The twin towers characteristics: how they were like controlled demolitions and unlike destruction by fires, Round 3
This post is in response to the 1st part of shaman_'s
post 542 in this thread.
scott3x said:
shaman_ said:
scott3x said:
shaman_ said:
scott3x said:
How convenient of you to ignore the 15 characteristics that the twin tower collapses share with conventional controlled demolitions and the 4 characteristics that differentiate it destruction of buildings by fire. If you ever choose to analyze them, however, they'll be waiting for you here.
When I said, ‘But even ignoring the many, many mistakes’ I was trying to make a point. Something lost on you. However as to your pathetic characteristics, I have discussed most of them with you at some stage. No doubt you will pretend that I haven’t as you use immature and dishonest tactics.
On my site, not only do I acknowledge that you have attempted to counter my points...
So stop saying that I have ignored them.
I mean in recent posts. Look, if you've already countered my points on my site, why can't you simply link to your counters?
This is a stupid childish game that you play. Are you going to tell me that I have never discussed thermite, witness testimony of bombs, ejection of materials during the collapse, squibs, pulverised concrete, symmetrical collapse, molten metal ect ect ect.. These are points we have been over many times and now you are challenging me to link to each one. Are you really trying to imply that you don’t remember discussing these things?
No, just that I wanted it all on the record for my site. Since then, however, I've gotten a bit laissez faire with the site. So much going on here, I have a hard enough time responding. In theory, putting the important points in the site could make it so that we don't rehash stuff ofcourse...
scott3x said:
I'm trying to distill the most important arguments for the controlled demolition hypothesis, as well as bring up issues that still need to be worked on.
You’re probably going to filter out any debunking and claim victory! Are you going to include the comments from this document?
Up until now in this post, we've only been arguing about what we've been talking about- not really talking about the WTC collapses at all
.
http://www.cool-places.0catch.com/911/OpenLetterToRichardGage.pdf
Along with my various counters to many of his arguments, I was definitely thinking I'd add that stuff in. One day anyway ;-p.
scott3x said:
As Headspin mentioned in post 222, it was a "steel framed multi storey floating casino that was washed inland by hurricane katrina". And if it were already extremely damaged, why the need for explosives at all?
What a stupid question. To finish it off. That thing is a barge and it looks like four stories.
Man you have a penchant for the insults. The question is by no means 'stupid'. If fires were so dangerous to steel framed buildings, we could just pour on some gas and presto, a nice and neat demolition style collapse.
scott3x said:
They were both multi story buildings, atleast, unlike the Mccormick place warehouse, which had no 'core' per se and thus the roof cave in made much more sense; scientifically speaking, it's too bad it didn't have multiple stories as I think it would have resoundingly shown that the rest of the stories wouldn't have pancaked down at near free fall speed without the type of help that the casino had. This whole 'pancake collapse' theory has only been used once in all of history- on 911.
.. so once again you are implying that something happening for the first time is suspicious. Irrefutable evidence…
767s haven’t crashed into many high rise buildings either.
It's been acknowledged that the damage from the planes wasn't such a big deal even by NIST. Furthmore, the damage was localized to a few floors. In order to propagate the idea that the collapse wasn't done by explosives, however, they had to come up with something; the physical simulations just weren't working out when it came to fires doing it, so they tweaked out their computer simulation and left things at 'poised for collapse'.
scott3x said:
It's just a matter of setting the charges up a little differently.
That’s not the point. Your argument is that it must be a controlled demolition because it looks like one. When I say it doesn’t quite look like, you retreat to well its possible.
It doesn't quite look like a conventional demolition. However, when you compare it to a fire based collapse, such as the Windsor Tower, it's clear that it looks much -more- like a conventional demolition then it looked like a fire based collapse like the Windsor tower. The main issue is that high rise fire based collapses don't happen in a matter of seconds. They take time. And I'm not saying that they just need an hour or 2 and then they'll fall demolition style. They fall piecemeal. Compare the WTC building collapses that took less then 20 seconds per building and the hours it took for the piecemeal partial collapse of the Windsor tower:
Estimated time frame of collapses
Time Collapse Situation
1:29 East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:02 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:11 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 South middle section of about 17th ~ 20th floors collapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor
4:17 Debris on the Upper Technical Floor fell down
At some point (not soon) you are going to have to think about the logic of a master super conspiracy of smashing planes into buildings and then demolishing in such an obvious manner.
In such an obvious manner? You still seem to believe that the planes alone did it. Doesn't look like it's so obvious to me.
If they really could get absurd amounts of bombs and thermite into the building they are capable of making it more convincing than that.
The amounts aren't as big as NIST would have us believe, especially considering the fact that nano-thermite is an actual explosive, unlike regular thermite.
Why would they need to demolish the damn building anyway? It is absurd.
To collect more insurance money, to have the necessary deaths in order to get into 2 more wars that some had been planning for a while, perhaps even to boost Israel's position. You ever consider -why- those loudspeakers were telling people to return to their desks when they could have fled the buildings to safety? Or why the doors to the roofs were locked, or why helicopters were told not to attempt a rescue from the roof?