Zero Tolerance Teasing Policies

goofyfish

goofyfish

Analog By Birth, Digital By Design
Valued Senior Member
I skimmed through the book Give a Boy a Gun and in the conclusion it lists ways to stop school violence. While I did not read the entire work thoroughly, one of its suggestions is for schools to have zero tolerance teasing policies. This seemed ridiculous to me because children are beasts and don't appear to develop empathy until well into their teen years.

I've known a lot of kids, both from my own childhood years and children of my friends and relatives, and roughly 90% of them inspire mad visions of going back in time to their birth and stuffing them into a sack, to be subsequently dropped from the nearest bridge spanning deep water. The problem is, it's not their fault that they're snotty little brats...the areas of their brains that control judgment and empathy aren't very well-developed until late childhood.

I don't condone teasing, or the more intensive variant of harassment, but zero tolerance in any situation is trash and doesn't help. What exactly would "zero tolerance" entail when it is applied toward teasing and/or bullying? My guess is virtually any insult would end up being defined as teasing. Virtually any attempt at humor as well.

Your thoughts?

Peace.
 
You're in the USA, yes? Wouldn't a ban on teasing go directly against that whole constitutional freedom of speech thing?
 
*Snickers*

What is this 'Constitution' that you refer to? We must protect the children! It is for the children!!!!

*Cthulhu sweeps a tentacle in to drag a few of the mangy brats away to R'yleh for a snack*

No, freedom of speech is more or less nonexistant in schools. Dress codes, for instance, violate the protection of speech but many schools have them.

And zero tolerence is indeed trash. It leads to such travestys as expulsion for having bread knives.....

Showing less tolerence for teasing would probably help though.
 
Small kids can be little monsters when it comes to other kids (I recall a particular little mutant I know who had a distinct speech impediment, but enjoyed making fun of 'retawds'.:rolleyes: )

Some problems with the concept of zero tolerance for teasing:
  1. People are all different. What constitutes 'teasing' to one person is perfectly acceptable to another. Especially with kids. I joke w/kids all the time. My son was very used to some one pretending not to see the county fair coming up on the side of the road etc. A niece of mine was not used to teasing of any kind, even the 'I can't see you' kind.
  2. Some things are meant as fun, others are not (reference to above comment about humor).
  3. It will be impossible for them to totally eradicate all teasing (the authorities are not in every place), which means either you're going to get into a 'he said' 'she said' situation on a minute by minute basis (which doesn't leave a whole lot of time for education), or you'll ignore some egregious behavior.
Part of what the school needs to be able to do is to help students learn to maneuver through the adult world. Joking and teasing are part of it. A woman I know (who has autism) does not understand the concept of a joke, which is a detriment to her in the work place, as she takes absolutely everything everyone says literally.

On the other hand, I think it's inappropriate for a teacher/authority figure to ignore the absolutely cruel things kids say to each other when it's happening. And, I also think that a certain amount of 'teaching' and 'investigation' should go on. When you have a student who is/will be the obvious object of scorn, it's better thing to do to educate all about accepting differences, and how to be kind to others.

Peace.
 
while a world of no discrimination and or no teasing sounds wonderful, the world isn't close to it. Even the more mature adult's have some that still do it at different levels.
 
Schools Don't Play Cops and Robbers

Another fun-filled example of “zero-tolerance" hysteria:
Public school officials nationwide are banning children from playing "cops and robbers," citing zero-tolerance policies for anything resembling violence at school. (Full text here)
Click to expand...
:sigh:

What fun filled game do the schools think they are going to create to fill the void of cops and robbers? Administration should know, and continue to accept that the game is one that has been played through for generations.
"If you just look at intent in these cases, none of these kids would be guilty of anything." Attorneys with the ACLU agree.
Click to expand...
Peace
 
Goofyfish

Have YOU ever been bullied?

Im just asking because you don't seem to be able to empathys with the victoms.

EVERYTHING that can be done SHOULD be done to wipe that sort of behavior out.

I know what im talking about i was the victom of it

one boy in grade 6 terifyed me so much that although i lived 2 doors from the school i had to walk the long way arounf the school and hide in a bush while the kid walked down my street

It was some of what has made me such a timid person in situations that i am unfamilar with.

This has afected my ability to get a girlfriend, Job interviews and a lot of other things
 
Originally posted by Asguard
you don't seem to be able to empathys with the victoms.
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I'm not sure how you arrive at this conclusion as I specifically stated that "I don't condone teasing, or the more intensive variant of harassment." My point is that zero-tolerance policies have historically not resolved the issues they have been aimed at, and quite frequently become ridiculous in their application.

The complaint that I have with zero tolerance isn't that "something's being done". The complaint is that something's being done that allows for absolutely no gray areas, and punishes some students unjustly.

Students who are suspended for leaving their hunting knife in their car and forgetting it's there are victims of zero tolerance for weapons. Students who haven't had much exposure to other races, cultures or religions who ask a Jewish student an innocent question about something they've heard their parents say about Jews and are suspended are victims of zero tolerance for harassment.

It's an excuse for school administrations to not have to think about what an individual student has done, or to listen to what really happened. It's sloppy reasoning and scattershot discipline. It's a substitute for what educators should be doing to combat racism, sexism, homophobia, harassment and physical threats: educating.

Peace.
 
Sorry goofyfish I shouldn't have said that but I am REALLY sick of older people saying that bulling and abuse "builds character". All it did for me was destroy my life completely.
 
Originally posted by Asguard
Sorry goofyfish I shouldn't have said that but I am REALLY sick of older people saying that bulling and abuse "builds character". All it did for me was destroy my life completely.
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I agree. Life was hell for me through the 6th and 7th grade. Later, I was more popular after I moved. It wasn't fun having someone following me down the school hall yelling inappropriate words. Zero tolerence might help, but I really have no strong feelings towards it. It has its good sides, and its bad sides.

The answer: Judo classes, and less restrictive rules on fighting in school. ;)
 
Originally posted by The-Hybrid
The answer: Judo classes, and less restrictive rules on fighting in school.
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So you would promote additional aggression to resolve the problem? Could you elaborate?

Peace.
 
Curious ...

I've been around long enough to have seen what I consider to be an
inverse relation between youth violence and the suppression of juvenile
male violence. What's happened to 'boys will be boys' and the acceptance
of an occassional bloody nose or skinned knuckle?

Without the possibility of establishing social status at a relatively young
age, like between six and eight, are we not encouraging older, like early
teen, more violent ways of establishing status or the 'righting of wrongs'?

Just idle thoughts (maybe very idle).

Take care :(
 
Why allow any behavior that encourages the development of "social status"? We are thinking, reasoning (occasionally) beings. Why not get rid of it all together?

...and please try to answer without refering to me as a dreamer. :D

Peace.
 
Really, I'm not sure I like the idea of dumping social status. I should have more rights than murderers and rapists.
 
Originally posted by goofyfish
So you would promote additional aggression to resolve the problem? Could you elaborate?
Click to expand...
Yes. To an extent (no guns, knives, etc).

Originally poster by Chagur
What's happened to 'boys will be boys' and the acceptance
of an occassional bloody nose or skinned knuckle?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be nice if it were that simple? The only thing that kept me from beating on some people was the fact that I'd get kicked out of school.
 
Thank you everyone. You have just proved what a loving and caring group of people this world is. I am REALLY sick of the atitude that says it good for you or it s unaviodable. Did NO_ONE read my post. How was it good for me? It might very well have been one of the facters that lead to my suicide atempt. I gess no-one in tis sociaty cares though
 
Asguard, I don't think anyone is claiming that teasing is beneficial.

I know it isn't. It made me extremly shy for a few years, before I realized what was wrong and fixed it.

Now, I took Hybrid's approach, and fought back. The schools are nasty enough to boys who get into fights - little girls are treated horridly. I was suspended, let's see, three times for fights that I didn't even start.

But I don't think that allowing kids to fight back is enough. I don't believe in 'zero tolerance', but I don't see a problem with getting medieval with the little brats. Punish the perpetrators, says I.
 
Xev

gess you were lucky if you could get over it. It STILL effects me and i haven't been at school for 2 years (and it stoped about year 10). I am shy of pushing my self forward in new situations STILL. Tempary_illsion is my first girlfriend EVER (im 19 and shes my first girlfriend). I STILL have trobble in job interviews. My selfestem is NOTHING. I was suicidle untill only a few months ago.

I not talking short term effects here but VERY long term ones

Oh and alowing me to fight back wouldn't have helpped unless they were going to TEACH me how to fight first
 
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