A Request Directed to Sciforums' "Atheists"

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Kittamaru said:
So what should replace religion then?

I mean that honestly - if religion serves no further purpose in todays "scientific community", then what should replace it?

Mind you, as a whole, it seems we are becoming dumber... and the evidence to that is all around us...

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/15/research-suggests-humans-are-evolving-to-be-dumber/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...uman-intelligence-victoria-era_n_3293846.html

http://www.livescience.com/37095-humans-smarter-or-dumber.html

And the US tends to be a perfect example of it...

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/
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How about education and becoming more cultural as in art and music and literary appreciation? Or what about entertainment media like TV, movies, and the internet? Someone once said religion is what a man does in his solitude. If that's the case then religion is already being replaced by far more interesting and challenging things. I mean, how much time do we just spend online? Social media and discussion forums and blogs, etc. We ALL worship in the grand cathedral of the WWW. And our God is Information.
 
Kittamaru said:
So then let us take the point to the root of the issue... which is simple in the end. People will use ANY tool at their disposal to gain power, wealth, or adoration given the chance if they think they can get away with or justify it... this makes religion, like so much else, simply a tool, an end to a means.
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It's an incredibly weak argument that religion is not the only trigger of strife in the world. And it's incorrect to suggest that religion is merely a tool. To do so is to deny the existence of true believers, and the power their faith can have over them. If you accept that religion makes people do good things, you must also accept that it makes people do bad things. It is a uniquely powerful motovator, precisely because it makes claims of absolute knowledge.
 
cluelusshusbund said:
I thank that was kinda Bible-Gods solution wit the grate flood :scratchin:

But heres a queston to you:::

If you was a all-knowin all-powerful God... woud you create humans... if children bein raped/tortured murdered was inevitable.???

PS:::

I woudnt.!!!
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See, that's just it... and one of the things about God that has me a bit... confused. It is said that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent... but even then, that does not mean He can know how things WILL proceed. Sure, He can know every choice and how every reality COULD proceed... but the future is never written in stone. I think... given the risks... yes, I would have created humanity. Admittedly, I might have done things a little different (the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would have, if I were God, been surrounded by a fifty foot tall wall of pure slick ice that was also on fire so as to ensure nobody would get past it) but yeah...

Balerion said:
It's an incredibly weak argument that religion is not the only trigger of strife in the world. And it's incorrect to suggest that religion is merely a tool. To do so is to deny the existence of true believers, and the power their faith can have over them. If you accept that religion makes people do good things, you must also accept that it makes people do bad things. It is a uniquely powerful motovator, precisely because it makes claims of absolute knowledge.
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Indeed, it can make people do wonderful things, but it can bring people to do terrible things... such is humanity. I would not say it is religions fault for this, but rather how we, as imperfect, fallible, egotistic, self-centered humans interpret it.
 
Kittamaru said:
Indeed, it can make people do wonderful things, but it can bring people to do terrible things... such is humanity. I would not say it is religions fault for this, but rather how we, as imperfect, fallible, egotistic, self-centered humans interpret it.
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And since we can't change our nature, what's the next-best solution?

I would submit that we forgo faith. A future without dogma is a much brighter one.
 
Indeed, it can make people do wonderful things, but it can bring people to do terrible things... such is humanity. I would not say it is religions fault for this, but rather how we, as imperfect, fallible, egotistic, self-centered humans interpret it.
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People would not hate gay people unless their own religion had demonized them. There's simply no logical basis for such discrimination without religion to justify it. People naturally want to see others as the same, with the same natures and traits. With religion you have a force for division and hatred of others that would not otherwise exist. Muslim fundamentalists would not be flying into buildings without their religion. Protestants and Catholics would never have been at war with each other without religion. Innocent women would not have been burned as witches without religion. Religion makes otherwise good people do extraordinarily bad things. History is quite clear on this.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW.."--Matt 10:34
 
Kittamaru said:
So what should replace religion then?

I mean that honestly - if religion serves no further purpose in todays "scientific community", then what should replace it?
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In most cases, I would hope nothing replaces it. After all, if we stop people from believing they were born in sin, I don't want them burdened with some other soul-crushing myth in its place. Religious tropes such as blind faith, total submission of will, and vicarious redemption are things we should want to be rid of wholly, without waiting for some new story to take their place.

Mind you, as a whole, it seems we are becoming dumber... and the evidence to that is all around us...


And the US tends to be a perfect example of it...

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/
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That reflects on our education system, not on our capacity to learn.
 
Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
If you was a all-knowin all-powerful God... woud you create humans... if children bein raped/tortured murdered was inevitable.???

PS:::

I woudnt.!!!
Click to expand...

Kittamaru said:
It is said that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent...
Sure, He can know every choice and how every reality COULD proceed... but the future is never written in stone.
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What is it about Omnipotent and Omnipresent which causes you to thank that God doesnt know the exact choices that people will make.???

Kitt
I think... given the risks... yes, I would have created humanity. Admittedly, I might have done things a little different (the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would have, if I were God, been surrounded by a fifty foot tall wall of pure slick ice that was also on fire so as to ensure nobody would get past it) but yeah...
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But what is it thats so important that humans exist... if it means that children bein raped/tortured murdered is inevitable.???
 
cluelusshusbund said:
What is it about Omnipotent and Omnipresent which causes you to thank that God doesnt know the exact choices that people will make.???



But what is it thats so important that humans exist... if it means that children bein raped/tortured murdered is inevitable.???
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Who knows; this is an answer that mankind has been searching for since the dawn of time (Why are we here)
 
Kittamaru said:
As I've already said, the Bible isn't something we can just take verbatim anymore. While the overall message is one that still applies, it is none the less a book written in a vastly different time in human history. It needs to be regarded as either history or allegory; to take it entirely at face value would be to embrace... well, nothing short of absolute anarchy and madness. After all, even though it is the "word of God", it was still written by very mortal, and all too fallible, men.
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I used to think that way, but here's the thing that kept bothering me... Why would an omnipotent omniscient God who has a message for us allow it to be corrupted? Just my $.02 worth.
 
gmilam said:
I used to think that way, but here's the thing that kept bothering me... Why would an omnipotent omniscient God who has a message for us allow it to be corrupted? Just my $.02 worth.
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I never understood why a God would give us such USELESS information. I mean hey, your the all-knowing creator of the universe. How about the cure to cancer? The way to achieve world peace? A few revolutionary physics equations maybe? The periodic table? For a supposedly divinely revealed document to mankind, it sure contains a lot of bogus crap.
 
Magical Realist said:
I never understood why a God would give us such USELESS information. I mean hey, your the all-knowing creator of the universe. How about the cure to cancer? The way to achieve world peace? A few revolutionary physics equations maybe? The periodic table? For a supposedly divinely revealed document to mankind, it sure contains a lot of bogus crap.
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What is it worth to have it handed to us?

What is the value of something but the effort put forth to obtain it?

Also:

h711D90F3
 
quinnsong said:
@ Kittamaru'

Hear! Hear! Hard to have regrets when you live in the moment, eh?
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Eh, not so much to be honest... I only have two true regrets that mean anything to me:

One is that, the night before my Grandfather suffered the stroke/aneurysm that killed him, I had intended to stop over there after work and see him. I ended up not doing so because I got out of work late (at the time i worked at a local grocery store) and was covered in filth and smelled of, well, death... (I had to clean the under-floor grease trap in the butchers shop) - since I ended up getting out of work much later at night than I had intended (nearly 10pm) I figured eh, I'll just head over after work tomorrow... it was during the middle of my shift the next day that I got the phone call that he had suffered the stroke & aneurysm... he never regained consciousness. I took some solace in that, while talking with him while he was on life support his heart rate and breathing changed ever so slightly and at one point he squeezed my hand... like he was letting me know that it was okay... but I still find it difficult to forgive myself.

The other is that I couldn't save a young girl I had become acquaintances with... she suffered from a severe depression and I would spend sometimes hours each night talking to her via video chat, just helping to sure up her self esteem and self worth... I thought we had been making progress... but she committed suicide in the end... her parents weren't abusive but they weren't supportive either, and they didn't take her seriously when she tried to talk to them about her depression, brushing it off as "just a phase"... I don't know what more I could have done... she lived quite a ways away from me (she was in California, I am in Pennsylvania), but I can't help but think that maybe... maybe if I had gone out there and helped her confront her parents... or maybe taken her to a doctor... or even put her in touch with a professional somehow... who knows... but as they say "if" is a big word...

*sighs* Regrets can and will happen... the trick is simply not to let them overwhelm you or control you... you can't change the past, all you can do is learn from it.
 
Kittamaru said:
What is it worth to have it handed to us?
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Quite a bit to people who have cancer.!!!

As far as the Dalal Lama cartoon... why woud any Bible-believer be surprised that humans behave like humans... the way "God" created us to behave.???

An then cartoon Dalai smuggly says... "An then he dyes havin never realy lived";;; thats perty jugmental for somone who hasnt walked in the other mans shoes.!!!
 
What is it worth to have it handed to us?

What is the value of something but the effort put forth to obtain it?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the value of information isn't based on how hard it is to get. I mean, I acquire all sorts of valuable information everyday with a click of my computer, but that doesn't make it worthless information.
 
Kittamaru said:
I think... given the risks... yes, I would have created humanity. Admittedly, I might have done things a little different (the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would have, if I were God, been surrounded by a fifty foot tall wall of pure slick ice that was also on fire so as to ensure nobody would get past it) but yeah...
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Even a extra smart monkey or me coud have created beter than God did :shrug:

I woud have skipped all the tree-of-knowledge/sin/saved/heaven/hell type bs an everbody i created woud simply be happy forever.!!!
 
cluelusshusbund said:
Even a extra smart monkey or me coud have created beter than God did :shrug:

I woud have skipped all the tree-of-knowledge/sin/saved/heaven/hell type bs an everbody i created woud simply be happy forever.!!!
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There is a problem with that... how would we know we were happy if we never had sadness/pain/anger to compare it against?
 
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