A Request Directed to Sciforums' "Atheists"

[quinnsong]

And sometimes I ask myself if our argument against the political religious right brings even more attention to them? But to not speak up is to simply lie down and do nothing.

Just one of the many reasons we (theists/agnostics/atheists) cannot lie down in this very good article below. Some good news at the end from Pew Research though.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...fundamentalism-toxic-partisanship-us-politics

My fear is that we as atheist are becoming what we hate. That we are becoming like the religious fundamentalists we complain about - who wouldn't vote for someone based on their atheism. That we could get to a point where we would start to discriminate against someone for being a theist.

If we keep our reason and we do not let our worldview become like the Fundamentalists(black/white,good/evil) we should be okay. We need to keep it about the bigoted and hateful policies and not about the individual theist.

As Shakespeare observed in Hamlet.

“Why then ’tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”

 

[spidergoat]

The only problem with fundamentalism is the nature of the fundamentals they advocate.

 

[(Q)]

I get the impression that you honestly don't realize that YOU are the idiot here, not Bells. The only reason we keep you around is for entertainment.

You have just shown the ultimate in moderator hypocrisy. Sure, I could call you names, too, but that would be stooping down to your level.

But, thanks for posting this, it is a shining beacon and example for all to see just how much you and the other mods have destroyed this forum by handing out infractions and bans when you are worst of the lot.

Look at what you wrote, then look in the mirror. It's an ugly reflection.

And, not to worry, no one will notice your superiority complex.

 

[(Q)]

To be blunt, the both of you seem to enjoy attacking one another... it has me sitting here wondering how/why that is.

Where do you get that notion? I simply pointed out why Bells is wrong, but instead she decided to get entirely emotional and began ranting.

 

[quinnsong]

Can we please stop this bullshit, why does it have to deteriorate to this kind of personal back and forth, which in the end does nothing but derail the thread. May I ask if the moderators would consider ignoring these posts altogether or have an alternative ongoing thread called Mock Wars With the Moderators and as soon as a moderator sees the thread deteriorating or derailing in this way, take themselves along with offending posters to that thread?

 

[(Q)]

Can you please explain what an "emotional motherhood rant" is? What does that even mean, Q?

It's based on what is termed a "Motherhood Statement".

You can dish out the criticism for theists but you can't take it as an atheist. Why is that?

Sorry, but you appear to be confused, what criticisms are you dishing out? I only see emotional rants in your posts and a lack of reason. If you can actually put some rational words together to form an argument, I'd like to hear it.

As I said before, you're nothing but an atheist fan-boy who just abuses theists because they are theists. It's what you have been doing for years.

So, now you, like Fraggle, are compelled to focus on me personally because you're incapable of forming a rational argument. Well done.

You are incapable of discussing religion or atheism rationally.

Odd, that's exactly what you were doing, I was attempting to get through to you, but instead you offered only an emotional rant.

Remember when you used to stalk Sam across the forum and attack her for her religion, even if she wasn't even discussing religion?

More personal attacks, you really are showing you're not capable of rational discussion. Why are you still a moderator?

Your style of debate is nothing more than 'oh yeah, well you believe in God so ner!'.. And that's it.

I can only conclude you have a reading comprehension problem if that's the only thing you read.

I mean you can keep going with your 'my atheism is bigger than your atheism' thing you have going on there. But I'm not interested.

You are interested because you can't defend yourself, that is the truth. You are lying and you know it. I never said any such thing.

 

[quinnsong]

Are you and Balerion on shifts? Take this shit somewhere else.

 

[(Q)]

Are you and Balerion on shifts? Take this shit somewhere else.

What are you talking about? It is the moderators who started this. Can you not see that?

 

[Kittamaru]

Q, if you and Balerion really view yourselves as so superior... then why not be the "bigger man" and end it?

I have been on the defensive ever since coming into this thread... I have had my religion assaulted, and not even with good logic a lot of the time, been personally insulted, and seen my co-moderators insulted and abused... because of what? Some long-standing grudge?

No, simply put, this thread has been a disaster from the very get go.

 

[quinnsong]

Can we move on from there? We have agreed that some atheists are assholes just like there are assholes in all aspects of society. If this is a thread simply for atheists attacking one another then my fucking bad but I think we should get past that and look for common ground.

What is your view on theism?

 

[(Q)]

Q, if you and Balerion really view yourselves as so superior... then why not be the "bigger man" and end it?

And, where do you get the notion that I view myself as superior? End what? The outrageous behavior of moderators? How can I do that?

I have been on the defensive ever since coming into this thread... I have had my religion assaulted, and not even with good logic a lot of the time, been personally insulted, and seen my co-moderators insulted and abused... because of what? Some long-standing grudge?

Sorry, but first of all, your religion deserves to be assaulted because it is an affront to all the morality and well being of humanity, along with the other religions of the world. Secondly, it is your co-moderators who started this thread calling out atheists and it is your co-moderators tossing out personal insults.

No, simply put, this thread has been a disaster from the very get go.

And, lo and behold, it was a moderator who started the disaster.

 

[(Q)]

...

 

[quinnsong]

Sorry, but first of all, your religion deserves to be assaulted because it is an affront to all the morality and well being of humanity, along with the other religions of the world. Secondly, it is your co-moderators who started this thread calling out atheists and it is your co-moderators tossing out personal insults.

Lol, well that answers my question. So in your world you cannot coexist with theists?

And, lo and behold, it was a moderator who started the disaster.

The truth is you made Tiassa's point.

 

[(Q)]

Lol, well that answers my question. So in your world you cannot coexist with theists?

Are you unaware of what religions teach their followers? Do you not know that it is religions that prohibit coexisting with anyone else who isn't a member of said cult? Religions don't respect me, why should I respect them?

The truth is you made Tiassa's point.

Tiassa made a point based on false premises.

 

[Kittamaru]

Sorry, but first of all, your religion deserves to be assaulted because it is an affront to all the morality and well being of humanity, along with the other religions of the world. Secondly, it is your co-moderators who started this thread calling out atheists and it is your co-moderators tossing out personal insults.

And the truth shall set you free!

This just shows, beyond anything else,what your real problem is... so let me make this abundantly clear:

My religion is my business. You bring it up, I am more than willing to talk about it. If you want to try to sway me that some part of it, or even the whole is wrong somehow, that is fine; I will listen and I will debate. Once you start this "holier than thou" bullshit and go preaching on about how it is an affront to morality... well, then you've just proven yourself a mighty bigot.

Now, (Q), I'm going to give you three choices here... and they are pretty simple:

1) End the pointless hostility and revert to a civil discussion
2) Cease posting in this sub-forum until such a time as you are capable of option 1.
3) Continue verbally abusing and harassing members who believe in some form of religion and find yourself quickly unwelcome at this site.

The choice is simple... either observe and abide by basic human rights (not to mention those rights granted by law to protect against those such as yourself that wish to destroy religion) or leave.

Are you unaware of what religions teach their followers? Do you not know that it is religions that prohibit coexisting with anyone else who isn't a member of said cult? Religions don't respect me, why should I respect them?

Perhaps you should educate yourself before making such wide-reaching and incorrect statements... I would dare you to come to my church for a day and talk to anyone there, especially the pastors... you will find no disrespect and that the idea of peaceful coexistence with those who have different ideas on religion (or even a lack thereof) is a common thread.

What you will find, though, is that once you start berating and attacking the people who hold those beliefs... that others will come to their defense as well. Keep it civil and there is no problem. Start acting like an asshole... well, you'll be treated like an asshole.

 

[(Q)]

And the truth shall set you free!

This just shows, beyond anything else,what your real problem is... so let me make this abundantly clear:

My religion is my business.

Yes, but it is not my business or anyone else, which is why it should always be kept behind closed doors where it belongs. Unfortunately, because of the fact that you and other believers wish to bring it out in public where it offends others, then that religions deserves every bit of criticism it dishes out.

You bring it up, I am more than willing to talk about it. If you want to try to sway me that some part of it, or even the whole is wrong somehow, that is fine; I will listen and I will debate. Once you start this "holier than thou" bullshit and go preaching on about how it is an affront to morality... well, then you've just proven yourself a mighty bigot.

Really? LOL. That's fucking hilarious considering your religion despises me, would have me killed for not being a follower and have me roast for an eternity while you sit laughing. Seriously, the bigotry comes from your religion.

Now, (Q), I'm going to give you three choices here... and they are pretty simple:

1) End the pointless hostility and revert to a civil discussion
2) Cease posting in this sub-forum until such a time as you are capable of option 1.
3) Continue verbally abusing and harassing members who believe in some form of religion and find yourself quickly unwelcome at this site.

The choice is simple... either observe and abide by basic human rights (not to mention those rights granted by law to protect against those such as yourself that wish to destroy religion) or leave.

Is that supposed to be a joke? You want me to leave because you can't handle your religion being criticized?

So, you first send out Fraggle to insult me personally, then you bring the hammer down on me by giving me ultimatums?

You do realize that your religion does not offer basic human rights? There are no laws for wanting religions to go away, and if there were, that would also be an affront to everything reasonable and rational.

 

[Kittamaru]

Yes, but it is not my business or anyone else, which is why it should always be kept behind closed doors where it belongs. Unfortunately, because of the fact that you and other believers wish to bring it out in public where it offends others, then that religions deserves every bit of criticism it dishes out.

Mmm, no. You see, we are protected from bigots like you in that we are allowed a freedom of expression and freedom to worship as we please (within the boundaries of common sense and morality... obviously human sacrifice would be right out). As such, if we wish to pray in public, we can do so. If we wish to say the Pledge of Allegiance and include the phrase "under God", we can do so. Likewise, if you wish to not stand during the Pledge, you may do so. If you do not wish to observe a religions specific

Really? LOL. That's fucking hilarious considering your religion despises me, would have me killed for not being a follower and have me roast for an eternity while you sit laughing. Seriously, the bigotry comes from your religion.

Mmm, again, no. While yes, there are religions out there like that, and even sects of Christianity that believe such nonsense... that isn't what our faith believes. While yes, we believe that part of our responsibility is to offer to teach those who do not follow our faith what it means to be Christian, it is also a part of our faith that we respect those who do not wish to be Christian and that we love them anyway. As Christ said simply "Love thy neighbor". There were no qualifiers on that, no ifs ands or buts... simply "love thy neighbor". As a picture I'm fond of puts it:

Is that supposed to be a joke? You want me to leave because you can't handle your religion being criticized?

So, you first send out Fraggle to insult me personally, then you bring the hammer down on me by giving me ultimatums?

You do realize that your religion does not offer basic human rights? There are no laws for wanting religions to go away, and if there were, that would also be an affront to everything reasonable and rational.

Nope, nope, and nope.

To the first; no joke. I'm not asking you to stop criticizing... indeed, criticism is necessary for growth! What I am saying is to do so RESPECTFULLY and TACTFULLY. Don't just go around all "hurr durr yurr religion is stupid"... that will do nothing but incite anger and, in the end, result in your dismissal.

To the second - I did not send Fraggle, or anyone else, "out" to do anything... last I checked, Fraggle is not some dog I keep on a leash, and his opinions are his own, much like mine. I'm bringing "the hammer" down on you, as you so eloquently put it, because you are being abusive to a large part of the community, atheists included, by your words and actions. Violence begets only violence.

To the third - see the following:

My religion goes beyond basic human rights and extends into basic human respect and the betterment of the whole, not just "those that think like us". If you could take your blinders off for a moment, you might be able to see that.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Moderators behaving badly yet again. You guys make me sick. What does it say about a forum that in any given thread, the moderators are the ones acting the worst?

Uh, how many times have you been banned for "acting badly?"

 

[Magical Realist]

”It's rare to walk anywhere in public and not see some religious advertisement every few moments. Imagine if the cause of non-belief were promoted to even one hundredth this degree? Theists would be totally outraged. Yet if an atheist decides to react to the overwhelming pro-religion propaganda that's in his face on a daily basis, he's labeled as "militant", "intolerant" and "extremist."

—Morgan Matthew, Why atheists care about religion

Militant atheism is a derogatory neologism associated primarily with the New Atheism movement, used to describe atheists and secularists who actively campaign against religion or religious influence in public life or government ruling. Countering religion, criticising it and exposing it to rational argument is somehow seen as wrong. Militant atheism is generally thought of as "being on the rise," particularly given the religious turmoil spurred on by 9/11.

Militant activities and double standards

Actions that can get an atheist branded as "militant" include:

Campaigning against public and enforced prayer — particularly in schools.
Holding rallies against religious figures.
Questioning public policy based on religion such as running abstinence programs rather than teaching about contraception.
Questioning religious authority.
Vocally expressing disbelief in God.
Working against discrimination on religious grounds.
Writing books.

Basically, any vocal activity by an atheist or group of atheists will be called "militant" by some religious pundit or another. At the same time, religious groups and individuals are free to openly profess their beliefs and proselytize without much public outcry. Thus, outspoken religious belief and atheism are held to a double standard, where religious criticism of atheism is held as conventional wisdom, but atheistic criticism of religion is regarded as controversial."---http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Militant_atheism

 

[GeoffP]

Uh, how many times have you been banned for "acting badly?"

He's not a mod, Fraggle. Things have to change; I think you feel this too.