Zionist piracy

[spidergoat]

To some extent, that's what a democracy means.

 

[Norsefire]

To some extent, that's what a democracy means.

I'm so glad the US is not a democracy.

 

[pjdude1219]

I'm so glad the US is not a democracy.

we're a republic which is kinda of like a democracy

 

[Black Jack]

we're a republic which is kinda of like a democracy

There's nothing similar between the two. One is mob rule, the other is rule of law.

 

[pjdude1219]

There's nothing similar between the two. One is mob rule, the other is rule of law.

last time I checked ancient athens had laws. democracy has laws.

 

[StrawDog]

First hand accounts of what exactly occurred starting to trickle through.

Norman Paech, former member of the German parliament
This was not an act of self-defence [by the Israeli army], but rather it was completely disproportionate - although we were counting on our ship being blocked and maybe checked.

This was a very serious offence, this was a war crime.

I personally saw two and a half wooden sticks which were used [by activists].

We had not prepared in any way to fight. We didn't even consider it.

No violence, no resistance - because we knew very well that we would have absolutely no chance against soldiers like this.

Mohamed Vall, Al Jazeera reporter
The Israeli assault took those of us on the ship by complete surprise.

During that hour an half in the early morning everybody on board the ship thought that no-one would survive the Israeli attack because we saw about 30 war vessels surrounding this ship and helicopters attacking with very luminous bombs, the sound of them makes you think you are dead

That was a fear of war, complete war, on a ship that was full of men, women and even children.

The first soldiers on the ship were not killed, they were not shot at, they were captured by the defenders of the ship.

Moments later another bigger helicopter landed more troops and this time they fired immediately at people and killed as many as they could so that they could reach the cabin and take control of the ship.

I saw blood spilt on the ship and everyone knew that there was no weapons. we all knew the Israelis would intercept us and try to stop us, but we didn't think that they would open fire at the first moment.

I have been shown the picture of a Yemeni man, and this is ridiculous, who was on the ship and most people know that every Yemeni in the world has a Yemeni style knife, that is a cultural thing and does not have anything to do with violence.

I understand now that in Israel they are trying to make a big deal about that, saying that the boat was full of violent people and just because of that one man.

(more)

 

[S.A.M.]

Anywho.. back to the topic..



Who wants to bet that in doing the security checks, everything will be wiped clean?..

If they return it at all. I guess Israel needs journalist equipment as much as they need land it seems.



Here is an article by Peter Rodgers, who is the former Australian ambassador to Israel. He makes some very good points, not only about the attack on the flotilla, but also about the supposed peace process and how Israel is portraying itself in the International community, most importantly, how the International community treats Israel and whether that support will or should continue..

Israel's folly may be the catalyst the West needs by Peter Rodgers.

Can these Australians be dismissed as self destructive fanatics or martyrs?

Perhaps this incident will vindicate Palestinian suffering and demonisation.

\

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\4658972617_8413db8124.jpg

Handling APPx (0xe0) block.
Handling APPx (0xe2) block.
Handling APPx (0xed) block.
End of APPx data blocks reached.
Status = 0

Unable to extract some or all of the EXIF data, which may have been removed from the image file.​

none of the images have any iptc or exif data as far as i can tell

Is there any way to tell where the pictures were taken? Is there any way to scrub exif data?

The "weapons" cache I was referring to are the pictures here which source the pictures here

I'm surprised the pictures are still there.

edit: whoops! missed this

EXIF data has been changed, here are the original screenshots

http://emberapp.com/bangpound/

Date changed from February 7, 2006 to May 31, 2010.





Meanwhile custom officials in Greece have claimed that the ships were searched before departure and had no weapons

Officials from the Customs Directorate said all passengers that boarded the Mavi Marmara ship were screened and that not a single passenger was in possession of any weapon. “Forty-two passengers boarded in İstanbul and 504 passengers got on the ship here. They were screened. We spotted no weapons and there is no such record in our logs. We did not notice anything suspicious about the Mavi Marmara. Had our officers had any suspicions, they would have reported it,” an official, speaking under the condition of anonymity, said.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-211621-no-guns-aboard-gaza-humanitarian-aid-ships.html

 

[Bells]

Can these Australians be dismissed as self destructive fanatics or martyrs?

Perhaps this incident will vindicate Palestinian suffering and demonisation.

The paper who employs the journalists had contacted the Israeli Government and advised them that the two journalists would be on the ships and had advised that their position there was solely to report. One was tasered after she had identified herself as a photo jounalist. Her crime was to try to send the images of what was going on at the time.

Is there any way to tell where the pictures were taken? Is there any way to scrub exif data?

The "weapons" cache I was referring to are the pictures here which source the pictures here

I'm surprised the pictures are still there.

In the words of Mr Rodgers:

The Free Gaza Movement aims to be an irritant for Israel. It says its mission was humanitarian, massaging the truth in a way that would do Israeli spin doctors proud. The flotilla was driven as much by the politics of the conflict as anything more high-minded. But politics, of the free-for-all shouting style, is what Israel claims to do best. How many times have you read about embattled Israel holding high a shining light of democratic practice in a sea of Arab darkness?

Precisely what danger did the flotilla pose to Israel? What was in their cargo that demanded such action in international waters? It seems knives and metal poles now pose a clear and present danger to the Jewish state. A state, we might note, that receives extraordinary amounts of military succour from the US; is now among the world's leading arms exporters and is the only country in the Middle East to possess nuclear weapons.

The footage on board the Mavi Marmara of the pro-Palestinian activists' efforts to thwart the Israeli boarding is being cited as proof of evil intention. The Israeli Defence Force claimed activists even tried to "kidnap" a soldier. Who was kidnapping whom?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/israels-folly-may-be-the-catalyst-the-west-needs-20100602-wzv8.html

 

[S.A.M.]

In the words of Mr Rodgers:

Think of all those Hamas militants attacking the most moral army in the world [armed merely with tasers, stun grenades, tear gas and machine guns] with WMDs like marbles and slingshots

Haven't you read David and Goliath? They have a history of such violence.

 

[Bells]

Think of all those Hamas militants attacking the most moral army in the world [armed merely with tasers, stun grenades, tear gas and machine guns] with WMDs like marbles and slingshots

Haven't you read David and Goliath? They have a history of such violence.

My kids play with marbles

Note to self, if we ever travel to Israel, be sure children have zero of their toys on them or in their suitcases. Leggo make cannons that shoot pieces of lego across the room. Don't want them to be tasered for posing a threat to the state of Israel with those. Also, no marbles..

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Does the West force Myanmar to not abuse it's minorities? Does the West do anything effective about the killing in Congo. Even in Rwanda the West did not stop the violence.

Do you really believe the West would force Israel to do anything? Isn't it a bit naive to think that Arab terrorism is the reason the west does not do anything about Israel? Terrorism just helps the Western governments not have a public relations problem in the West while they do nothing about Israel.

Palestinians renouncing violence probably would be in there best interest because they aren't getting anywhere with violence anyway. Renouncing violence against oppressors goes against human nature but a battered wife does need to to know better than to hit back. This wife does not want to flee her ancestral home and nobody wants to let her live with them. The cops supports her batterer. These cops don't do anything for battered wives anyway unless the battered wive can bribe them with something.

If anything is going to be done about Israel individual people will have to do it. The flotilla is the sort of thing that needs to be done. Also boycotts will need to be done. Otherwise the next 40 years will be like the last 40 years.

Well as I have said before the West cannot 'force' any nation outside of using military force or sanctions. The UN and Western nations are in a bind when it comes to taking action. You sanction a country and then others will accuse them of starving the people, the UN had basically created a blockade against Iraq and to this day you all you hear of are dead babies. If you use military there's a chance they accuse you of killing civilians. This doesn't disable countries like the US but it does disable the UN, it leaves them unable to take action. People at the end of the day do not know what they want. Send troops into a country like Myanmar or Sudan for example or N.Korea and if they fight you then you are likely to be called the aggressor or an occupier. At this point I would venture to ask whether it is the responsibility of the West to always 'do something' as they say.

I agree with you on the Palestinian situation but its not 'the palestinian people' whom I think should renounce violence but Hamas.

Likewise I understand the importance of the flotilla.

 

[Black Jack]

Think of all those Hamas militants attacking the most moral army in the world [armed merely with tasers, stun grenades, tear gas and machine guns] with WMDs like marbles and slingshots

Haven't you read David and Goliath? They have a history of such violence.

I heard David and Goliath was a fairy tale. That's just a rumor of course...

Also, David cheated... the story you didn't read about was after the fight, he was arrested for first degree murder and his title was taken away after evidence of an illegal improvised weapon was found on his person.

 

[S.A.M.]

Thats King David to you, buster. :bugeye:

I bet the IDF started shivering in their shoes when they saw the marbles.

 

[Black Jack]

Thats King David to you, buster.

He's not my King! I didn't vote for him!

*EDIT*
One thing I never got was why the whole "40 nights/40 years" thing was so big in the bible... Goliath taunting the Israelites for 40 days (the IDF would never tolerate such a security risk), wandering through the desert for 40 years (they forgot their GPS in Egypt)... Noah's Arc... oh well, number repetition. People must have just liked that number!

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You missed my point. I was telling why your suggestion that the Palestinians should not resist does not work as is proven by what happened to the peaceful Bedouins who did exactly what you suggest and now have no land.

Well doesn't that depend on the goal? If the goal is land and separate homeland it probably will not work. If the goal is a one state solution it is absolutely fundamental, its fundamental because like the situation in Northern Ireland you have to show you can live with the other without threatening the other. As long as you have Hamas deflecting from the humanitarian situation by the use of standard military tactics against Israel the West and Israel can easily see the Palestinians as a 'fighting group' not a group that is being oppressed without cause. So I disagree with you, the Hamas are not behaving like 'peaceful bedouins' anymore than the IRA were sitting ducks. Hamas has not shown the good will that the IRA were willing to take in order to attain peace and broker for a larger political role and be taken seriously. As long as Hamas uses might against the Israeli's the Israelis can show cause for their actions.

 

[S.A.M.]

As long as Hamas uses might against the Israeli

Seriously? Hamas is so mighty?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Nonsense, this is getting a bit stale. Israel chose not to even talk to HAMAS from the get go. HAMAS extended their hand right after the elections.


Right, now we are getting somewhere. The cause (gosh we don`t have a nation, it was taken from under our feet, we are pretty pissed off) is obviously a consideration for a solution (gosh, gee, lets talk about creating a nation for you, and perhaps consider lifting the blockade) and then compromise (gosh, OK, we will recognize Israel and gosh, OK we will give us SOME of the land we stole back to you) - HONEST and SINCERE dialogue.

Thus this board and my interest in such. Feel free to vacate whenever you want and focus on what interests you.

Without accountability, and consequences, the cycle continues. Tell me you can understand that?

You are sounding rather silly. The Israeli regime is flaunting basic human rights with its blockade. The reason? HAMAS. Who suffers. All Gazans regardless of who they voted for. This collective punishment is a flagrant abuse of human rights. I have said a zillion times, compromise is required from both sides, and I have said a zillion times, the Palestinians need to unite, reject violence, accept the reality of Israel, talk sincerely, and accept compromise in order to gain statehood and a future for ALL Palestinians.

Why should Israel deal with Hamas when Hamas hasn't changed its charter?

'Hamas's 1988 charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state.'

They would have to change that stance if they are going to be in a position to talk with Israel or there would be nothing to talk about.

The Israeli's are doing nothing more than the UN did when they sanctioned Iraq and even toothpaste never mind medicine couldn't get into the country all to collectively punish those in the name of Saddam Hussein. I am not being silly Straw I am looking at it objectively. The siege is meant to cripple Hamas, have Hamas lose some of its popularity and also to stop Hamas from smuggling in arms. That was the aim. Its been used for maybe a thousand years as a means of tiring a people, its a military tactic. Israel is using military tactics because Hamas engages with them militarily. When you launch rockets you are behaving as a militia not a 'political movement' or a 'humanitarian movement'. See the difference?

You say the Palestinians need to unite. Well I ask you why did Hamas fight Fatah? Why? It was a great indication of what would happen if they did get their own state.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Seriously? Hamas is so mighty?

Might as in aggression Sam. When you successfully blow yourself up at someone's wedding party or a coffee shop or use car bombs its a pretty might sight.

Its a blast

 

[Bells]

I bet the IDF started shivering in their shoes when they saw the marbles.

Maybe the IDF saw that they only had "halfpint" size marbles and the activists had "boulders".

 

[Bells]

Why should Israel deal with Hamas when Hamas hasn't changed its charter?

The question can also be asked, why should Hamas deal with Israel, when Israel sees fit to place a blockade upon Gaza, to the extreme detriment of the Palestinian people who had democratically elected them to power. Democracy and free vote is only acceptable when the right person wins..