Zionist piracy

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There's no excuse for my responding to you... but...
Sure their is you hope to get the chance to troll me yet again
every country buys military equipment from military corporations. Even the US buys from European military manufacturers, China buys from Russian plants...Europe buys from US manufacturers...etc etc. Israel buys some from Lockheed Martin, McDonnell Douglas, and Boeing defense. Those aren't owned US government agencies...
and weather you want to admit it that's a form of aid.

Israel also has the IAI (Israel Aerospace Industries) which makes products which rival and surpass many American products in many respects.

spending US money. last time the Israelis tried to design a plane without the help of US funding it collapsed after the US government quit sending money. weather its money, hardware, or technology Israel is where it is solely because of military aid. from other countries.
 
Sure their is you hope to get the chance to troll me yet again and weather you want to admit it that's a form of aid.



spending US money. last time the Israelis tried to design a plane without the help of US funding it collapsed after the US government quit sending money. weather its money, hardware, or technology Israel is where it is solely because of military aid. from other countries.

So if I buy a peanut from my friend in Canada for 25 cents because I really need a peanut, that's aid from my friend? Weather or not it's raining?
 
I think Israel is more then just dependent on military aid rather Israel has become a major military exporter, they must make weapons and need wars and carnage to finance this economy, fuck turkey has and still is even after the flotilla raid, buying UAV from Israel.
 
I think Israel is more then just dependent on military aid rather Israel has become a major military exporter, they must make weapons and need wars and carnage to finance this economy, fuck turkey has and still is even after the flotilla raid, buying UAV from Israel.

which are about to be used AGAINST israil if they dont back down. I cant see any PM in the WORLD surviving saying that they would board the ships themselves, give them navel escorts and do whatever was nessary to break the blockaid and then do nothing. They would be crusifided by there own people and pollies arent stupid enough to make those kinds of mestakes.

edit: sorry little tipsy:p
 
For those of you interested in exploring and debating the legalities around this incident, here is the view from "Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights".

As can be gathered from this precis, there is more than reasonable ground for an independent investigation.
Points 1 to 3.
(1) Factual Outline

On 29 May 2010 the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, consisting of six civilian ships and 700 human rights activists and journalist from over 40 countries, set sail for the Gaza Strip carrying over 10,000 tonnes of aid and supplies1 for Gazan civilians. The purpose of the Flotilla was twofold: (1) to bring much needed supplies for the reconstruction of Gaza, a territory and population that remains largely in ruins after Israel bombing during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09 and (2) to protest – a non-violent and peaceful protest – against Israel’s illegal military blockade2 against the Gaza Strip,3 which has, amongst other things, prevented any rebuilding since the Israeli bombing and engendered a humanitarian crisis.

At 04:00 on Monday 31 May 2010, Israeli naval commandoes rappelled from helicopters onto a Gaza Freedom Flotilla ship (the Mavi Marmara) while it was travelling through international waters (approximately 90 miles or 150k/m from the coast of Gaza). The ship was flying a Turkish flag. During an operation designed to gain control of the ship, the Israeli commandos opened fire on the civilians, killing at least ten (at the time of writing - this estimate is not yet confirmed: the figure could be higher) and injuring many more.

(2) Questions and Answers

(i) Why did Israel prevent the Flotilla from reaching the Gaza Strip?

Israel has imposed, as part of its general blockade against Gaza, a blockade of the coastline around Gaza (20 nautical miles), preventing ships from entering, leaving and in many cases, operating within Gazan waters. Israel argues that it acted in order to prevent the Flotilla from breaching the blockade.

(ii) Does international law permit a coastal blockade?

Imposing a blockade over a coastline is not legal under international law save in specific circumstances involving armed conflict: war must be declared (imposing a unilateral blockade is, in and of itself, an act of war) or Israel must be acting as a belligerent occupier (something which it strongly denies). Israel has declared a unilateral blockade around Gaza, arguing that it is in a state of war with Hamas. However, it is generally agreed that certain items – such as food, water, and medical supplies for the sick and wounded – are to be permitted through the blockade and that banning these items is not permitted under international law. Furthermore, with the exception of a binding decision by the United Nations Security Council,4 it is unlawful for a State to enforce a blockade against ships flying the flag of another State in the high seas.

(iii) Was the interdiction of the ship in international waters permitted under international law?

Since the ship was sailing in the high seas, the underlying basic international law principle that applies is exclusive flag jurisdiction, which was identified as part of customary international law by the Permanent Court of International Justice in 1927:

“It is certainly true that – apart from certain special cases which are defined by international law – vessels on the high seas are subject to no authority except that of the State whose flag they fly”.5

The Court went to explain that,

“[F]ailing the existence of a permissive rule to the contrary, [a State] may not exercise its power in any form in the territory of another State. In this sense jurisdiction is certainly territorial; it cannot be exercised by a State outside its territory except by virtue of a permissive rule derived from international custom or from a convention... ...[V]essels on the high seas are subject to no authority except that of the State whose flag they fly. In virtue of the principle of the freedom of the seas, that is to say, the absence of any territorial sovereignty upon the high seas, no State may exercise any kind of jurisdiction over foreign vessels upon them. Thus, if a war vessel, happening to be at the spot where a collision occurs between a vessel flying its flag and a foreign vessel, were to send on board the latter an officer to make investigations or to take evidence, such an act would undoubtedly be contrary to international law. ...A corollary of the principle of the freedom of the seas is that a ship on the high seas is assimilated to the territory of the State of the flag of which it flies, for, just as in its own territory, that State exercises its authority upon it, and no other State may do so.”6

Since the ship was flying a Turkish flag it was only subject to Turkish jurisdiction.

International law does provide that warships may interfere with the passage on the high seas of ships flying the flag of another State in limited circumstances. Article 22(1) of the 1958 Geneva High Seas Convention (which sets out customary international law, and to which Israel is a party):

“Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters a foreign merchant ship on the high seas is not justified in boarding her unless there is a reasonable ground for suspecting:

a. that the ship is engaged in piracy; or
b. that the ship is engaged in the slave trade; or
c. that, though flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag, the ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship.”

This Article is repeated in Article 110(1) of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, to which Israel is not a party.

These exceptions were not relevant in this incident in that none of these grounds existed and there was no reasonable basis on which any of these grounds could be suspected.

In addition, the 1988 IMO Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation (to which Israel is a party) likely makes the actions of the Israeli navy unlawful. Article 3 provides:

1. Any person commits an offence if that person unlawfully and intentionally:

a. seizes or exercises control over a ship by force or threat thereof or any other form of intimidation; or
b. performs an act of violence against a person on board a ship if that act is likely to endanger the safe navigation of that ship;
...
g. injures or kills any person, in connection with the commission or attempted commission of any of the offences set forth in subparagraphs (a) to (f).

Article 13 further provides:

1. States Parties shall co-operate in the prevention of the offences set forth in Article 3, particularly by:

a. Taking all practicable measures to prevent preparations in their respective territories for the commission of those offences within or outside their territories;...
The original document and Points 4 to 6 here.

If anyone has an alternative version from an Israeli or other perspective, please supply link.
 
Umm..

Can anyone confirm this?

Iranian aid ships are due to set sail to Gaza by the end of the week, according to a report in the Sunday Times.



The Iranian Red Crescent decided to send the vessels, which will carry food, medications, and medical equipment, following a meeting with the foreign ministry,

“One ship will carry donations made by the people and the other will carry relief workers. The ships will be sent to Gaza by end of this week,” Iranian Red Crescent director Abdolrauf Adibzadeh told the IRNA news agency.



On Sunday, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said that Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.



"Iran's Revolutionary Guards naval forces are fully prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-two-iranian-ships-to-sail-to-gaza-1.294657
 
that is what they were reporting on ABC news radio bells, along with the turkish PM offering to go on turkish ships personally and having the turkish navy provide escorts and do "all things nessary" to insure that the aid ships get to gaza
 
Let's certainly hope that's not the case...Israel surely will not budge...and the Revolutionary Guard will certainly not budge. These 'aid' ships will not be boarded in the same method with paint-ball guns strapped to the backs of Israeli commandos. This is a severe provocation by Iran...and it doesn't bode well for any continued peace in the Middle East. If the ship doesn't turn back, there will be casualties...I pray dearly it ends at that. If war breaks out I will likely be on the first plane there....
 
This is a severe provocation by Iran...

The Iranian Red Crescent escorting aid ships is a "severe provocation" - what is parking nuclear missile subs in the Persian Gulf? Perhaps we will see what is more important to Israel, the blockade of Gaza or war with Iran.
 
The Iranian Red Crescent escorting aid ships is a "severe provocation" - what is parking nuclear missile subs in the Persian Gulf? Perhaps we will see what is more important to Israel, the blockade of Gaza or war with Iran.

No, the sending of their military alongside the boats. That is...if they won't dock in Ashdod.
 
Why would they dock in Ashdod? Thats like the Warsaw Poles sending food packets to the Nazis to pass on to Jews inside the ghetto.

The aim is to break the blockade not add to it.
 
You're so cute when you're ignorant.

Its common sense. You don't ask the person who is inflicting the atrocity to be the lawyer or the judge or even the arbitrator. He sits in the dock and awaits indictment for his crimes.
 
The aim is to break the blockade not add to it.

The aim should be to do so peacefully. Not have a flotilla of armed ships escorting the peaceful ships. The aim should be to avoid war, which will inflict further pain and hardship on the Palestinians. If this is treated as an act of war, it will be the Palestinians who will suffer the most from it.

The attention will be driven from the blockade itself and shift to the dick measurings between Israel and Iran.
 
The ships which carried the 1500 representatives of 42 countries were not permitted to pass peacefully, even the UN recognises that peacekeepers need a military escort when they are likely to be attacked.

How many ships will the Israelis attack? Within the next few weeks/months there will be ships from Turkey, Lebanon, Iran, more ships from American Jews, Europe. Israel will have to end the blockade - people are fed up of them. After the murder of the 9 activists what options remain to them? If they attack the military escort of Iran, they might as well declare war. If the Iranians are willing to go to war, what will the Turks do? What will Israel do?

Are Israelis willing to die to sustain the blockade of Gaza? Iran is not Hamas. They have missiles which can hit Tel Aviv

And there are 70 million Iranians vs 5 million Israelis. Will they start a nuclear war? All for a blockade?
 
The aim should be to do so peacefully. Not have a flotilla of armed ships escorting the peaceful ships. The aim should be to avoid war, which will inflict further pain and hardship on the Palestinians. If this is treated as an act of war, it will be the Palestinians who will suffer the most from it.

The attention will be driven from the blockade itself and shift to the dick measurings between Israel and Iran.

that depends on who else gets involved. Sure if its iran i can see the US backing israil but what if its turkey, irland, england ect. You think they will sit back then?

As i said turkey's PM has said that he is willing to be on the next turkish ship to go and that it will have a naval escort from turkey.
 
Its common sense. You don't ask the person who is inflicting the atrocity to be the lawyer or the judge or even the arbitrator. He sits in the dock and awaits indictment for his crimes.

What it must feel like to live in a world without consequence...without real feeling and without a concept of human guilt. You...you...live in a lonely world, barren...so your passion is misappropriated to those you only vicariously experience love through...Palestine. You have no necessity for facts, or demand for reality. One day when you're old and gray you may sit in one of two chairs; rocking creakily in contemplation of your failure to do anything of accomplishment having wasted your best bearing years to petty intellectual masturbation, or sitting upright recognizing your life as a journey filled with mistakes which have imbued you with a satisfying family of happiness.

The choice is really yours; but...unfortunately I think you've accidentally made it as your hole grows deeper and your heart cold.
 
What it must feel like to live in a world without consequence...without real feeling and without a concept of human guilt. You...you...live in a lonely world, barren...so your passion is misappropriated to those you only vicariously experience love through...Palestine. You have no necessity for facts, or demand for reality. One day when you're old and gray you may sit in one of two chairs; rocking creakily in contemplation of your failure to do anything of accomplishment having wasted your best bearing years to petty intellectual masturbation, or sitting upright recognizing your life as a journey filled with mistakes which have imbued you with a satisfying family of happiness.

The choice is really yours; but...unfortunately I think you've accidentally made it as your hole grows deeper and your heart cold.

Here is an example of what you defend:

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said "OK" and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-israel-and-abandoned-by-britain-1992518.html

Did you have relatives in the holocaust? They would be proud of you
 
The ships which carried the 1500 representatives of 42 countries were not permitted to pass peacefully, even the UN recognises that peacekeepers need a military escort when they are likely to be attacked.

How many ships will the Israelis attack? Within the next few weeks/months there will be ships from Turkey, Lebanon, Iran, more ships from American Jews, Europe. Israel will have to end the blockade - people are fed up of them. After the murder of the 9 activists what options remain to them? If they attack the military escort of Iran, they might as well declare war. If the Iranians are willing to go to war, what will the Turks do? What will Israel do?

Are Israelis willing to die to sustain the blockade of Gaza? Iran is not Hamas. They have missiles which can hit Tel Aviv

And there are 70 million Iranians vs 5 million Israelis. Will they start a nuclear war? All for a blockade?

You are forgetting one thing. Israel does not care. We're talking about a country that shot peace activists and journalists in the back of the head and in the back. We're talking about a country that had no qualms in running an unarmed student over with a tank. Do you really think they would not hesitate in this? And yes, they would be willing to die and would probably have no qualms in starting a nuclear war over a blockade. And they'll take everyone with them. The point is that if Iran does this, then it will play into Israel's hands. It will offer Israel the opening they have been wanting. And they'll have the US right behind them.

If there is a chance to break the blockade peacefully, or with minimal loss of life, that is the option that should be taken. Do you honestly think Israel would hesitate to fire on an Iranian armed naval ship nearing the Strip?

Iran is doing what we call political posturing, and it is risking the lives of others in doing it. And instead of the world putting pressure on Israel to lift the blockade, the world will now end up concentrating on a possible war in the ME, between Israel with the backing of the US and Iran. The ultimate losers will be the Palestinians... which will defeat the whole purpose of the peaceful fight to lift the blockade in the first place.
 
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