A world with a loving God.

[Xelasnave.1947]

You’re the one who asked the question.

Yes but you are the one that avoids offering an answer.

Maybe this isn’t the discussion for you.

Really?!
I started the thread, asked in effect, what the world would be like if the unsupported claims that a loving God exists were more than fantasy, could be...so simple..yet here we are with no intelligent answer from you....and your best shot is "maybe this isn't the discussion for you"...
Address the op ...you won't..you can not...as to do so can only destroy that fragile reality you work so hard to maintain...still that's ok.
Jan I do hope you are well and I still enjoy your posts and your ability to do what you do...I know no one better.
Your ability to become the centre of attention is beyond anything I have seen...and I love it.
How have I been? Mostly survived the bush fires..nearly lost one house but lost some equipment..then the following flood I lost a pump...bye
Alex

 

[Write4U]

How have I been? Mostly survived the bush fires..nearly lost one house but lost some equipment..then the following flood I lost a pump...bye
Alex

I hope all is well with you physically. Life in the country is tough enough without having to deal with natural disasters.

 

[Michael 345]

Hope you are well.
Jan can't address the op that much is clear.
If he did one could think the obvious conclusion can only be that all the unsupported claims would fail.
Alex

I'm well thanks 78 no medications and Bali holiday 10 days time where will indulge in $2:20 beer, 2 a night for a few nights with good company. Hope you well also

I am somewhat surprised Jan is able to keep the merry-go-round operating for so long

I thought he was good for a giggle, but that wore off and he has been on Iggy for long period

I get a giggle now from those who expect rationality from said person

Cheers

 

[billvon]

There’s nothing difficult about believing God exists. It is a connection that humans have.

You say you believe in God, but have never seen God. The reality is, you do not know.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

2 a night for a few nights

You are talking about beer???? if not please more detail.

Jan is entertaining, we are privelledged to witness his talent.
The key is to know Jan presents nonsense for us to chase rather than think he is into discussion. His downfall is perhaps his belief he is smarter than others ... If he was really smart we could expect mature discussion..I love the game as it's one you can't lose...I think Jan does his thing so others can feel good about themselves. That's nice. That's how I see him..nice and a decent human here to entertain even at some considerable personal expense. He reminds me of many ladies that I have met...they, he are just playing with you holding a belief they are superior...that's ok..whatever they need is ok by me...all good.
Alex

 

[Write4U]

I see him..nice and a decent human here to entertain even at some considerable personal expense.

Alex, you have a generous heart. I bow to your wisdom.

 

[James R]

I believe the earth is a globe, but I don’t know it as fact.

Maybe you ought to watch a lunar eclipse some time.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Maybe you ought to watch a lunar eclipse some time.

I see what Jan is about.
Perhaps his observation is that unless he can observe first hand all he is working with are others facts...so until he gets a ride on the space he can't observe the Earth as a globe...on the space station he can see and so have his "fact".
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Alex, you have a generous heart. I bow to your wisdom.

Your kindness is flattering and I enjoy it...please tell me more...
All I think is we all get a little argumentative here...we forget to see that others are decent, perhaps playful perhaps aggressive...but finally everyone are nice people...Jan is no fool even if he tries to present otherwise. His meaning are often so deep they can be missed...but our benefit is he is most entertaining.
Alex
Alex

 

[James R]

Jan would have us believe, because it suits his argument of the moment, that he is so skeptical that he refuses to accept any fact except on the evidence of his own senses. That is, he wants us to believe that unless he can observe with his own eyes the "roundness" of the Earth, he will refuse to accept that it is round, preferring instead to rely on his own sensory perception that it is flat. He is telling us that he will ignore he vast majority of human learning and combined experience, instead relying entirely on himself and his own perceptions in order to decide what the world is like.

Although hard to take seriously at first glance, this is not entirely inconsistent with Jan's history of postings to this forum. Jan relies on himself and his own authority as evidence of the existence of God, and has done so consistently in the entire time he has been here. At the same time, since he knows very little science, he believes all manner of scientific falsehoods, based only on his own perception and disbelief.

Jan is an example of what happens to a person when they throw away all semblance of objectivity and critical thinking and instead embrace a sort of extreme solipsism. The solipsist creates his own, personal, religion, with himself at the centre. He believes he is God (and Jan has confirmed that this is also his view). His own opinions become reality in his own mind, no matter what the topic is. There are no checks and balances - no comparing the beliefs with objective facts. When such a thing is suggested, the solipsist shuts out the suggestion and refuses to examine the evidence.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

He is telling us that he will ignore he vast majority of human learning and combined experience, instead relying entirely on himself and his own perceptions in order to decide what the world is like.

I can go with such an approach as in truth that's how I approach things.
I don't care what others say if I think their thing is flawed...big bang..I don't buy it...I know what that means but I just think it is fundamentally flawed...so do I lie and say yes I am for it or state my truth which is I don't buy it...I have my reasons which prevent me buying the theory.
If Jan has a god belief that's ok but I am opposite believing the universe is eternal thereby excluding a creator and a big bang.

Alex

 

[wegs]

Yea, having a belief in God doesn't mean that ''anything goes,'' when it comes to science.

 

[Michael 345]

You are talking about beer???? if not please more detail.

Bintang

Jan is entertaining

Above - plus the rest

You are a lot lot more kind in your assessment than myself

 

[Jan Ardena]

I’m wondering Jan - do you believe the earth is flat and do you feel that you betray your faith beliefs if you were to accept certain scientific proofs as valid?

I said I believe the earth is a globe.
I don’t know first hand that it is, and neither does anyone else, unless they’ve witnessed it themselves.
I do accept scientific proofs as valid. But it doesn’t mean that I know them to be true, unless I know that it is true.
Knowledge is truth, otherwise it is information.

I don’t think as believers, we need to choose one way over another.

Nothing changes, in that sense, because you are “a believer”. Many people believe in God, and accept Darwinian evolution. What we accept, or don’t accept as scientific evidence, has nothing to do with theism.
This war that perpetuates between atheism and religion, again has nothing to do with theism.

Science plays an important role in understanding the mechanics of the world around us but it’s entirely possible to believe that a Creator was behind it all.

The alternative, which is, there is no creator behind the mechanics of this world, should be talked about in terms of “possibility”.

I ask you this, because I sometimes get the sense that you feel you have to “pick a side.”

It’s only a sense. We all get that.
JC on the cross, played that role nicely when he asked his Father “why has though forsaken me?”
You’d think he was losing his faith by those words.
But he was talking to his Father.
The point is, no matter what is going on here, there IS God. At some point we always align ourself with God, whether we believe in God or not.
Belief and non belief are simply two sides of the same coin.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Yes but you are the one that avoids offering an answer.

I gave you an answer.
Deal with it, or not.

Really?!
I started the thread,

I know! Right.

I started the thread, asked in effect, what the world would be like if the unsupported claims that a loving God exists were more than fantasy, could be...so simple..yet here we are with no intelligent answer from you....and your best shot is "maybe this isn't the discussion for you"...

That’s not what you asked, firstly.
I then asked you what you meant by “a loving God”, to which you decided to jump on the atheist bandwagon . Then I gave you a typical analogy of what could be meant by “a loving God”
“A loving father”.
Then I told you that I have explained that already in this thread. No need to write it up again.

Address the op ...you won't..you can not...as to do so can only destroy that fragile reality you work so hard to maintain...still that's ok.

“Fragile reality”!
That’s funny.

I did address it.
I asked what you mean by “ a loving God”
I’m not a mind-reader.

Your ability to become the centre of attention is beyond anything I have seen...and I love it.

It”s not my intention to become centre of attention, believe me. I think I get all the darwinians running around in a frenzy, bumping into things, putting on war paint and stuff.

How have I been? Mostly survived the bush fires..nearly lost one house but lost some equipment..then the following flood I lost a pump...bye
Alex

That’s really tough.
Hope all your insurance is up to date.

 

[Write4U]

At some point we always align ourself with God, whether we believe in God or not.

Not if there is another alternative, which you conveniently ignore.
It is not a question of 'either or". There is a third option which renders God unneccessary and superfluous.

Belief and non belief are simply two sides of the same coin.

Belief and non-belief is not a truth that can be flipped .
Knowledge and ignorance are two sides of the same coin. Truth remains regardless of either.

 

[Jan Ardena]

This is, however, a perfectly useless argument.

It’s not an argument, it’s the truth.

At some point, the reality you experience is the reality in which you operate.

I don’t experience a global earth in my day to day existence. I experience a flat earth, like everybody else on the planet. Obviously it doesn’t mean the earth is flat in its entirety.
I’ve never seen the earth from that perspective.
So I accept that the earth is a globe, from those that have. But I don’t know that it is true.

Did you ever go up into space, and verify it, yourself? At no point can you be absolutely certain that your memory of doing so would be real.

If I knew the earth was a globe, I wouldn’t need to rely on my memory. The truth would have become a part of me. It would simply be having knowledge.

It's one thing to note Descartes sometimes skipped out on important stuff, but no, precartesian is ridiculous, and, as the occasion demonstrates, functionally useless.

If this quote is important, you might want to break it down so the likes of me can comprehend its meaning.

 

[Write4U]

It”s not my intention to become centre of attention, believe me. I think I get all the darwinians running around in a frenzy, bumping into things, putting on war paint and stuff.

You mean theist displaying signs and symbols of worshipping an imaginary power?
Drinking the blood of christ, kneeling in submission, crossing oneself for protection?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

At some point we always align ourself with God, whether we believe in God or not.

Yeah, but what if I don;t have time to?

Like, I teleport into the center of the Sun.

 

[Write4U]

I don’t experience a global earth in my day to day existence. I experience a flat earth, like everybody else on the planet.

No you don't experience a flat earth. Everything you experience is a result of a global earth. If you are unable to identify with natural phenomena which rule our everyday experience of reality, you are leading a shallow life, with a false meaning assigned for your convenience.

Knowledge of your environment creates a deeper intimacy and experience of your environment and should lead to responsible behavior to protect your environment from ignorant wanton use, relying only on an "unseen protector".

Watch the Nova video of earth and how "everything" on earth is connected into one great ecological system which supports your life in all respects, including the gravity which allows you to believe you are walking on a flat surface.