Zionist piracy

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that's not disgusting, thats just sad.

You cant prevent disgusting things this easily.

Sad is when you can't prevent it from happening because the government that should be protecting their citizens consistantly does the opposite.

The fact is in every single case Israel was provoked. The Gazans ceased firing during a period of 24 hours and the second that happened Israel swung the gates open and let medical supplies through, food through, electricity, water, all the heart's desires...

Hamas fired two rockets and Hamas closed the gates.
Friend Fed, I don`t need to take issue with you, I know your heart is in the right place. Its not about word choices, its about a better and lasting future for Jews and Palestinians. And it will take major effort and compromise from both sides.
Shalom.
 
Friend Fed, I don`t need to take issue with you, I know your heart is in the right place. Its not about word choices, its about a better and lasting future for Jews and Palestinians. And it will take major effort and compromise from both sides.
Shalom.

strawdog, its the immovable object and the irresistable force, it will be hard as hell.
 
strawdog, its the immovable object and the irresistable force, it will be hard as hell.
I understand that only too well. In (insert many years here) time, I would like my great grandchildren to be able to live in Israel, know their heritage, and walk tall. :m:
 
The OP is about Piracy. What loot the pirates get?
video tapes showing what really happened.

BTW, as I predicted, Israel is editing theirs. I.e. the flashes of the "flash bang" bombs (stun bombs?) are mostly gone now. You can still see some in CNN's re-run copies but mainly just an off field of view flash which fills half of screen view with reflected light. With a week or so of editing, the Israelis may be able to return the confiscated cameras and video tapes or disks. Reminds me of the old photos of USSR's leaders standing on Lenin's tomb - Leaders now out of favor disappeared in the school books showing 1 May day celebrations as the years passed. I predict there will not be a single muzzle flash when the tapes are given back, if they ever are.
 
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Then you likely would have been a rabid Jew-hater.

No. I would have been defending myself against aggressors who stormed the ship I was on. Unlike you, their religion means squat to me. Tell me, were the passengers who threw deck chairs on the Somalians who were trying to storm their ships 'rabid Somali haters'?

Don't be stupid. Of course not. But there's more than enough blame to go around to the protestors also - I note that the shiekh on board is kind of a Jew-hater himself.
Who was released quickly. Funny that, eh Geoff?

Was the holocaust survivor who was on board a Jew-hater?

Misdirection.
No.

I'm just tired of you. I find you so immoral and such a lying hypocrite that even typing this response to you brings a bad taste to my mouth.

It is plainly obvious that they intended to do so from the day before, when they had their little white hood rally. It is also plainly obvious that it was a set-up.
Now it's a white hood rally.

You mean they were preparing to defend themselves against possible attacks from the Israelis?

What should they have done when those soldiers stormed their ships and started shooting Geoff? Tell me, in Geoff's little world, what should they have done? What should anyone do if on a ship and it is stormed by armed men?

Do you know what piracy is Geoff?

You said the women joined in the attack. You are retracting this now? You can stop the lying, Bells.
Frankly, you are now grasping at straws. Look at the videos. Women were throwing deck chairs trying to defend themselves against men shooting at them.

Now, speaking of lying, where did I say that it was malnourished Palestinian children on those boats and all the rest of what you have claimed I have said?

Yes, there is. That you don't understand what that is doesn't make it false.
Here's the thing. Lets say this goes to court and I am prosecuting them. And I say 'it shows clear premeditation that they were going to attack their attackers (yes Geoff, when the Israelis stormed those ships, they attacked the people on those ships) because they were singing some songs the day before and had what the Israelis are saying were a couple of iron pipes, a couple of knives, some marbles and what the Israelis are showing from their films of sling shots (which we havent seen the passengers use those yet) and some deck chairs. I'd be laughed out of court. If they were planning this from the day before, because of course, they knew the Israelis were going to violently storm their ships and start shooting from the day before (in Geoff's world).. so it shows clear premeditation'.. I would have my criminal law and International Law professors coming at me with weapons for being so god damn stupid. It doesn't wash.

And here is why.

Clear premeditation would mean that they would know exactly what the Isaelis were going to do, and that was to storm the boats and rappelle down. Now, you have stated that they, the passengers, were planning this from the day before when they started singing anti-Jewish songs. Not only did they not know at that time that the Israelis were going to attack those boats, but if they had started planning this from that point on, they would have armed themselves a bit better to cause sufficient damage. So apparently, in your eyes, it is clear premeditation because they pulled those soldiers as they came down those ropes one by one and defended themselves.. Clear premeditation would entail their knowing exactly what the Israelis would do and acting accordingly. Those videos do not show that. What it shows is people swarming the decks as the helicopters and boats approached. That does not show premeditation.

Rather, of premeditated attack.
Refer to above.

That your argument is based off supposition far more tenuous than any I could offer.
You are saying that because they were singing anti-Jewish songs, then it was premeditated that they attacked the Israeli men who attacked their ships. And you are saying that my argument is based off supposition?

Okay.

And? Whom did they shoot as they rappelled down? Could you point this out to me?
They were shooting at the ships before they even boarded, Geoff. Keep up.

That is the very height of duplicity. Iron pipes (or "iron sticks" in your lexicon) are not weapons, and a mob is not a mob.
Refer to above, Geoff.

I see you are not familiar with the fallacy of popular opinion after all. And: "everyone"? Really, now.
Rub those little hands some more Geoff..

In an interview with the AFP news agency, he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.
 
video tapes showing what really happened.

BTW, as I predicted, Israel is editing theirs. I.e. the flashes of the "flash bang" bombs (stun bombs?) are mostly gone now. You can still see some in CNN's re-run copies but mainly just an off field of view flash which fills half of screen view with reflected light. With a week or so of editing, the Israelis may be able to return the confiscated cameras and video tapes or disks. Reminds me of the old photos of USSR's leaders standing on Lenin's tomb - Leaders now out of favor disappeared in the school books showing 1 May day celebrations as the years passed. I predict there will not be a single muzzle flash when the tapes are given back, if they ever are.

We are editing Al Jazeera and CNN videos? There are a lot of things we can do, but I doubt those on the list. I remind you that Al Jazeera were covering the story live from the boat during the entire time.

Or in other words, BS.
 
We are editing Al Jazeera and CNN videos? There are a lot of things we can do, but I doubt those on the list. I remind you that Al Jazeera were covering the story live from the boat during the entire time. Or in other words, BS.
Not the entire time -only scenes of the commando boats approaching. The cell phones were jammed even before the commandos boarded.

That is why the commandos killed the satellite dish transmissions so quickly. No one, not Al Jazeera or anyone else has more than the very first stages of the event. Mainly below deck scenes of the confusion and panic. The commados got there quickly and terminated those scenes too. Israel is good at information control. - Years of practice.

For example about half of the sewerage processing plants in Gaza do not have their own generators so when Israel cuts the power off the sewerage flows unprocessed into the sea if it can. Where it can not drain it goes into the street. There are many reports of this, but not one photo have I seen of sewerage covered street. I don't know but bet photographic film can not enter Gaza legally. Perhaps even cameras have been confiscated?

Your telling lies like "all the time" "the entire time" is obvious to all - we know what we could see on TV.
 
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Like the rest of the world, protesting against what is going on in Gaza.

A belief that is catching on:

Before we go to the rest of the world:

1. What is a holocaust survivor doing aboard a ship that is populated by "Peace activities" chanting anti Jewish songs?

2. Doesn't he need medical assistant during the voyage?

3. If I was in charge of such "dangerous" trip I wouldn't agree to have an old man aboard, holocaust survivor or not.

hence,
I conclude this was nothing more then a publicity stunt.
 
I said in my post yesterday that this was a carefully orchestrated publicity stunt, calculated to fail, for the purpose of amassing international enmity toward Israel. There has been no other way to resolve the plight of the Palestinians under the leadership of increasingly insane Israeli leaders, so this was their last hope.

This was not a "typical" relief shipment. The number of ships was huge, it was sponsored by the government of an important Middle Eastern nation (Turkey), and the tactics were obviously planned in advance to create martyrs for the cause, in order to make the maximum impact on public opinion.

After all, what kind of morons does a group of unarmed people have to be, to counterattack a well-armed military force? Especially the Israeli military force, which has proven time and again to be as ruthless as the Nazis? Overwhelm one and throw him overboard? Grab a couple of their weapons and start shooting??? This is a GUARANTEE that a bunch of you will end up DEAD. As I said yesterday, I am positive that everyone who signed up for this trip was interviewed by the leaders and warned that there would be bloodshed.

Martyrdom is not generally an effective way to promote a cause, but in this case it worked:
  • This is the number one news story all over the world.
  • People who were formerly sympathetic to Israel are now angry.
  • Turkey, a member of the U.N. security council, an important U.S. ally, one of the few Muslim nations that has diplomatic relations with Israel, and a voice of reason and moderation in the Islamic region, will surely sever its relations and become more supportive of Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.
  • Even voices within Israel are outraged. Several interviews with current and former officials have been printed that are highly critical of the way this crisis was handled. Words like "stupid" are being bandied about within Israel.
  • Americans are demonstrating. My countrymen--including many American Jews who were already pissed off at Israel--are picketing the White House, demanding that Obama send an angry response to Netanyahu instead of the wimpy piece of diplomatic crap he issued.
This could reshape world politics. Israel will find itself increasingly isolated. There will be tremendous pressure on the U.S. government from its citizens to cease its knee-jerk support of Israel's military ambitions.

All that's needed now is for Pakistan to get involved in this controversy; suddenly Israel would no longer be the only involved nation with nuclear weapons.

At some point the Israeli citizens will, hopefully, wake up and realize that they and their elected officials have been spinning the country into a death spiral which is now very close to reaching its end point.

As I have asserted on several other threads, grief makes people angry, selfish and irrational, and grieving people must therefore never be allowed to make policy. The modern State of Israel was founded in the grief over the Nazi Holocaust. It is a nation in a perpetual state of grief. All of its policies are enacted out of grief; its foundation is a litany of all of the worst instincts from the Stone Age: anger, hatred, revenge, tribalism, religion... It is a civilized country in name only, and only because the rest of us play along with the fantasy.

Perhaps the government will collapse over this and the citizens, led by the voices of outrage, will elect some more rational leaders who are motivated by more than grief and hatred.

If not, I can't imagine what's going to happen next. It will probably make my country's foolish adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan look like childish pranks in comparison. If there's a war against Israel and both Turkey and Pakistan participate, I doubt that the U.S. would actively participate.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt are tied too closely to U.S. interests to go to war against Israel. But that leaves a lot of other Muslim nations besides Turkey and Pakistan: Syria, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Albania, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan...

There are one billion Muslims in the world and today I'm sure every one of them supports the Palestinians.

As I said at the start, this was a very good publicity stunt, and it worked.
 
One 100 billion Muslims wont help the Palestinians. Gaza is ours and the west bank is ours, Israel is ours.

Mr. Spock,
Jerusalem :)
 
Before we go to the rest of the world:

1. What is a holocaust survivor doing aboard a ship that is populated by "Peace activities" chanting anti Jewish songs?

2. Doesn't he need medical assistant during the voyage?

3. If I was in charge of such "dangerous" trip I wouldn't agree to have an old man aboard, holocaust survivor or not.

hence,
I conclude this was nothing more then a publicity stunt.

Which is why I am a tad dubious about the whole anti-Jewish songs. Anti-Israel songs maybe? One could understand, especially in light of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza.

The holocaust survivor, like the rest of them, are peace activists. So tell me, who storms aid ships carrying peace activists? Who attacks people, even when they are not resisting?

Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the ship Free Mediterranean that carried mainly Greek and Swedish activists, said his ship was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building materials and medicine.

No one resisted on the Free Mediterranean, he said, but people on board were struck by the Israelis. "Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks," he said. The Israelis insist that they fought back after their soldiers were attacked by the ships' passengers with metal rods and pepper spray and point to video of the raid showing the soldiers being struck and one soldier being tossed over the side of a ship.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/International/egypt-breaks-israels-gaza-blockade/story?id=10795098&page=2

Why do you assume that ships carrying humanitarian aid, along with peace activists, would not have medical professionals on board? Why do you assume that the holocaust survivor needed medical help?

Now, the "voyage" only became dangerous when Israel opened fire and stormed the ships. Funny that, eh? I mean if Israel wanted to stop the ships, they could have blocked their way.. Disabled the boats as they had done in the past.. So tell me, why did Israel decide to take the most violent route? To show the protesters? Flaunt those IDF muscle? Went well, didn't it?
 
One 100 billion Muslims wont help the Palestinians. Gaza is ours and the west bank is ours, Israel is ours.

Mr. Spock,
Jerusalem :)

And there we have it..

That belief is the root of the problem. Well done. You've, ermm, helped your cause very well.
 
What a load of crap. How can you kill a satellite dish transmissions that quickly??? ...
Simple. Cut the cable to it, or if smaller, near camera - just smash it with rifle but. Easier and quicker than writing my post 453 that proves you were lying in your post 452 !

You and others like you who defend nay evil Israel's government does are no friend of the Jewish people. I am much more their friend of the Jews than you are. - I have long ago suggest that defending ALL Israeli citizens from the crude, un-guided Gaza rockets is technically feasible with CIWS, etc. - Just as Israeli ships are defended from even super-sonic cruise missiles, which are well guide by homing radar and IR sensor.

Israel's "high kill ratio" approach is doomed in the end and immoral. If Israel switched to a defensive policy, Israel would not need to let those rockets kill one or two Jews each year as justification for its collective punishment and other war crimes.

The day is coming when Ebola laced dust, etc. is dispersed from High Rise buildings in Israel by martyrs willing to die with Ebola, etc. For its survival, Israel must change its policy soon.

I'll try to find links to the very detailed defensive plans I suggested years ago, but that may take some time and it is now my bedtime in Brazil. - Look for the links tomorrow.
 
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Which is why I am a tad dubious about the whole anti-Jewish songs. Anti-Israel songs maybe? One could understand, especially in light of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza.

The holocaust survivor, like the rest of them, are peace activists. So tell me, who storms aid ships carrying peace activists? Who attacks people, even when they are not resisting?



Why do you assume that ships carrying humanitarian aid, along with peace activists, would not have medical professionals on board? Why do you assume that the holocaust survivor needed medical help?

Now, the "voyage" only became dangerous when Israel opened fire and stormed the ships. Funny that, eh? I mean if Israel wanted to stop the ships, they could have blocked their way.. Disabled the boats as they had done in the past.. So tell me, why did Israel decide to take the most violent route? To show the protesters? Flaunt those IDF muscle? Went well, didn't it?

Peace activists? :roflmao:

like raad salah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTWQee07ZY

and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIKgiwqNf_8&feature=player_embedded


The IHH, a Turkish charity that was one of the main planners of the Gaza flotilla, is widely considered a terrorist organization by a number of bodies - including the Israeli government - and has been accused of maintaining ties with a number of terror organizations.

In 2006, a report issued by the Danish Institute for International Studies stated that during the 1990s the IHH maintained links with al-Qaida and a number of "global jihad networks." The report also said that the Turkish government launched an investigation into the IHH starting December 1997 after receiving intelligence that the IHH had bought automatic weapons from Islamist terrorists.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=177167

More on this organization can be found here:

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e105.htm
 
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