Zeitgiest Movie Claims.. Are they true ?

[Enmos]

i already did in #70.

Oh, I see. You answered post 71 in post 70.. :crazy:

Answer these:

John: "because it isnt normal human behavior to worship an object as a stand alone God."
Me: And it IS normal behavior to worship some invisible entity you have no experience of whatsoever ?

John: "throughout history all Gods have been close to human form at ther very least they were living, breathing, thinking beings."
Me: Ever heard of Idolatry ? Or animal worship ?

John: "NO there was always another deity behind the Sun and NOT the Sun itself. comprende'?"
Me: Evidence ?

 

[Enmos]

the whole point of the movie is that the same story has been told over and over again over time, and in a lot of different ways, and in the lives of many.

Because of unsubstantiated assumptions.

and i see the moronicism (did i just make that word up?) on both sides. the atheists see the movie and say, "ah ha! christianity is a bunch of bunk!" and the religious christians say, "it's not true! it's not true!", because you know, they do own god and christ.

I don't understand, why would it be more bunk if it came from sun worship ?

i long for a time when i'm not surrounded by people who are so completely immersed in some egomaniacal agenda, that they would be able to yank their heads out of their asses long enough to have a logical thought.

No comment

 

[John99]

it isnt accurate, throughout history all Gods have been close to human form at ther very least they were living, breathing, thinking beings.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentient

key word is aware. just study sun worship and you see thtat there was another entity connected with it and that entity was the one they were worshipping. the sun was an extension.

i dont advocate a belief system, i think that is what you are looking for. i am being subjective and viewing this through a sociological\anthropolgical lens.

 

[Enmos]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentient

key word is aware. just study sun worship and you see thtat there was another entity connected with it and that entity was the one they were worshipping. the sun was an extension.

i dont advocate a belief system, i think that is what you are looking for. i am being subjective and viewing this through a sociological\anthropolgical lens.

What does that definition have to do with anything ?
Will you just answer my questions already!?

 

[John99]

forgive my typographical error, post 83 should read: anthropological.

 

[Lori_7]

Because of unsubstantiated assumptions.


I don't understand, why would it be more bunk if it came from sun worship ?


No comment

what i'm saying is that the fact that this same story or premise has been told over and over again to many people throughout history in many different ways lends to substantiation that quite possibly the story or premise is NOT bunk, no matter which way you come to understand it.

 

[Enmos]

forgive my typographical error, post 83 should read: anthropological.

Support your goddamn claims!

 

[Enmos]

what i'm saying is that the fact that this same story or premise has been told over and over again to many people throughout history in many different ways lends to substantiation that quite possibly the story or premise is NOT bunk, no matter which way you come to understand it.

How, for the love of God, do you figure that ?
If I make up a story right here and now and it is told and retold for a few thousand years, causing the eventual story to be quite different from the original one, why would that mean that either one, or any intermediate ones, would not be bunk ?
And I'm not apologizing for that unsightly sentence either ! There, take that !

 

[(Q)]

what i'm saying is that the fact that this same story or premise has been told over and over again to many people throughout history in many different ways lends to substantiation that quite possibly the story or premise is NOT bunk, no matter which way you come to understand it.

Just like Aesop's Fables and Grimms Fairy Tales?

 

[Pipes75]

I like Zeitgeist for opening eyes, but they do reach at times .

Peter Jacobs didn't research the material himself, he just presented information others have claimed to researched.

Alot of Zeitgeist offers alternative perceptions of what may have occured, but the actual physical evidence doesn't really offer any proof other than more and more perceptions!

I prefer Zeitgeist 2: Addendum,
which sticks to factual info against money systems and gets into resource based societies for a possible future.

 

[Lori_7]

How, for the love of God, do you figure that ?
If I make up a story right here and now and it is told and retold for a few thousand years, causing the eventual story to be quite different from the original one, why would that mean that either one, or any intermediate ones, would not be bunk ?
And I'm not apologizing for that unsightly sentence either ! There, take that !

There was quite a variation in the source and/or basis for the same stories.

 

[Enmos]

There was quite a variation in the source and/or basis for the same stories.

Evidence ?

On a side note, I thought you weren't religious ?

 

[Lori_7]

Evidence ?

On a side note, I thought you weren't religious ?

if i remember the movie correctly, it's even written in the stars.

 

[phlogistician]

what i'm saying is that the fact that this same story or premise has been told over and over again to many people throughout history in many different ways lends to substantiation that quite possibly the story or premise is NOT bunk, no matter which way you come to understand it.

So if people shout long enough, and hard enough, it becomes the truth Lori?

Or is it simply, that there are only so many good stories. Good triumphing over evil, lost loves reunited, that sort or crap.

 

[Hapsburg]

Or is it simply, that there are only so many good stories. Good triumphing over evil, lost loves reunited, that sort or crap.

Well, tropes are not bad. They are tools, and communication wouldn't happen without them.

 

[Lori_7]

So if people shout long enough, and hard enough, it becomes the truth Lori?

Or is it simply, that there are only so many good stories. Good triumphing over evil, lost loves reunited, that sort or crap.

You don't have to see meaning in anything phlog. I guess that's the beauty of it.

 

[EndLightEnd]

So if people shout long enough, and hard enough, it becomes the truth...?

Actually most of the time that is exactly what happens. If you have a louder voice (ie media) you have more influence over what is perceived as "truth". The church is well versed in this technique.

The next step is when the truth is then held to be self-evident, and then the people still on the fence will be swayed by peer pressure to appear "normal".

Classic stuff really. Our society by design stifles creativity with self-imposed "cliques" which limits the way people can and do think. And people wonder why we dont get true geniuses of the past such as Shakespeare or any of the great classical composers.

All it takes is a little critical thinking to see past the facade.

 

[swarm]

Like any good conspiracy theory there is a smattering of truth in the movies. But it is cherry picked and then massaged and given a make over so that by the time you get to their "conclusion" you can't recognize it any more.

 

[John99]

So then the Zeitgeist movie is duping us into thinking we are dupes?

I knew that from the first line of the movie.

 

[scott3x]

Actually most of the time that is exactly what happens. If you have a louder voice (ie media) you have more influence over what is perceived as "truth". The church is well versed in this technique.

The next step is when the truth is then held to be self-evident, and then the people still on the fence will be swayed by peer pressure to appear "normal".

Classic stuff really. Our society by design stifles creativity with self-imposed "cliques" which limits the way people can and do think.

With you so far...

And people wonder why we dont get true geniuses of the past such as Shakespeare or any of the great classical composers.

I think it's more that most popular music is no longer classical in nature. I personally really enjoy some music from Erik Satie and Debussy, or Holst's "The Planets", but I know that they all died at the beginning of the 20th century. I suppose the most recent classical composer I really like, who also had a strong jazz influence, would be Gershwin, but even he didn't make it to World War II.

All it takes is a little critical thinking to see past the facade.

I think that that would be unfair to those who don't see the deceptions that Zeitgeist attempts to illuminate. I think that the issues involved are fairly complex; I also think that some people may see atleast parts of the truths that film sees, which is still something.

Anyway, if you're looking for a place that has a fair amount of people who are leary of the mass media's claims, you might want to check out places like AboveTopSecret.com or Unexplained Mysteries, both of which have fairly active forums (I spend a fair amount of time in abovetopsecret these days ;-)).