Zionist piracy

[S.A.M.]

You are forgetting one thing. Israel does not care.

Israelis may not care about other people but like all bullies they are supreme cowards. Which is why all the dead on the activist ships are not Israelis, the 600 activists on board could have killed them so easily if they were so inclined. All the photos of axes and knives do not change the fact that the blubbering bawling commandos had nothing worse than a good thrashing given to them by the activists. No one chopped off their heads and arms, which wouldn't have been difficult if they had such premeditated violence in mind. But who will defend the activists from those cowardly bullies who call themselves soldiers then shoot people in the back of their heads?

Iran is doing what we call political posturing

Of course. But they are not Turkey or Egypt and Israel knows they cannot be bought easily. They have their own problems to solve with the sanctions and maybe, just maybe, this is an opportunity for them to do so. Either way, Israel loses.

So what does Israel want more? To sustain the blockade of Gaza or war with Iran? Iran has given them the choice by offering both on the same platter, but with utter morons like Nutanyoo and Lieberman on board who knows what their chocie will be?

 

[Asguard]

bells, how long are we actually delaying the war though?

You say that israil will do whatever it wants no matter what, the international community (even eventually the US) will not put up with that sort of loss of life for ever and will eventually atack. maybe its better to get it over now, i mean if they kill the turkish PM then its on for young and old and yes alot of innocents will die but is that going to be more or less than would die anyway?

 

[S.A.M.]

If there was a smart leader in Israel, he would use all the publicity to end the blockade and invite the Iranians and Hamas for talks. But Israel is a ship of fools.

 

[Bells]

If there was a smart leader in Israel, he would use all the publicity to end the blockade and invite the Iranians and Hamas for talks. But Israel is a ship of fools.

Unfortunately the last smart leader they had was murdered in 1995.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

LOL! I could hear those talks now.

IS: Stop your nuke program

IR: No! Let's negotiate you leaving the region'

IS: No

Hamas: We want everything from 67'

IS: After you change your charter

Hamas: After you change the border

IS: No, No, No


You can only have talks with those whom you can compromise and negotiate otherwise there isn't much to talk about:shrug:

 

[hypewaders]

When unquestioning military and moral charity to Israel is cut off and no superpower nanny applies for the job, there will be much for Israel to talk about with her neighbors and the wider international community. There's nothing unique or uniquely intractable about the Israel/Palestine standoff.

As soon as artificial supports are removed from zionism and apartheid, then Jewish life, communities and institutions in the Mideast will begin to assert themselves in just and sustainable ways, and free of the poison pill of ethnic separatism/supremacism. Jewish life in the Mideast can be empowered by the discrediting and collapse of apartheid in Israel.

As soon as zionist apartheid and its disproportionate support from the USA are removed as the primary political distractor and tool of corrupt regimes all over the Mideast, there will be many vexing problems that will receive the examination and negotiations necessary for solutions.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

No its not unique in anyway save the fact that the terms of demands are intractable. There has never been a time in modern history where there wasn't a 'superpower nanny'. The only thing that changes is which nation for their own self-interests these 'superpower nannies' decide to adopt.

I do agree with you that Israel needs to stop using apartheid tactics. It only muddies the waters for them.

 

[hypewaders]

No, we're in a post-colonial world. There are powers and wannabes still trying to play that played-out game- but the asymmetrical means of resisting imperialism/superhegemons are becoming common demonstrated knowledge with replicable techniques and results. From here forward powers can be more rapidly humiliated the more politically-entrenched and self-confident their military institutions.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

So what are you saying that China for example will give up its ties to developing countries and take its hands out of creating power blocks in its own region? I doubt that very much even if the US took its hand out of the pot first.

You underestimate the nature of power. Most of the deals made are economic in nature not military. And I don't think any large nation is going to undermine the military-industrial complex when they know it will only mean a change of hands, not its dissolution.

But why don't you give me an example of why you think this will occur? What changes do you see globally that supports this view that you have?

 

[CheskiChips]

When unquestioning military and moral charity to Israel is cut off and no superpower nanny applies for the job, there will be much for Israel to talk about with her neighbors and the wider international community. There's nothing unique or uniquely intractable about the Israel/Palestine standoff.

As soon as artificial supports are removed from zionism and apartheid, then Jewish life, communities and institutions in the Mideast will begin to assert themselves in just and sustainable ways, and free of the poison pill of ethnic separatism/supremacism. Jewish life in the Mideast can be empowered by the discrediting and collapse of apartheid in Israel.

As soon as zionist apartheid and its disproportionate support from the USA are removed as the primary political distractor and tool of corrupt regimes all over the Mideast, there will be many vexing problems that will receive the examination and negotiations necessary for solutions.

What's "Zionist apartheid"? Are you sure you're not making things up again...or under the hand of strong propaganda? You should try harder to learn things and spend less time yapping about them.

 

[Billy T]

I think the Iron dome is an investment project which is mistaken for a present-problem project. It's somewhat sold to outsiders as a defense mechanism against Katusha rockets, but in actuality it's a defense mechanism against more advanced missiles which may or may not be launched by Iran in war. It's also more effective in destroying missiles which may hit high value targets such as the middle of Jerusalem or Tel Aviv.

In general...it would be effective at shooting down larger missiles fired from longer distances. I think it is the Fajr-5 missile which Iran keeps trying to get to Gaza...that is a larger payload of weaponry and much more significant damage would be the result.

I completely agree with you on this. Have said essentially the same; but Iron Dome missiles are too expensive, and perhaps not even technically able, to stop the short range, cheap, crude, unguided stove pipe rockets fired from Gaza at nearby Israeli villages like Sderot, etc.

For defeating them, the CIWS of even several generations back, long ago replaced on Israeli ships by more modern versions, which can fire even faster and still never jam, are more than adequate against these crude Gaza missiles. If they did not Jam, the first generation could kill even the weaving, supersonic, sea-skimming, French Exocet! They jammed only rarely and never would if the firing rate were only 10% of max rate - still more than adequate for the slow Gaza rockets. (In the early days, jamming did earn the CIWS its other name: "Captain, It Won't Shoot")

The question is: Why has Israel not taken these old CIWS out of warehouses and set them up to save ALL lives of Israelis living in villages near the Gaza border???? I know of only one answer, which you will no doubt deny, (To justify the High Kill Rate policy) so for what must the at least the 25th time I ask: What other reason is there for letting these crude rockets kill a few people each year? (I ask, years ago Mr. Spock that question 17 times and then he finally falsely stated "It would not work." despite having been told that CIWS, mounted on flat bed trucks was shooting down mortar shells in Iraq. Those shells, being smaller and faster are harder to hit.

What is your answer as to why Israel does not use CIWS to protect the cities near Gaza 100% from lose of Israeli lives?

 

[Billy T]

Gun or rocket, they are still products of the military-industrial-complex, aren't they? Rockets can reach over terrain, but doesn't such a gun need line of sight to the target? Meaning you need more of them to cover the same amount of area.

Yes, to both questions.

I am not oppossed to everything done by the "military industrial complex", - only to the huge "boondoggles"* - Silly projects that will not even work, except to transfer billions from taxpayers to the a few corporate giants. An American example is the "Bradly Fighting Vehicle" (It was supposted to do everything but did nothing well. For example was to cross rivers, but in water it sank) OR,
The Osprey plane (large motors and props at tips of wings that could turn 90 degrees for vertical landings / take offs and when in forward position fly much faster than a helicopter) At least half of the first dozen made crashed, but with more money (several times over budget) they were able to fly without frequent crashes and I think a few are actually used now by the marines, but no more will ever be made.

BTW the CIWS would be between Siderot and the border will full line of sight to the Gaza rocket as soon as it cleared any trees or building near the launch site.

Don't misunderstand. The Iron Dome may be a good project and needed in the near future - but claiming it will defend against the Gaza rockets is silly, beyond dishonest! You don't shoot $100,000 rocket at a $10 rocket. You need to shoot a bunch of 10 cent bullets at it.

------------------
* My salary at APL was paid for about 1.5 years by one. I can't go into details, but it was, as most boondoggles are, a very clever idea as to how to secretly trail Soviet Subs. Only problem (why it was boondoggle) was it could easily be defeated by the Soviet Sub only speeding up and then coasting with reactor nearly shut down less than 5 km in 90 degree turn. US subs doing the trailing would need strange external modifications - Even an average college physic student could guess how the trailing system would work and immediately know how to defeat it. But it was a fun and educational project to work on for 1.5 years, and I really had no choice, except trying to find work elsewhere. APL usually gave me complete freedom to work on what I liked - Mainly medical programs with doctors at JHU hospital or one of several energy related projects I got funded (or others did). Occasionally, I did get called in on hard problems.

 

[hypewaders]

I forgive you BT

 

[CheskiChips]

I completely agree with you on this. Have said essentially the same; but Iron Dome missiles are too expensive, and perhaps not even technically able, to stop the short range, cheap, crude, unguided stove pipe rockets fired from Gaza at nearby Israeli villages like Sderot, etc.

For defeating them, the CIWS of even several generations back, long ago replaced on Israeli ships by more modern versions, which can fire even faster and still never jam, are more than adequate against these crude Gaza missiles. If they did not Jam, the first generation could kill even the weaving, supersonic, sea-skimming, French Exocet! They jammed only rarely and never would if the firing rate were only 10% of max rate - still more than adequate for the slow Gaza rockets. (In the early days, jamming did earn the CIWS its other name: "Captain, It Won't Shoot")

The question is: Why has Israel not taken these old CIWS out of warehouses and set them up to save ALL lives of Israelis living in villages near the Gaza border???? I know of only one answer, which you will no doubt deny, (To justify the High Kill Rate policy) so for what must the at least the 25th time I ask: What other reason is there for letting these crude rockets kill a few people each year? (I ask, years ago Mr. Spock that question 17 times and then he finally falsely stated "It would not work." despite having been told that CIWS, mounted on flat bed trucks was shooting down mortar shells in Iraq. Those shells, being smaller and faster are harder to hit.

What is your answer as to why Israel does not use CIWS to protect the cities near Gaza 100% from lose of Israeli lives?

I'm not expert on military weaponry nor am I an expert on policy decisions. I can give you an intelligible guess though...
CIWS likely fire a high quantity of rounds towards projectiles vertically...all of this must fall somewhere. Every year, people die on the 4th of July for the same reason. If you consider that both Israel including the Gaza strip are amongst the most densely populated areas in the world, it's probably been determined that incidental deaths would outweigh (in public effect or real world deaths) the intentional deaths inflicted by katusha and qasam rockets.

 

[hypewaders]

No death outweighs another the point is that there would be less dying with less jealous and obsessive fixations on the opponent's and one's own missiles. Just stop pretending these are the hallmarks of the hegemony of rational societies. Everybody knows it's a lie conceived in psychopathy.

 

[CheskiChips]

No death outweighs another the point is that there would be less dying with less jealous and obsessive fixations on the opponent's and one's own missiles. Just stop pretending these are the hallmarks of the hegemony of rational societies. Everybody knows it's a lie conceived in psychopathy.

What the hell is wrong with you? Did your mama drop you on your head? The bullets would likely fall in Gaza you putz.

 

[Billy T]

I'm not expert on military weaponry nor am I an expert on policy decisions. I can give you an intelligible guess though...
CIWS likely fire a high quantity of rounds towards projectiles vertically...all of this must fall somewhere. Every year, people die on the 4th of July for the same reason. If you consider that both Israel including the Gaza strip are amongst the most densely populated areas in the world, it's probably been determined that incidental deaths would outweigh (in public effect or real world deaths) the intentional deaths inflicted by katusha and qasam rockets.

Good guess, but there is an identical problem when an automatic fire gun is mounted on the ship. Thus, CIWS has adjustable "lockout zones" to keep it from shooting up the bridge, etc. of its own ship. Also the best place (takes least bullets, probably 50, fired at 10% of the normal rate, would do) is when the Gaza rocket is slowing moving at the peak of its parabolic trajectory - I.e. only half way to its target.

Actually if I were setting system up I would start to fire sooner. - begin immediately after rocket is inertial (burnt all its fuel) and still climbing. Then perhaps the CIWS bullets would fly over GAZA and fall in the sea. - I don't know their max range (fired at ~45 degrees up) and that is not why I would fire earlier - I would just like to kill it ASAP even if that costs a couple of dollars more in bullets as it is faster moving target then. That would be well worth it psychologically as then the launch crew would see their "baby" explode high in the air. That, combined with the counter battery artillery falling on them in less than a minute, might discourage future launches pretty quickly.

It is true the perhaps 49 of the 50 bullets would continue on and fall in Gaza, but those jerks spray many more than that up into the air just to celebrate a wedding etc.

 

[Billy T]

No artillery does not need line of sight. Todays artillery can hit very accurately and with good range. With a good system set up, Israel could launch counter-strikes of artillery withing seconds of a Qassam rocket. But of course that not going to stop the rocket, but Israel and the USA have been working for some time on a perfect system for that why they are sticking with iron dome despite how expensive and how useless it will be is beyond me, perhaps some military politics, who knows.

Electric is correct about artillery but CIWS does need line of sight to the target. Also "seconds" is not realistic - you need to more time to collected data on the trajectory and a few seconds to "back compute" the launch point from that data and swing your artillery gun's barrel into the correct position. Then there is the time of flight of your artillery shell - But in less than a minute you can be "pounding the hell" (as I put in back in 2005 post) out of the launch point area.

I have said long ago, but just to be clear now: I want to kill the Gaza launch crew. As I stated long ago - let's tear them to shreds with exploding artillery shells.

I have earned Hypewader's extension of my name (Billy Toughguy) with this a half a dozen other calls for military action, including B52s reducing the well isolated command city of million dollar plus homes of the military in Burma to rubble.

 

[iceaura]

So what are you saying that China for example will give up its ties to developing countries and take its hands out of creating power blocks in its own region? I doubt that very much even if the US took its hand out of the pot first.

You underestimate the nature of power

China is not shoving its hand into the pot by force. It's easy (so far) to not do business with China if you don't want to, and aren't Tibet.

 

[hypewaders]

You better you betta tibet roundeyes?