A challenge to Atheists

garbonzo said:
No one has Watchtowers back that far except for a few collectors and the Society themselves
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No one?
Library of Congress included? British Library?

I can't find an official source for Watchtower, Oct 1879, p. 4. Your not going to take someone's word for it, are you?
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http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/zwt0647.htm
Page 4 isn't available, but the other pages certainly lend substance to the basic idea: it's talking about weddings/ brides and grooms.
Regardless of the text of the "prophecy" you're still left with the fact that 1914 was not the first date to be given in a JW "prediction".
 
Kapyong said:
Gday,



Thank you for that :)
It increases my respect for you - most posters in places like this cannot admit error.




Oh yes, their decisions were important and certainly indirectly influenced which books came to be accepted. (At that time it appears Hermas and Barnabas were still in the canon. But by late 3rd C. it was settled.)


Of course, what THEY considered important issues were a little odd to modern ears -

Here is the FIRST Canon in their list :
"If you chopped you own balls off - you can't be a priest; but if a Greek doctor did it - then that's OK."(Paraphrased a bit :)


K.
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Then who put the Bible together? The Unknown?
 
Dywyddyr said:
No one?
Library of Congress included? British Library?


http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/zwt0647.htm
Page 4 isn't available, but the other pages certainly lend substance to the basic idea: it's talking about weddings/ brides and grooms.
Regardless of the text of the "prophecy" you're still left with the fact that 1914 was not the first date to be given in a JW "prediction".
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Yeah, it seems to go hand and hand with the book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds;_or_Plan_of_Redemption

Which still states 1914 as significant.
 
garbonzo said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds;_or_Plan_of_Redemption
This.
So your first citation has been blown out of the barrel, and if they had the belief of 1914 in 1877, I have little reason to believe that they would change it suddenly in 1979 and then change it back in 1890!
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Excuse me?
How was my first "blown out"?
Christ's second presence began in the year 1874 CE
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It STILL doesn't alter the fact that 1914 was not the first date they made a "prediction" for.
Nor does it alter the fact that they didn't predict WWI but something that didn't happen.

Also note they stated "and this forty years [1877-1914] upon which we have now entered is to be such ‘a time of trouble as never was since there was a nation" i.e. the "trouble" would END in 1914. They got that slightly wrong...
 
Dywyddyr said:
Excuse me?
How was my first "blown out"?

It STILL doesn't alter the fact that 1914 was not the first date they made a "prediction" for.
Nor does it alter the fact that they didn't predict WWI but something that didn't happen.

Also note they stated "and this forty years [1877-1914] upon which we have now entered is to be such ‘a time of trouble as never was since there was a nation" i.e. the "trouble" would END in 1914. They got that slightly wrong...
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As I've stated before and will state again. We are talking about the YEAR being significant. 1914 and 1874 were both recoginized as significant at the same time. It's basically a tie, but since 1874 HAD ALREADY PASSED (or currently in), 1874 was now insignificant as a PREDICTION year. :p 1914 was the real prediction here. 1914, 1914, 1914. WWI, WWI, WWI.

I feel it important to re-state that I'm not saying JWs predicted WWI: they didn't say a World War is going to break out, etc. But they made 1914 significant, which it was.

You seem to be cleverly ignoring my analogies which make this quite clear. Specifically the 9/11 one.
 
garbonzo said:
As I've stated before a blah blah blah
You seem to be cleverly ignoring my analogies which make this quite clear. Specifically the 9/11 one.
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And YOU are still ignoring that they got ONE "right" (but incredibly wrong*) out all of their predictions.
It's called shotgunning. And relying on the gullible.

* 1914 started WWI, as you persist in pointing out, possibly the bloodiest conflict ever in history up to that time. Yet their "prediction" was that 1914 would see an end to 40 years of the worst troubles ever to happen.
 
Every generation wants to be the one . Every generation is the one . It is like each generation has to learn all over again , but this is the generation . Your generation . Our generation . What do we do with it? Lay down and just die ? Not Me . I am going to change the world !! Are you with Me ? Yeah Baby !!!
 
Dywyddyr said:
And YOU are still ignoring that they got ONE "right" (but incredibly wrong*) out all of their predictions.
It's called shotgunning. And relying on the gullible.

* 1914 started WWI, as you persist in pointing out, possibly the bloodiest conflict ever in history up to that time. Yet their "prediction" was that 1914 would see an end to 40 years of the worst troubles ever to happen.
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The fact that they got ONE right is so astounding that it is enough. I guess this is going nowhere, so I guess I will just send this letter in and see what they say and we can continue then.
 
garbonzo said:
The fact that they got ONE right is so astounding that it is enough
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Then you have a stupendously low threshold of gullibility.
If you throw enough darts while blindfolded you'll get a bullseye eventually.
And one more time: They didn't get it right.
Still, after the 18[sup]th[/sup] has passed I'll expect dog-like devotion from you.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Wrong. Still.
They threw many, and you're still conveniently ignoring all of the misses.

And, if you ARE going to misquote me you could at least get the grammar correct.
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The first throw hit. That's all that matters.
What grammar? Don't tell me you wanted a dash or a semicolon somewhere?

We went through about 100 posts today :p
 
Their prediction currently is that the USA is going to fall as a world power (this was even before the stock market crash), and the United Nations will step in, making them the 8th Biblical world power which will rule only for a short time. After that, all of Babylon the Great, or false Christianity (the Catholics mainly and others), will fall and then all of false religion will fall. Shorty after that (or immediately after), the world will attack God's people (Jehovah's Witnesses), and then God will step in (no mention of how long it will take, but shouldn't be too long) with his War of Armageddon.

Glenn Beck is already saying this! O.O Watching Glenn Beck is also another reason why I'm still hanging on. It sure looks like the US is going to go bankrupt to me...
 
garbonzo said:
The first throw hit.
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Wrong.
They claimed that Jesus had arrived five years earlier and that was wrong. In other words they couldn't even get a "prediction" about something that had supposedly happened before they made the claim correct.

That's all that matters.
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Great. I suppose you have the same attitude toward your pay packet? The sports team you support? Any airline flights you take?
"Well yeah, my pay's always wrong, my team always loses and I never arrive where I want to go: but they got it right THE FIRST TIME so I'll stick with them".
Can't you see how utterly stupid that is?

What grammar? Don't tell me you wanted a dash or a semicolon somewhere?
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Originally NOT Posted by Dywyddyr
If you throw 1 dart while blindfolded and you get a bullseye, you're either incredibly lucky or incredibly skilled.
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