Baron Max said:
Oh, god! It's not a parallel between drunks and homos, it's a parallel between the right to make LAWS for those groups of people!! Why can't you read?
I could ask you the same question, but then I already know that your problem is not in literacy but in critical thinking. Since you want to pretend that you're completely dense; how are homosexuals enough like drunk drivers that legislating against them is justifiable? If we can just make up our minds to do these sorts of things willy nilly without any rhyme or reason, then why couldn't we pass a law that says that all straight white Christian males must be drawn and quartered? Have you ever considered that the difference between a democracy and mob rule is minority protections, so that the majority can not dictate every aspect of a smaller group’s lives?
Baron Max said:
I think I've said it three times now!
Yes, you have, and as
I've said, as much as you may like the sound of your own voice, repetition of a flawed argument does not make it correct.
Baron Max said:
In the same way we say drunk driving is criminal .....by creating laws that say so!!!!!
So there is no definition or distinction between just a normal act or a criminal act outside of what is said about that particular act on some piece of paper? How do people decide what to pass measures on if this is the case? In the absence of written law are there any criminal acts? I would submit that you've got no fucking idea what you're talking about. Take a moment to really think about these things,
why do we have the laws we do? And don't tell me that it's because it's what the people wanted, for one thing that's not necessarily correct, but even if it were, then
why did they want such laws?
Baron Max said:
A drunk driver WOULD NOT break any previous laws UNTIL he had an accident ...but society has deemed that he MIGHT have an accident, so we create laws against drunk driving. It's just another discriminatory law against ONE GROUP of people -- drunks!
And rightly so, as the average person has a serious vested interest in governing such behavior - their own safety! There is no such equivalent for same sex marriage.
Baron Max said:
Same-sex marriage will be the same type of law ...society doesn't like it, doesn't want it, so we'll create laws to prevent it. Simple.
Honestly now, Max, you're trying to sound stupid, aren't you? I mean I wasn't going to call you on it before, but I think that this statement constitutes a willful act to come off like a completely empty headed dolt. Do you pause to think for even an instant before you write this stuff down?
Why has society deemed these things wrong? And moreover, from where does their authority over both of these matters come from? I'd like to leave you to answer the questions for yourself, but you've already shown time and time again that your critical thinking skills are tragically sub-par.
Drunk drivers pose a very real danger to the safety of others, as such people have a right to have some say about the issue. There is simply no criteria which gives a valid authority to anyone who wants to get involved in who complete strangers marry within the boundaries of mutually consenting non-related adults (let's not get into those other issues, as they are, and have been, threads in and of themselves).
Baron Max said:
It's just a law, like any other law ....society wanted it, so they created it. Society doesn't want homos to marry, so society will create laws to prevent it
And homosexuals are not a part of American society? That's news to me. If you don't consider homosexuals a part of
your society, I don't see how even in your own mind you feel that there can be any grounds for others to have a say in the issue. If society is unaffected, then why should they be calling the shots?
Baron Max said:
A drunk driver, just like any other driver, does NOT cause ANY damage or death ....UNTIL... he has an accident! But notice that that's also true of any other driver. So why are we singling out, discriminating, against drunks? Ahhh, because he MIGHT have an accident! And we, members of society, don't like to gamble ....so we created laws... we decided to discriminate against drunks!!! ...because he MIGHT have an accident and hurt someone. ....might! Just like regular drivers MIGHT have accidents and hurt someone.
If you're trying to convince me that there's no genuine distinction in the level of threat created by a drunk driver vs. a sober and otherwise capable driver, then I'd have to ask whether you'd rather have me throw a bullet at you or fire it from a gun.
Taking the analogy a little further, being that you've finally begun to distinguish between criminality and non-criminality, what do you feel might happen if same sex marriages are recognized by our government? We'll be happy, but not so deliriously happy that we'll run red lights and plow into you at 80mph.
Baron Max said:
Oh, but YOU want to be able to walk in demonstrations and protests? You want to be able to demand marriage certificates? You want to be able to demand the right to adopt children? ......yet you wnat the rest of us to "shut up and leave you alone"?? Duh?? Is that the way you think society should act?
Yes, I should hope that the rest of society should have enough of a backbone. If there's one thing that the homosexual community knows very well, it's that when we sit around and just try to trust people's better nature to overcome their prejudices and hatreds things tend to go downhill and get very ugly. You do realize that
you are the reason for these protests and demonstrations, don't you? Without you we could just sit back relax and enjoy our equal footing and fair shake.
Baron Max said:
But don't you think drunks feel the same way? So should we shut up and leave them alone also? If later, they have an accident and kill someone, THEN we can arrest them and throw 'em in jail.
No, certainly not. As I have said there is the distinction of public danger. I think that even regular drinkers understand the danger which drunk drivers pose on our roads and highways. They can not be left alone because despite their own intentions they can not leave our safety alone. I hope you'll note how this situation differs from same-sex marriage.
Baron Max said:
Many people feel the same way about homos!!
Well I'm glad that you don't feel yourself to be too big a man to resort to mindless bigotry. Some people think the earth is 6,000 years old, but they still drive cars fueled by petroleum and get elictricity from burning coal. It's ok for people to think stupid things so long as they agree to live in a world governed by scientific and reasoned learning.
Baron Max said:
Yes ...society enacts laws and rules that it thinks are appropriate for all of it's members ....without regard to what some might think is "discriminatory" laws and rules!
Appropriate for
all of it's members? Then how do you explain the double standard? If homosexuals are members of society and they do not get to dictate who straight people can marry, or some similar invasive micromanagement of their lives, how can we discuss this issue in universal terms?
Baron Max said:
No, absolutely NOT! However, if those "life decisions" are made WITHIN a society, then those "life decisions" must conform to the general laws and rules of that society ....as deemed neccesary by the members of that society.
And what ever happened to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You're sounding awfully authoritarian here, you know. I wonder how you might feel if the UN decided that all of America needed to shut down it's polluting businesses, and then used (some imaginary) army to enforce it's resolution? That sure would be fair to the US, wouldn't it?
Baron Max said:
What other member of a society can just make or break any fuckin' law or rule that they don't like? And what should happen to those members who do it? And if it does happen, what's to happen to that society? Can it remain as the same society?
Think of these questions as they apply to slavery, Jim Crow laws, or Women's Suffrage. Should blacks and women had the right to get all uppity and demand that laws persecuting them should be removed? What has happened to American society as a result?