WTC Building 7 on 9/11

The information is provable by science and engineering, on site forensics, so because it comes from as source that you claim is Government does that make it less valid, the sources that you post didn't have access to the site, and to the recovered materials, the people from most of the sites you post never were on ground zero, and they have no actual real world contact with the site. You can make a model do any think you want by changing the variables or not having the all the information, and guessing, and making a WAG, WILD ASS GUESS, and that is what all of your conspiracy theories are WAG.
I can also produce a lot of witness testimony that supports the official story. Witness testimony can be unreliable though. I would rather work with photo and video evidence where possible.

This is interesting, I have a Uncle who served on the boats in WWII, and he tells stories of surface attacks on Japanese convoys, and the fact that when the torpedo hit you would hear 2 bangs, one transmitted through the water to the hull of the boat, the second when the sound waves traveling through the air finally arrived at the boat, he claimed that there was up to a 5 second difference between the two.
Sound travels though the air at 344m/s and steel at 5100 m/s.
 
I can also produce a lot of witness testimony that supports the official story. Witness testimony can be unreliable though. I would rather work with photo and video evidence where possible..


But you are leaving out the physical evidence, and no photo, or video can make up for the physical Facts and Items, that can be examined and tested as hard evidence, and the video evidence and pictures show the causation of the chain of events starting with the impact of Aircraft at all three sites.

Photos and Videos are used to back up the physical evidence, photos in and of them selves can't prove much with out physical evidence to back them up, and the Government has the Physical Evidence, and the Video, and the Photographic evidence, which none of the conspiracy nut have, all three legs of the chain of evidence, and only the government has all three.
 
the speed of sound through air is not a constant.
I checked more than one source and that was the approximate speed of sound through the air for 20 degrees C. The point is that it's much slower than the speed it travels through steel.
 
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the Government has the Physical Evidence

ummmm....

the government has an incomplete list of physical evidence (largely untested at that, for thermate and other residual compounds. being explained as unnecessary) that was quickly shipped out of country.

also this "physical evidence" could really be anything since no outside source was allowed to fully examine it.

you could argue that it was done for "national safety" and secrecy, but really...
 
But you are leaving out the physical evidence, and no photo, or video can make up for the physical Facts and Items, that can be examined and tested as hard evidence, and the video evidence and pictures show the causation of the chain of events starting with the impact of Aircraft at all three sites.

Photos and Videos are used to back up the physical evidence, photos in and of them selves can't prove much with out physical evidence to back them up, and the Government has the Physical Evidence, and the Video, and the Photographic evidence, which none of the conspiracy nut have, all three legs of the chain of evidence, and only the government has all three.
It doesn't matter. We have enough photo and video evidence to get a good understanding of what happened.
 
ummmm....

the government has an incomplete list of physical evidence (largely untested at that, for thermate and other residual compounds. being explained as unnecessary) that was quickly shipped out of country.
It took months to remove all the steel and it was examined.

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/international-law-foreign-investment-finance/906599-1.html

It was then recycled and went to various places. Some in the US and some overseas.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Jan/25776.htm
http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/ussnewyork.asp

What should they have done with 360 000 tons of steel?

also this "physical evidence" could really be anything since no outside source was allowed to fully examine it.
Who would be an 'outside source'? Experts from another country? The problem here is that any sufficiently qualified organisation is "linked to the government" and therefore can't be trusted.
:rolleyes:
 
It doesn't matter. We have enough photo and video evidence to get a good understanding of what happened.


As I was pointing out the photos, and the videos, and the physical evidence, it is all together in the Government's 9/11 Commission Report, and what do the conspiracy nuts have Photos? Videos? educated guess's because they don't have the physical evidence, oh one other thing the Government has the data from the Black Box Flight Recorders.
 
wow you people know less and less as time goes on.

Who would be an 'outside source'? Experts from another country? The problem here is that any sufficiently qualified organisation is "linked to the government" and therefore can't be trusted.

I have almost no words, except that you're a moron and the sooner you stop talking in this thread the better it is for everybody. There are many, many NGOs within the united states... the fact that you don't even recognize that is pretty sad.

Anyone with a PhD in physics/chemistry/mechanical engineering could be a credible source, and yes... experts from another country. Why not?

From your articles, shaman;

federal laboratory in Boulder will examine sections of steel from the ruined World Trade Center

New York authorities' decision to ship the twin towers' scrap to recyclers has raised the anger of victims' families and some engineers who believe the massive girders should be further examined to help determine how the towers collapsed.

But New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg insisted there are better ways to study the tragedy of September 11.

"If you want to take a look at the construction methods and the design, that's in this day and age what computers do," said Bloomberg, a former engineering major. "Just looking at a piece of metal generally doesn't tell you anything."

thank you, we've already talked about government sources on this and a "federal lab" doesn't really give much new info. and the fact that mayor bloomberg made an opinion on the issue because he's an engineer.... he's an electrical engineer. which means his ideas are worth nothing on the opinion.


okay... what's your point? 24 tons out of 300,000... are you trying to change my mind about the ridiculous amounts of the steel being recycled and untested?

As I was pointing out the photos, and the videos, and the physical evidence, it is all together in the Government's 9/11 Commission Report, and what do the conspiracy nuts have Photos? Videos? educated guess's because they don't have the physical evidence

holy christ! the very fact that close to nobody has actually seen this physical evidence is part of the problem.

and what physical evidence are you talking about buffalo? large amounts of steel were recycled without 2nd and 3rd party examinations.

and buffalo... please post some resources on those black boxes. because the only sites i've found say only 2 have been found, the public was not allowed to hear them, AND sections have been deleted by the FAA director.

furthermore there's a story about 2 firefighters having found several wtc blackboxes and then being silenced by the fbi. wtc firefighters are the least likely conspiracy theorists... are you saying they falsified the story? they're looking for some extra glamour after 9/11?

buffalo? anything?
 
I checked more than one source and that was the approximate speed of sound through the air for 20 degrees C. The point is that it's much slower than the speed it travels through steel.
well see, you included an extra qualifier this time, the temperature. sound does indeed travel at a constant speed at a given temperature and pressure.
but you are correct, sound travels much slower through air.
 
wow you people know less and less as time goes on.

I have almost no words, except that you're a moron and the sooner you stop talking in this thread the better it is for everybody.
I'm sure would prefer that I stopped posting in this thread...

There are many, many NGOs within the united states...

Anyone with a PhD in physics/chemistry/mechanical engineering could be a credible source
You mean like the people from the National Institute of Standards and Technology?

and yes... experts from another country. Why not?
Oh come on. The country had just suffered the worst terrorist attack in their history. The US wanted to use their own people and the most qualified people. This is hardly suspicious. Perhaps they would get other countries to fight their wars for them as well?

From your articles, shaman;
thank you, we've already talked about government sources on this and a "federal lab" doesn't really give much new info. and the fact that mayor bloomberg made an opinion on the issue because he's an engineer.... he's an electrical engineer. which means his ideas are worth nothing on the opinion.
He didn't do the investigation - NIST did, and they found nothing suspicious. You just refuse to believe it. Perhaps you could provide evidence that shows there was a conspiracy. Do you only have childish insults and personal incredulity?

okay... what's your point? 24 tons out of 300,000... are you trying to change my mind about the ridiculous amounts of the steel being recycled and untested?
I was merely providing a link that supports my point. I know that links are very important to you.
 
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Perhaps you could provide evidence that shows there was a conspiracy.

yeah the fact that 2 steel buildings collapsed on one day due to fire and structural damage. the conspiracy arises from their perfect fall.

the fact that one building fell almost entirely due to fire, with an unknown amount of physical damage. once again a perfect fall.

the fact that on the day of 9/11, all of NORAD was under a practice mission that had planes smashing into the twin towers... causing much confusion when it actually did happen.

by the way I made the comment regarding you posting in this thread not because you're threatening any conspiracy theories, you're just annoying to talk to. like, how is NIST an NGO? it is run by the US dept. of commerce... it seems like you do not even know what an ngo is.
 
the fact that on the day of 9/11, all of NORAD was under a practice mission that had planes smashing into the twin towers... causing much confusion when it actually did happen.

Don't forget almost the exact same thing happened on 7/7 in London.

- N
 
yeah the fact that 2 steel buildings collapsed on one day due to fire and structural damage. .the conspiracy arises from their perfect fall..

the fact that one building fell almost entirely due to fire, with an unknown amount of physical damage. once again a perfect fall.
Why do you say that these falls were "perfect"? Is there some other way a building should collapse once it loses sufficient structural integrity?

It's not like planes crashing into skyscrapers is a common occurence and we should be very experienced with what should happen.

the fact that on the day of 9/11, all of NORAD was under a practice mission that had planes smashing into the twin towers... causing much confusion when it actually did happen.
There were practice missions that day which is not unusual at all. There wasn't a simulation that had planes crashing into the twin towers. Your souce for this claim please?

Maybe you are referring to exercise Operation Vigilant Guardian which some claim was simulating hijacked planes.

Do you think that these points are compelling evidence for a major conspiracy?

by the way I made the comment regarding you posting in this thread not because you're threatening any conspiracy theories, you're just annoying to talk to.
If you look back over the last few pages I think I have refuted just about everything you have brought up. If you don't agree with that there you are welcome to respond to those points. Or you could just say "I can't talk to so many people at once" and stop responding...

I have been quite patient with you Hurricane Angel. You have made sarcastic comments like -

"you know, if you actually spend some time to find pictures of wtc 7..." when it is clear that there are some very important photos that you haven't seen.

"another thing you did not know is that thermite (the bombs to melt metal) do not explode in the presence of heat. " when it is clear that you know very little about thermite.

"But you're not really posting many resources. The problem I see is that we are posting many links and such," when I have posted a lot more links than you have.

I have also ignored your insults. So don't complain to me that I am annoying to talk to.

like, how is NIST an NGO? it is run by the US dept. of commerce... it seems like you do not even know what an ngo is.
No, I never said NIST was an NGO.

My inital comment regarding an organisation being suspicious was a sarcastic comment (see the rolling eyes) regarding conspiracy theorists not trusting anyone. For example, many NGOs rely on governments for funding so they would also be considered suspicious by conspiract theorists. See my point? If you are able to create some (probably fake) link between Popular Mechanics and George W then you could probably create links to anyone. It would be hard to find anyone supposedly "independent". It was facetious comment but you wanted to go one about it...
 
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wow madanthonywayne... 4,000 posts later and you're still an idiot.

Shaman what's the point of debating anything when you're always on the defence, you fall back to the "well that's the accepted theory (the usual 9/11 explanation)" so there's no need for you to prove anything. Can you prove to me those buildings collapsed due to fire, can you prove to me those hijackers are now dead and not alive, can you prove there was no insider trading regarding foreknowledge of 9/11?
 
Shaman what's the point of debating anything when you're always on the defence, you fall back to the "well that's the accepted theory (the usual 9/11 explanation)" so there's no need for you to prove anything.
You are welcome to respond to any points that you don't agree with. You haven't been doing that. You are just complaining that I am refuting your posts.

Can you prove to me those buildings collapsed due to fire,
You have already been shown that steel buildings can collapse due to fire. These buildings had a lot more than fire causing them damage.

Can you provide any evidence for a controlled demolition at all?

can you prove to me those hijackers are now dead and not alive,
They're alive? Where are they? Evidence? Why would US government risk the conspiracy and try to pin it on guys that are still alive? That is stupid.

can you prove there was no insider trading regarding foreknowledge of 9/11?
There were some spikes leading up to 9/11 but nothing out of the ordinary.
http://www.911myths.com/html/volume_spikes.html

"If a United Airlines spike of 8,072 in March didn’t suggest an imminent attack, then why should 3,150 puts in September have any more effect?"
 
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