90 year old man (and two pastors) arrested for feeding the homeless

youreyes said:
Somehow I thought you were older...so your telling me that every weekend you give out free food to homeless?
Click to expand...
A lot of people do. Why do you sound so surprised by this?

Look I admit you are doing the world good but maybe having an organization that doesnt just disperse food but also advises homeless on how to get on the straight path would be more suitable. I am 27, i chose an engineering lifestyle, so I guess I dont do much help to humanity for now, but maybe later I will be useful.
Click to expand...
Before you start them on the path to wealth and greatness, you need to feed them first and treat them with dignity and care.

You need to make them feel wanted and a part of society. By banning feeding homeless people, the Government is sending the message that they are unwanted, that they are not even worthy of food and clean water as human beings. That they are not even humans. In short, the Government is treating them like stray animals that they just hope will move on to somewhere else because they are unsightly. And it is absolutely despicable.

These are human beings, with human rights and denying them food in the hope they leave, when they are already so poor and have nothing is disgusting.
 
Bells said:
A lot of people do. ...
These are human beings, with human rights and denying them food in the hope they leave, when they are already so poor and have nothing is disgusting.
Click to expand...

Sure Bells, I am sure you will go ahead and write them 2000$ check for the homeless food. Sure. Loud talk and no substance.

If you read what I wrote prior, direct feeding on a street to homeless brings nothing but more problems in the future for the city. This food service needs to be organized on a government controlled basis, so that the homeless do not get accustomed to doing nothing.

If you ever been to Honolulu, you would understand this problem.
 
Last edited:
youreyes said:
Sure Bells, I am sure you will go ahead and write them 2000$ check for the homeless food. Sure. Loud talk and no substance.

If you read what I wrote prior, direct feeding on a street to homeless brings nothing but more problems in the future for the city. This food service needs to be organized on a government controlled basis, so that the homeless do not get accustomed to doing nothing.

If you ever been to Honolulu, you would understand this problem.
Click to expand...
The Government is refusing to feed them or to help them. In short, the Government is going out of its way to make being homeless virtually illegal. How will this help the people who are homeless right now?

By allowing people to provide aid and even shelter, it reduces the burden on the city and allows people to get involved on the ground, which is necessary, instead of having to deal with a million miles of red tape with nothing on the other side of it for the people who need it the most.

Feeding and helping the destitute and the poor can never create problems. It alleviates it. Unless of course you mean problem that you believe homeless people will just rely on this help and do nothing to help themselves? In which case I have to laugh at you. Because not feeding is going to create even more problems plus it is downright stupid to force people to remain hungry because feeding them might mean they live on our streets.

The treatment of the poor by the wealthy is pretty shameful for the most part. Certainly, there are many who go out of their way to give as much as they can, money and timewise. But the attitude towards homeless people is cruel. Many of them are war veterans and the mentally ill and the unemployed who have nothing, no support, nothing to rely on. Others are young children who are on the street because of circumstances at home led them to be there.

I think making helping the poor illegal shows a complete lack of care and understanding for a portion of society that is constantly overlooked and downtrodden as a result.

And frankly, your attitude and your accusations (like what you just lobbed at me me) is exactly the kind of attitude that results in helping the poor becoming an illegal act.
 
youreyes said:
Somehow I thought you were older...so your telling me that every weekend you give out free food to homeless?

Look I admit you are doing the world good but maybe having an organization that doesnt just disperse food but also advises homeless on how to get on the straight path would be more suitable. I am 27, i chose an engineering lifestyle, so I guess I dont do much help to humanity for now, but maybe later I will be useful.
Click to expand...
Anyone can help humanity. It starts by changing your attitude, not with an amount of money. And yes, I do it every weekend. I often get my Rotary Group involved and I do like to bring along one of my mentors to help most of whom are younger than you are. I am really looking forward to Thanksgiving because it's starting to get cold and at least I am thankful that we have a good group of people willing to spend time outside of their families to fill the bellies of someone who can't otherwise feed themselves. It's easy to volunteer, there are tons of resources to do so. As you have said that you know, being cold when you are homeless really sucks for a young person. Imagine when you are 70 or 80.

Yeah, there are slackers, lazy people and addicts among the mass of homeless people. But the real way to help them is by intergrating them back into the community, not making them feel like outsiders and criminals.
 
youreyes said:
Somehow I thought you were older...so your telling me that every weekend you give out free food to homeless?

Look I admit you are doing the world good but maybe having an organization that doesnt just disperse food but also advises homeless on how to get on the straight path would be more suitable. I am 27, i chose an engineering lifestyle, so I guess I dont do much help to humanity for now, but maybe later I will be useful.
Click to expand...

Yes - simply feeding them is not going to solve the issue... but the question here is... what IS the issue?

Take my wife and I - I work a full time IT job (salaried at 37.5k annually before taxes and deductions) - she works a full time job in medicare billing (14 an hour or something like that) and a part time job (her previous full time job) as an assistant manager at the local grocery store (she's been there for over a decade, and is making just above 10 an hour)

Together, after taxes, insurance, etc, we bring home about $1500-1700 every two weeks (depending on how many hours she works at her part time job) - yes, after taxes and insurance, COMBINED we bring home about the same every pay day as my GROSS paycheck before deductions. As an example, I only get to keep about 67% of my paycheck (37500 / 26 (biweekly pay = 1442.30, yet I only actually bring home about $967, and 967/1442 = 67%)

Now... we both have two degrees (I have an Associates in Computer Networking and Information Technology and an Associates in Business; she has an Associates in Elementary Education (was pursuing her BA until the school budgets here got slashed and schools stopped hiring) and an Associates in Theraputic Massage) - I was fortunate to get the job I have now, as I didn't have the number of years of experience they wanted - my position SHOULD have started closer to 55k annually (and I'm hoping to negotiate a pay raise to split the difference soon).

We pay $890 a month for rent (one bedroom townhouse, covers water, sewage, trash... basically every utility except power and cable), about $80 a month in electricity, Approximately $350 a month for our home internet/tv/phone and Cell phone combined (same provider - I'd love to drop the cable/tv/home phone service but I need internet since I'm on call and need to be able to remote in for work 24/7 and right now our provider is the only one in our area so... yeah), $200 a month for car payment, and $400 a month on student loans. That's before things such as car insurance (required by law), groceries, medical bills, medication costs (I have eosinophilic esophagitis, she is Type 2 diabetic) her student loans, etc.

We're just barely scraping by... and even then, sometimes bills have to be paid a week or two late.

What is a person who is homeless, who has little or no secondary education, maybe some basic trades skills, going to be able to do for a job that will cover realistic living expenses? Even if they were to take on two full time jobs, more than likely they would be minimum or near-minimum wage (lets be generous and say two jobs, $8.50 an hour each, 40 hours a week each). 80*2*10 = 1360 gross income - if they get to keep more of their income than I do (say they have an absolute minimum for health coverage and a lower tax bracket) - lets assume they get to keep 70% of their income. 1360*.70 =952.

Wait... there's a problem. At least in our area, most of these entry level jobs aren't full time - they range from 15-25 hours a week. Okay, lets redo the math assuming between the two jobs they can work 50 hours a week. 50*2*8.5 = 850 *.75 = 595. So $595 every two weeks, or 1190 a month. Assuming they get a cheap one bedroom studio (about $500 a month around here, utilities not included, and most require you to have renters insurance), use a bare minimum of their required utilities (lets lowball it to be $200 a month), eat a light but healthy diet ($50 a week), don't have a car, don't have frills (tv, internet, phone, etc), and have basic low-end renters insurance (I pay about 120 a year, so 10 a month) that puts them at 1190 - (500+200+10+50) or 1190 - 760 = 430 left over. That's assuming they find two jobs they can walk to work in, don't have to buy clothing, don't have to pay any kind of medical bills, an above minimum wage job... a lot of assumptions that are being pegged towards the higher end of the spectrum.

Say this person gets a full time job as a cook at McDonalds - 7.25 an hour for 37.5 hours a week, over two weeks, comes to 543.75 * 75% (being really generous on how much he can keep) = 407.81 biweekly, or 815.62 a month. Subtract the same required bills as above, or 760, and he's left with about 55 dollars... and that's JUST the necessities.

I'm not saying it can't be done... but the odds are stacked against them... and now, we're asking them to do all this with NO legal place to sleep and NO food in their stomach...
 
Kittamaru said:
Say this person gets a full time job as a cook at McDonalds - 7.25 an hour for 37.5 hours a week, over two weeks, comes to 543.75 * 75% (being really generous on how much he can keep) = 407.81 biweekly, or 815.62 a month. Subtract the same required bills as above, or 760, and he's left with about 55 dollars... and that's JUST the necessities.

I'm not saying it can't be done... but the odds are stacked against them... and now, we're asking them to do all this with NO legal place to sleep and NO food in their stomach...
Click to expand...

That's actually a really great point. It's hard enough for elderly people to find employment when they do have a home.... imagine trying to do so when you can't put an address down or guarantee you can show up showered.

Our government relies too heavily on non-profits to take care of the elderly before they get sick, and only help when they are hospitalized for severe mental or physical issues. And even sometimes then they are turned away if they don't have medicare/medicaid beds available.
 
Kittamaru said:
Take my wife and I - I work a full time IT job

... after taxes, insurance, etc, we bring home about $1500-1700 every two weeks (depending on how many hours she works at her part time job) - yes, after taxes and insurance, COMBINED we bring home about the same every pay day as my GROSS paycheck before deductions.

... Say this person gets a full time job as a cook at McDonalds - 7.25 an hour for 37.5 hours a week, over two weeks, comes to 543.75 * 75% (being really generous on how much he can keep) = 407.81 biweekly, or 815.62 a month. Subtract the same required bills as above, or 760, and he's left with about 55 dollars... and that's JUST the necessities.

I'm not saying it can't be done... but the odds are stacked against them... and now, we're asking them to do all this with NO legal place to sleep and NO food in their stomach...
Click to expand...

You know why people come to USA? Pursuit of money. They had all their lives to build up a career and to build up some sort of savings. I am sorry, but majority of people who go to military are those who failed their SAT's and flunked out of college. They never did get their Bachelors and are now struggling at low end jobs. Its a loophole.

What should they have done? Improved themselves and their lives, strived to save for the future, excelled at what they do, moved to a low unemployment state, but solved their problems in a logical and efficient manner. Instead, instead of just doing nothing and staying at McDonalds job.

Now I proposed in my previous post the Florida follow example of Utah based on an economical proof that providing free housing is cheaper for the state that providing all those healthcare services and police costs for the homeless.

Now I understand your point on how hard it is to start off working at a low end job at 7.25 an hour and make ends meet. But in all honesty, it is all about persevearance, so making EXCUSES to self and those who didn't bother to invest a penny into their education, well that isn't going to cut it.

I want you to realize the kind of problems a city like Honolulu faces if the homeless are just let to roam free...businesses are closed down in Waikiki as a result, the city overall faces major losses in tourism, and the constant nagging of the homeless on the streets is not just unsanitary it creates hazards for those who come to Hawaii to relax. Same goes with Florida.

Utah had it figured out, I strive for Florida to take the steps in the right direction.
 
It is interesting that a compromise can't be found. A food truck that serves whatever to those who buy from it could be used to give out the food. A better location that would be best for both communities would also be a way to go about it.
 
cosmictraveler said:
It is interesting that a compromise can't be found. A food truck that serves whatever to those who buy from it could be used to give out the food. A better location that would be best for both communities would also be a way to go about it.
Click to expand...

it is more than just giving out food, it is about putting these people to work and not having them slacking off in the center of the city just because they dont have to pay for the bus fees.
 
youreyes said:
You know why people come to USA? Pursuit of money. They had all their lives to build up a career and to build up some sort of savings. I am sorry, but majority of people who go to military are those who failed their SAT's and flunked out of college. They never did get their Bachelors and are now struggling at low end jobs. Its a loophole.

What should they have done? Improved themselves and their lives, strived to save for the future, excelled at what they do, moved to a low unemployment state, but solved their problems in a logical and efficient manner. Instead, instead of just doing nothing and staying at McDonalds job.

Now I proposed in my previous post the Florida follow example of Utah based on an economical proof that providing free housing is cheaper for the state that providing all those healthcare services and police costs for the homeless.

Now I understand your point on how hard it is to start off working at a low end job at 7.25 an hour and make ends meet. But in all honesty, it is all about persevearance, so making EXCUSES to self and those who didn't bother to invest a penny into their education, well that isn't going to cut it.

I want you to realize the kind of problems a city like Honolulu faces if the homeless are just let to roam free...businesses are closed down in Waikiki as a result, the city overall faces major losses in tourism, and the constant nagging of the homeless on the streets is not just unsanitary it creates hazards for those who come to Hawaii to relax. Same goes with Florida.

Utah had it figured out, I strive for Florida to take the steps in the right direction.
Click to expand...

And I understand where the city is coming from - these homeless vagabonds are tarnishing their image. What Utah is doing is absolutely phenomenal! And the homes don't have to be anything spectacular - hell, give a homeless man a place where he sleep and be warm and dry, maybe somewhere to shower and cook some basic meals, and it will do incredible things for his self-worth and motivation.

I think... more than anything, that's the problem I have with what Florida is doing... these are people already at the bottom... and now we're taking away what little self-esteem and self-worth they may have had by saying that them being down on their luck is illegal...
 
Kittamaru said:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homeless-charges/index.html
Click to expand...

"A new ordinance banning public food sharing."
Someone had to propose that, and a majority had to agree with it.
What kind of people are they?
I bet they call themselves Christians.
Didn't Jesus engage in some public food sharing activity once?

Fort Lauderdale is just one of many cities to pass such laws:

[/QUOTE]
A new study by the National Law Centre on Homelessness and Poverty (NLCHP) tracks similar attempts to criminalize street living in 187 cities in the US.

“Many cities have chosen to criminally punish people living on the street for doing what any human being must do to survive,” it states.


[/QUOTE]
http://www.tumblr.com/search/banning homeless
 
Last edited:
Captain Kremmen said:
"A new ordinance banning food sharing."
Someone had to propose that, and a majority had to agree with it.
What kind of people are they?
Click to expand...
People that never have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, would be my guess.
 
friendlp.nfo:o:15aa.jpg


Stop feeding those five thousand people, you criminals!
 
youreyes said:
it is more than just giving out food, it is about putting these people to work and not having them slacking off in the center of the city just because they dont have to pay for the bus fees.
Click to expand...

I'd think that keeping them alive would be more important than finding work for people who don't have a place to live or a way to travel to any jobs that might be offered. Many of these homeless are alcoholics or drug abusers so they will never get a job if they can't even stay sober.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
"A new ordinance banning public food sharing."
Someone had to propose that, and a majority had to agree with it.
What kind of people are they?
I bet they call themselves Christians.
Didn't Jesus engage in some public food sharing activity once?

Fort Lauderdale is just one of many cities to pass such laws:

A new study by the National Law Centre on Homelessness and Poverty (NLCHP) tracks similar attempts to criminalize street living in 187 cities in the US.

“Many cities have chosen to criminally punish people living on the street for doing what any human being must do to survive,” it states.

http://www.tumblr.com/search/banning homeless
Click to expand...

You need to remember that the people who oppose helping or feeding the homeless do not view Jesus Christ as told in the Bible.

There was this story, not that long ago, where a Church in a fairly affluent suburb was gifted a sculpture. The sculpture was of a homeless Jesus, sleeping on a park bench, wrapped in a blanket with its bare feet exposed, showing the crucifixion marks. When it became clear that it was actually a sculpture of Jesus Christ, on Church property and that it was placed there to teach people about who Jesus was and what he was meant to be about, people complained. The police were even called, because someone thought a homeless person was sleeping on a bench near the entrance of the Church. The woman who called the police had this to say about the message of Jesus, the needy, the homeless and the message of care and compassion. She found it offensive that anyone could picture or imagine that Jesus was poor, homeless and needy and needing of help.

Earlier this year, a woman in Davidson, N.C., called police fearing for the safety of her upscale community after believing that the statue was a vagrant sleeping outside St. Alban's Episcopal Church.

Cindy Castano Swannack, the woman who had called police, told NBC Charlotte that even after she discovered the person she saw is only a sculpture of Jesus depicted as a homeless person, she further commented that the image is offensive.

"Jesus is not a vagrant; Jesus is not a helpless person who needs our help. We need someone who is capable of meeting our needs, not someone who is also needy," Swannack asserted.
.​

While we may have a chuckle and a laugh at the thought that someone called the cops on Jesus, the underlying message is clear. To many of these so called Christians, Jesus was not poor. He was not homeless. He was a wealthy white man with light brown hair and blue eyes as he is often portrayed by many Christian denominations. These are the people such laws appeal to. There is no such thing as care and compassion. To these people, homelessness is a blight on their pretty and upscale neighbourhoods. Not something Jesus would have approved of in their eyes. And providing them with food? Hell no. To these people, that is a huge no no because it might encourage them to stay around to be fed. This is how many Christians have subverted Jesus to suit their own ideals about wealth and prosperity.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
Yes, and the kind of people who believe that their success owes nothing to luck or privilege,
and is solely the result of their hard work.
Click to expand...

Not always. There are some that are born into money and privilege as the Presidents children, bankers kids and those with CEO's for parents.
 
Bells said:
A lot of people do. Why do you sound so surprised by this?


Before you start them on the path to wealth and greatness, you need to feed them first and treat them with dignity and care.

You need to make them feel wanted and a part of society. By banning feeding homeless people, the Government is sending the message that they are unwanted, that they are not even worthy of food and clean water as human beings. That they are not even humans. In short, the Government is treating them like stray animals that they just hope will move on to somewhere else because they are unsightly. And it is absolutely despicable.

These are human beings, with human rights and denying them food in the hope they leave, when they are already so poor and have nothing is disgusting.
Click to expand...


Many of these homeless are drug users and alcoholics and will never comply to the standards of a homeless shelter let alone a job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top