decide to go feral and quite literally shit in the woods and wipe with leaves.

And you yourself immigrated from third world Feral Africa, bit rich I reckon dont you think.

I stated I had African heritage. I also have Dutch and French heritage. I am actually not from Africa. Why did you make the assumption that I was an African from Africa? Again, proves your racism Brian.

Seeing I have been advised to ignore Bells, could admin at least confirm that Bells and spookz aren't the same IP address.

This made me laugh. Out loud!

Gustav, are you telling me you have not told our resident bigot the actual truth?

Gusgus, he thinks I'm spookz..

Fact is I HAVE lived in the Northern Territory, and Full blooded Aboriginals are ok people, really there is nothing to be scared of.

Who said there's anything to be scared of? I'd be happier driving through an Indigenous community than driving through Beenleigh at night.

Reading the comments from the other Australians and our new comer on this thread, and its full of this type of sensationalist garbage. The curious point I find after living 3.5 years in America and some years in Canada and New Zealand as well. Is that in those 3 nations you would never hear that sought of derogatory talk about their own natives, as you hear from Australians. Absolutely amazing, unique I believe.

Then you obviously have never spent any time in those countries. The economic disparity between "their own natives" and the European culture is great. To claim they do not acknowledge that and the issues that exist within said cultures is a lie. I have been a resident and citizen of this country since 1980, probably for longer than you have been alive. I have also been involved in human rights work and organisations for nearly 20 years now, much of it dealing directly with Indigenous issues. Your attempts to portray or state that it's all hunky dory again emphasises your own racism. Your attempts to deny what Elders in such communities say and have been consistently reported on - even in the report that triggered the "Intervention" in the NT again points to your racism.

Just as your referring to them as "our Natives" is racist. They are not yours anything. They are a people who are not owned by others.

“They (Indigenous Australians) were deemed and constructed as subhuman — little more than animals under the same classification as flora and fauna. This was to justify not only the theft of their land - but their extermination. Compared to wild dogs, an edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica still in circulation when I was at school described them as “Only an animal of prey: more ferocious than the leopard or hyena, he devours his own species” — So they were hunted and raped and massacred..”
John Pilger’s “The Secret Country”

And your referring to them as "boongs" and covered in flies and snot is what exactly?

No one is denying theft of their land or the mistreatment Brian. No one.

about the conflict b/w the legal systems of the old and new world

Why don't we Gustav. Do you think it is acceptable to beat tweens with sticks until their bones break as punishment? What about a woman who killed her abuser? Does she deserve to be beaten until she is hospitalised?

A former lecturer of mine now works as a legal advocate for Aboriginal rights in the justice system. He is part Aboriginal and he is against tribal law because of its brutality and because it denies individuals any rights that would be recognised under the guise of human rights laws.

Supporters of tribal law do not recognise that the laws themselves have to advance. Their response to calls to modernise or even end tribal law punishments is to use the 'death's in custody' argument. A valid one as far as I am concerned. Those who have died in custody have usually been individuals who have committed suicide because of the cultural clash that came with imprisonment. So the alternative is a ritualistic beating that results in broken bones and being speared with a spear in the leg - utterly brutal - and then the individual may end up being expelled from the tribe and cut off entirely from family.. Which is even more devastating and which does lead to repeated offences and jail sentences, by which time the individual is more prone to the dangers of suicide. It is a nasty cycle.

Tribal law was seen as a way to try to lessen the over representation of Aboriginals in incarceration. But at what cost? Personally I'd go for weeding out the racists in the police forces around the State and cultural education programs and having Indigenous police officers and cultural awareness officers to deal with the issues of over-representation in the justice system.

So what is the solution Gustav? You know, since you are all knowing and all?

Should we ask Brian, who says that 'his full blooded Aborigines are not scary'?

 

[Asguard]

As I said bells, I'm not against trible law but we have to decide which laws applie to which groups and where they applie. Its bad enough to have situations where is you roll over an invisible line consentual sex becomes Stat rape but you throw trible law in as well and how is anyone surposed to know what laws they are surposed to be following. For instance if trible law is to have standeds then it has to be formalised so that situations like what happened to my ambo friend don't happen. There also should be someway to decide between wether trible law OR normal law is surposed to be followed in specific situations.

 

[Gustav]

Gusgus, he thinks I'm spookz..

who the fuck is that? are you?

Why don't we Gustav.

lets see what you had to say moral relativism. way back in 03. with wes

*not so. you confuse what i hold to be objective truths. religion is a personal thing. it is a construct of the mind and thus is wholly subjective. refer back to a post where i assert that morality/ethics has a biological foundation. pain is considered undesirable by humans. a chinese will feel the same pain as an american. now what actions cause pain? murder, torture, infanticide, rape, assault etc. all these regardless of one's culture or society will be realized to be undesirable. laws will be formulated and will be applicable to all humans simply because they share the same biology.

now if a society engages in activities that contravene these laws, one can assert they violating the rights of their members. why do we not put babies out in the cold? it is because we hold this to be cruel and inhumane. ie: we know the baby will feel pain. that is objective knowledge. (we share the same biology as the baby).

now they have moral prescriptions in religions. a comparison will show that the similarities are quite striking. this is due to the shared perceptions that humans have with each other. again this stems from simple biology

*no. like i pointed out earlier, i am not talking about crossdressing or walking around in the nude in public. these are superficial issues. i do not agree with christians going into africa and covering up the natives nakedness due to some perverted sense of morality. these are non issues as far as i am concerned and to make something out of this is a waste of time

*naturally i will try to understand. i doubt if i will find any rationale for genocide/torture. infanticide due to ecological pressures can slide but perhaps in that instance, all options were not considered. as always there can be exceptions but that is hardly the norm. just because torturing one individual will save millions dos not make it right, just a necessary "'evil".

lets talk about an actual case. rape in s.africa. there is an aids epidemic over there and little babies are being raped as an cure for the sickness. now what kind of understanding do you wanna engage in a situation like this. assume you are in a position to effect change

*you obviously have no idea on what it takes to form a society/ nation. there has to be a consensus and this can only come about when a common thought process is shared. since human societies are thriving, i guess the divergent thought processes lost out. do not get carried away. i am not out to stifle free thought. i only want compliance with some basic fundamental truths that if adopted, will better the lot of all. (there will losers but hey...)

*you misunderstand. i am saying in special circumstances, fundamental rights can be violated if it is for the larger good. in this case it is to ensure as many survivors as possible.

yes it is wrong. ask yourself if you want to be killed and eaten. then ask every frikkin human on the planet. their answer will not differ from yours. do you not get that there is pain involved and humans avoid pain at all cost?. in most of these scenarios, a victim/victims can be clearly identified but is ignored. i will not do that because i am consistent in my outlook. if i do not like, it is not a leap to assume others will not too. again, let me stress i am not talking about superficiail idiosyncrasies and the like

*human rights. i believe there is an arm of the united nations in which almost every nation are signatories of a pact guaranteeing their citizens certain fundamental rights.

why do you give so much weight to an "exception"? if these occur, one does not have not have negate the whole premise. rather one could make modifications to acommadate these ""exceptions". all forms of insanity cannot be fixed and i see no reason to acommadate an unreasonable thought proceses. i will write these cases off as collateral damage

"There is reason to believe, however, that these explanations are post facto rationalizations, consequences of, rather than contributory to, female infanticide. For example, Rasmussen himself reports :the Netsilik never think of reasoning with themselves" about their beliefs, "but simply react to what some event or other may force upon their notice" (Ibid:206); and again, "It is said that it is so, and therefore it is so" (Ibid.: 207). A similar conclusion is reached by Steenhoven, who writes, with regard to the delay in conceiving while nursing: "But the Eskimo do not usually rationalize along these lines; they have just accepted the practice of infanticide as a custom" (Steenhoven 1962: 50). (Freeman, Milton M. R. (1971) A social and ecological analysis of systematic female infancide among the Netsilik Eskimo. American Anthropologist 73, 5: pp. 1014)



heh
to reiterate an earlier point......

now it is not simple expediency (ecological) (which by the way i can understand) anymore but false ideologies that are at play here.

ja
catch me on a bad day and i'll nuke all these stoneage fuckers into oblivion

 

[Gustav]

i must say all y'all's handwringing is a cause for much bemusement.
this here, is the us. in 1885

The Major Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. § 1153) is a law passed by the United States Congress in 1885. It places 15 major crimes under federal jurisdiction if they are committed by a Native American against another Native American in Native territory.

These crimes include:

* Murder
* Manslaughter
* Kidnapping
* Maiming
* Felony under ch. 109A
* Incest
* Assault with intent to commit murder
* Assault with a deadly weapon
* Assault resulting in serious bodily injury
* Assault against a minor under 16 years old
* Arson
* Burglary
* Robbery
* Felony crimes under (18 U.S.C. § 661)
* Felony child abuse or neglect

The act was passed in response to the Supreme Court of the United States's affirmation of tribal sovereignty in their ruling in Ex parte Crow Dog (109 U.S. 556 (1883)), wherein they overturned the federal court conviction of Brule Lakota sub-chief Crow Dog, who was convicted and sentenced to death for the murder of principal chief Spotted Tail on the Rosebud Indian Reservation in Dakota Territory. The Court reasoned that the ability of the tribe to deal with such an offense was an attribute of tribal sovereignty that had not been specifically abrogated by an act of Congress.

The Major Crimes Act reduced the internal sovereignty of native tribes by removing their ability to try and to punish serious offenders in Indian country. The theory underlying it was that Indian tribes were not competent to deal with serious issues of crime and punishment. The constitutionality of the Major Crimes Act was upheld in United States v. Kagama (118 U.S. 375 (1886)), a case in which two Indians were prosecuted for killing another Indian on a reservation. While the Court agreed that the prosecution of major crimes did not fall within Congress's power to regulate commerce with the Indian tribes, it ruled that the trust relationship between the federal government and the tribes conferred on Congress both the duty and the power to regulate tribal affairs.​

pissing on tribal sovereignty

At the dawn of the 21st Century, the powers of tribal courts across the United States varied, depending on whether the tribe was in a Public Law 280 state or not. Tribal courts maintain much criminal jurisdiction over their members, and because of the Duro Fix, over nonmember Indians regarding crime on tribal land. The Indian Civil Rights Act, however, limits tribal punishment to 6 months in jail and a $5,000 fine. Tribal Courts have no criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians. In PL280 states (Alaska, California, Minnesota, Nebraska, Oregon, and Wisconsin), the state has been granted criminal and civil adjudicatory jurisdiction over activities in Indian Country. In non-PL280 states, Indian on Indian crime in Indian Country may be prosecuted in Federal Court if the crime is one of those listed in the Major Crimes Act (§1153). Indian on non-Indian crime in Indian Country will be prosecuted in Federal Court, either from the MCA, or the Indian Country Crimes Act (§1152) (unless the Indian was punished by the tribe). Non-Indian on Indian crime in Indian Country will be prosecuted in Federal court using ICCA. Non-Indian on non-Indian crime in Indian Country will be prosecuted by the state.​

Tribal governments today

 

[Brian Foley]

Realities of life.

Realities of stereotype and ignorance.

You are aware that the ferals who live around Nimbin are white? Yes?

Nimbin is a town where new agers and alternative people have congregated, I have been there, on my search for good :m:. Ferals??? LOL try Hippies.

And you claim to be Australian? Everyone knows the ferals around the Nimbin area are whites who decide to go feral and quite literally shit in the woods and wipe with leaves.

Its communes and camps with long drops.This is some lame excuse to make your bigoted comments appear unilateral in their scope, you got caught out making fucked comments about Aborigines.

I stated I had African heritage. I also have Dutch and French heritage. I am actually not from Africa. Why did you make the assumption that I was an African from Africa? Again, proves your racism Brian.

Just another new comer to me, the most blatant ignorance towards aborigines comes from immigrants to Australia. Judging by your comments you see yourself as superior to them, the same attitude Maori immigrants here have towards Aborigines I note, dirty and lazy according to them, your own words say it.

This made me laugh. Out loud!

Gustav, are you telling me you have not told our resident bigot the actual truth?

Gusgus, he thinks I'm spookz..

If I can prove you set up multiple accounts and get admin to give me you I.P address I can email the admin on that forum and explain the situation and get them to identify which account you are there, and take it from there, we will see.

I have been a resident and citizen of this country since 1980, probably for longer than you have been alive.

Well go hang at a forum for your own age group and leave us all alone, please, really.

I have also been involved in human rights work and organisations for nearly 20 years now, much of it dealing directly with Indigenous issues.

You cant of, not when you ramble off this kind of shit:

When you have a mother sobbing to you because her son has raped her and beaten her every night of the week, and stolen all her welfare money for booze and spray paint and she has no money left to feed her other children, then you might gain some understanding of what their actual plight is. She is one of those people whose welfare payments are controlled. Do you know why? So her son cannot steal it anymore and her other children get fed 3 times a day.

That is the attitude towards Aborigines here, based on unfounded social atrocities, they are written off, as above, as though they are animals reacting on instinct.

 

[Bells]

Realities of stereotype and ignorance.

Actually no. Realities of life where there is extreme poverty and anger Brian.

Nimbin is a town where new agers and alternative people have congregated, I have been there, on my search for good . Ferals??? LOL try Hippies.

I live about 1 hour away from there Brian. There are the hippies and ferals.

Its communes and camps with long drops.This is some lame excuse to make your bigoted comments appear unilateral in their scope, you got caught out making fucked comments about Aborigines.

Depends on where you go. But there are ferals and they call themselves ferals and are referred to as ferals.

I also call white, yellow, green people who rent houses and smear fecal matter up the walls and destroy the houses, feral.

Just another new comer to me, the most blatant ignorance towards aborigines comes from immigrants to Australia. Judging by your comments you see yourself as superior to them, the same attitude Maori immigrants here have towards Aborigines I note, dirty and lazy according to them, your own words say it.

Just as you consider yourself to be superior to the African?

Having been taught by and worked closely with Aboriginals, I would have to say they are superior to me.

If I can prove you set up multiple accounts and get admin to give me you I.P address I can email the admin on that forum and explain the situation and get them to identify which account you are there, and take it from there, we will see.

Yes Brian. As I said. This was a set up planned from 2008. I created accounts there in 2008, just to set you up and get you with it in 2010. I really did. Wait until you see what I have set up for you in 2015.

That's how much you factor into my life Brian! I have to say though, 2015 will be minor compared to 2018. Just promise me you'll still be posting here in July 2018. Promise me Brian!

And Spookz is very much still a poster on this forum and he is participating in this thread. And I can assure you, he is laughing at your stupidity.

Well go hang at a forum for your own age group and leave us all alone, please, really.

So you are a racist and into age discrimination?

Excellent.

You cant of, not when you ramble off this kind of shit:

When you have a mother sobbing to you because her son has raped her and beaten her every night of the week, and stolen all her welfare money for booze and spray paint and she has no money left to feed her other children, then you might gain some understanding of what their actual plight is. She is one of those people whose welfare payments are controlled. Do you know why? So her son cannot steal it anymore and her other children get fed 3 times a day.

That is the attitude towards Aborigines here, based on unfounded social atrocities, they are written off, as above, as though they are animals reacting on instinct.

Dumbarse, the whole plight of the Aboriginals is a social atrocity. Or did that little fact pass you by?

who the fuck is that? are you?

We are all spookz gusgus..

lets see what you had to say moral relativism. way back in 03. with wes

We are also 1 of Wes.

Remember that?

But something you should keep in mind cherie, I always use capital letters at the beginning of my sentences. You do not. Eek.. A clue perhaps?

 

[Gustav]

never mind all that
you get the point of the quotes?

 

[Brian Foley]

Having been taught by and worked closely with Aboriginals, I would have to say they are superior to me.

Yeah sure, your description of an alcoholic, paedophile, incestuous feral people obsessed with porn and shit smearing living from one welfare hand out to the next... colour me unconvinced.

Yes Brian. As I said. This was a set up planned from 2008. I created accounts there in 2008

I know who set that account up, I just want to find which account you hold on that forum, and display it on sciforums.

Dumbarse, the whole plight of the Aboriginals is a social atrocity. Or did that little fact pass you by?

Oh my God, what have I been writing about since post #93.... Somewhere in the World a psychiatric Hospital is missing a patient...

 

[Bells]

Yeah sure, your description of an alcoholic, paedophile, incestuous feral people obsessed with porn and shit smearing living from one welfare hand out to the next... colour me unconvinced.

Incest and child abuse occurs in all societies. Poverty makes the realities of life more harsh.

I know who set that account up, I just want to find which account you hold on that forum, and display it on sciforums.

Which brings me to another point that I forgot to mention earlier:

"If I can prove you set up multiple accounts and get admin to give me you I.P address I can email the admin on that forum and explain the situation and get them to identify which account you are there, and take it from there, we will see."​

Which implies you know the administrators and trust them and they trust you enough to provide you with the IP addresses of any other member on that forum.

I am amused!

Oh my God, what have I been writing about since post #93.... Somewhere in the World a psychiatric Hospital is missing a patient...

Keep trying bigot. One day you might just get it.

never mind all that
you get the point of the quotes?

It is spooky just how much laws are distinctly racist, isn't it?

Spooky I say!

 

[Brian Foley]

Which brings me to another point that I forgot to mention earlier:

"If I can prove you set up multiple accounts and get admin to give me you I.P address I can email the admin on that forum and explain the situation and get them to identify which account you are there, and take it from there, we will see."​

Which implies you know the administrators and trust them and they trust you enough to provide you with the IP addresses of any other member on that forum.

I am amused!

Thats a no brainer, contacting admin you just press the 'Contact Us' tab, all forums have them
I have only contacted sciforums, because I dont know under what account name you are on that forum, I need to identify who you are on that forum, so I start here on sciforums by getting your I.P address. I have a good case, as it was done before by two other members here.

 

[Bells]

Thats a no brainer, contacting admin you just press the 'Contact Us' tab, all forums have them
I have only contacted sciforums, because I dont know under what account name you are on that forum, I need to identify who you are on that forum, so I start here on sciforums by getting your I.P address. I have a good case, as it was done before by two other members here.

You missed my point. Administrators will rarely ever give out IP addresses of their members without that person's consent unless the situation warrants it. Since I am not a member of that forum.. Well you get where I am going with this?

That forum is open to the public in that anyone who is not a member can read all the posts there and use the search function. Their security measure is very weak since I could search for posts made by individual posters even if you're not a member. All that was required was to type in the image verification. I would suggest, if you do PM their Admin in your bid to see if I am a member there (considering you accused me of posting under your name there.. I guess you could try and be lame and join on a second account as "Bells"... which would be easily verified since your join date shows up in your posts)..

Now it is your contention that I apparently joined there under your name since 2008 (since that's when you first joined) and posted all these racist things under your name to set you up .. ??

And then, to make matters worse for you, you then accused me of being Spookz.. The member formerly known as Spookz is posting in this thread and, well, to give you a hint, he's a member you've been spending half your time sucking up to in this thread.


But you do that. Tell me how you go.


I shall now call you a dumbarse.. again.

 

[Brian Foley]

You missed my point. Administrators will rarely ever give out IP addresses of their members without that person's consent unless the situation warrants it.

I have only contacted sciforums, as I have a prior documented case of harassment on sciforum, and the admin of SFD forum (where these two members activities were alerted to me) has informed me he will vouch for me over this.

Since I am not a member of that forum.. Well you get where I am going with this?

You are a member of that forum, your defensive attitude is a give away, an IP identification will settle this.

 

[Bells]

I have only contacted sciforums, as I have a prior documented case of harassment on sciforum, and the admin of SFD forum (where these two members activities were alerted to me) has informed me he will vouch for me over this.
You are a member of that forum, your defensive attitude is a give away, an IP identification will settle this.

Then go right ahead.

You have my consent..

 

[Brian Foley]

Then go right ahead.

You have my consent..

Reassured by the other mods

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

That is the attitude towards Aborigines here, based on unfounded social atrocities, they are written off, as above, as though they are animals reacting on instinct.

That's nothing unique. Iron Age cultures (and Industrial Age cultures and now Information Age cultures) always react that way when they encounter a people who are a Paradigm Shift (or two, or three) behind them. The Iron Age Christian Europeans regarded the Aztecs and Incas as nearly subhuman, even though they had actually built civilizations and progressed into the Bronze Age; the Aztecs even had written language. They were much harsher in North America when they met the Neolithic tribes who were just starting to link their agricultural villages into trading networks, the first step toward civilization. People who were still in the Paleolithic Era--small clans of hunter-gatherers who had not yet invented agriculture--were regarded, often literally, as "animals".

People tend to be very smug about being members of civilization. They never stop to realize that unless their ancestors were Romans, Greeks, Indians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc., they were merely "barbarians" who had been conquered by one of those civilizations and forced to assimilate, just as the Native Americans, Australians, Maori, etc. were.

I'll estimate that a fair percentage of the people who are reading this are only a couple of dozen generations removed from ancestors who were regarded as "primitive" and played the role of the Aborigines to someone who was playing the role of the English.

The majority of my ancestors were conquered in their Bronze Age and assimilated into the Roman Empire.

 

[Asguard]

Queenslanders must all fear the invasion of the army into queensland, its 1200 plus strong which is twice the commitment to the invasion of iraq. God help all queenslanders.... wait, where are the guns and why do the army have brooms insted?

I apologise to bells and the other queenslanders here. Im trying to make a point about the stupidity of some of the comments here

 

[The Marquis]

A good point Asguard, but you've forgotten, there are no blacks involved. Well, not directly anyway.

So, in the context of this thread and another recently raised regarding Queensland, the army was involved in doing almost exactly the same thing; only the terminology used to desribe their involvement differs. Military intervention, rescue and rebuilding operation... only the words matter. And the viewpoint of those writing those words.

Racism is not, and never was, limited to whites. Whites were a little more accomplished in the execution of their beliefs for a while there, that much is true... but the times, they are a changing.

You know the song "The Distance" - Cake?
It's started to remind of our lad Spookz here.