Would you teach your kid to fight a bully?

[quietstormy]

Hell no. Why would I fight a bully, unless he's going to fight me?


Why would I fight a bully, unless I absolutely had to?


IMO, you only fight a bully when you are the bully?


Maybe if you aren't a bully and a bully is picking on you, it's because you need to learn to fight him?

 

[shorty_37]

Well I have a story to share today.

There is this kid in my son's (8yr old) class who won't stop bugging him at recess.
My son has told him time and time again to stop following him and getting in his face.
I know this kid and he just doesn't listen. He is quite a bit bigger then my son almost double the size. My son has been having problems with him for the past 3 or 4 months now.
I talked to his teacher and nothing has changed. About a month ago this kid pushed my son on the stairs of the portables and he fell on the ground and this kid fell on top of him hurting his back. They BOTH got in trouble and lost a recess for that incident. I even spoke to the kids mom and explained that her son will not stop following my son around and bugging him.

Today I picked him up from school and he told me he got a detention. He had to stay in the office on the bench for recess. I asked him why?
He said this kid jumped on him and he fell on the ground. My son turned around and punched him in the nose (his wild haymaker lol)
The kids nose started bleeding and then he vomited. They both got hauled into the office and lost recess but nobody called me from the school, even though the principle told him he was going to call me.


What do I think about what my son did? Well I think maybe this kid will finally lay off him and get the message. I am behind what he did, after the contant bugging he has endured for months. He tried to use words and this kid wouldn't listen, maybe now he will.

My son told the principle he was just defending himself when he got knocked down. The principle said hitting isn't defending yourself.....BLOCKING is...:bugeye:
What kind of stupid answer is that? The kid is twice his size and just doesn't get the message to stay away from him.

 

[spidergoat]

Shorty, your son did the right thing, in spite of what the principle said. It's not about learning to fight exactly, it's about attitude. One should not be aggressive, but one shouldn't tolerate disrespect. If they ever get sent to prison, they will learn that pretty quick.

 

[shorty_37]

Shorty, your son did the right thing, in spite of what the principle said. It's not about learning to fight exactly, it's about attitude. One should not be aggressive, but one shouldn't tolerate disrespect. If they ever get sent to prison, they will learn that pretty quick.

Spider, I am behind what he did. He has NEVER gone after anybody and started anything. He is well liked at school has a lot of friends. I think this kid got what he deserved. We always told both boys NEVER bully anybody, and don't throw the first punch. If someone attacks you though, defend yourself.

I hope the principle does give me a call tomorrow, because he will hear and earful from me.

 

[mikenostic]

Spider, I am behind what he did. He has NEVER gone after anybody and started anything. He is well liked at school has a lot of friends. I think this kid got what he deserved. We always told both boys NEVER bully anybody, and don't throw the first punch. If someone attacks you though, defend yourself.

I'd be more than behind it. I'd take him out for ice cream or something. He'd get cheers and applause from me when he got home. Haha.

I hope the principle does give me a call tomorrow, because he will hear and earful from me.

You MUST tell us what gets said in that conversation if it transpires.

I'd even go so far to go to the school, walk into the principal's office and insert my foot into his ass. LOL

 

[madanthonywayne]

well in australia i would take it to the school and then either the police and or the education department. Of course here issues of bullying have been concidered VERY serious and it IS common law assult in the majority of cases

Personally, when someone picked on me at school, I fought back. j still remember this bully who used to pick on me all the time. One day I was sitting on the bus and he punched me as he walked by for no reason whatsoever and then sat down right behind me. So I turned around and punched him right in the nose. I'll never forget the look of shock on his face as that punch connected. I pretty much won that fight, and we fought one more time and he won that one. After that, he never fucked with me again.

I've taught my kids the same thing. If someone fucks with you, punch him in the nose as hard as you can. If that doesn't work, go for the nuts, and then hit 'em in the head. Never start a fight, but don't run from one either. It's far better to get your ass kicked once and earn some respect than to be picked on for your entire school career. Bullies don't want to pick on someone who'll fight back. They want an easy target.

 

[Challenger78]

I would teach him to fight after the first punch is thrown by them. As long as he is sure of that, then I would believe him, unless of course, evidence states otherwise.

Amazingly,for me, all bullying stopped at the senior level. After reading this, I have never been more grateful to be in an academically selective school. The worst thing that happened to me recently, was my bag got turned inside out. It made great sarcasm material, when I was able to go " Oh noes, what will I do, Where will I go to fix my bag?..", etc.
Some boys are just looking for a reaction, to after the fact. If it's serious, they'll continue even after you show apathy, ignorance.

There are always assholes, but they're academic assholes.

 

[shorty_37]

I'd be more than behind it. I'd take him out for ice cream or something. He'd get cheers and applause from me when he got home. Haha.


You MUST tell us what gets said in that conversation if it transpires.

I'd even go so far to go to the school, walk into the principal's office and insert my foot into his ass. LOL

Well the principle called about an hour ago and we had a discussion. He tried to tell me a bunch of bullshit about how their school's policy is based on
ACCEPTANCE. The conversation was long.....so I will try and break it down to the point.

First off he asked me if I was aware of what happened at school today. I said yes I am, my son told me about it as soon as I picked him up from school.
I mentioned the other kid's name and he said he couldn't REVEAL the identity of the other child, I would have to ask my son who it was. I LAUGHED and said that's fine I know exactly who the kid is.

I let him tell me what his take on the situation was......This is what he said.

Apparently a girl said that this kid said the F-word and other kids starting saying that this kid said it and were laughing. The kid went ape shit that the kids were laughing and decided to jump my son and push him down. Then my son got up and threw a couple punches that missed him until the third one hit him in the nose. The kid fell on the ground and started crying with a bleeding nose and then vomited. Then the person on recess duty came over and they both went to the office.

This is the same story my son told me.

I then said well to be honest with you, I think my son finally had just about enough with this kid pushing him around that he finally just fought back. In the past he has told the person on duty or tried to tell his teacher like you have been telling the kids and nothing has happened. They pretty much just ignore it, till the next time. I told him that I even spoke to my son's teacher about the last incident that happened when he pushed him off the steps. I said that I think the best thing is that they just stay away from eachother at recess, which my son has no problem doing because he just doesn't like him. This kid has just latched onto him though and won't stay out of his way.
I said this kid is almost double his size and that my son is the one who usually ends up getting hurt.

He said that my solution of getting them to stay away from eachother is not such a good idea because they want to enforce ACCEPTANCE of eachother at the school. They don't support fighting at all and that he told my son that defending yourself is blocking. (BS) I kinda laughed and said but sometimes kids just do not and will not get along and trying to force that isn't going to work. I said I don't know how a kid of my son's size can block a much bigger kid from jumping him to the ground. :bugeye:

He then said well they have to learn how to get along with others when they are adults without resorting to fighting. I said first of all my son has been going to this school for 4 yrs now and he has NEVER once started a fight and has tons of friends here, he is not a trouble maker. I said listen as an adult if I don't like someone I will stay away from them. He said but sometimes it is a boss or someone and you have to learn how to get along with them.

I laughed and said but your boss doesn't jump you or physically push you around. He said you are right........I said so what is your point this kid is physically pushing my kid to the ground. Also why did he pick to push him down when there were many other kids around and he didn't even start this rumor about him. I can tell you why? He has said to my son a few times,
You aren't stronger then me because you are so small. So he is doing it because he is smaller then him.

I didn't say this part: (Well my son sure showed him today didn't he, small but a wild haymaker punch) Nietzche has been teaching him too well..

I said to the principle SOOOOOOOOOO my son has never been in trouble for using any bad language...and NEVER started any fights at this school, it isn't in his nature. He agreed that he doesn't think it is in my son's nature. This kid also has issues with other kids who can't stand him either. So I think it is pretty easy to see who is causing the problem here.
This other kid started this yr and there are all kinds of problems surrounding him from this situation to using bad language at school.

The answer for the bad language you are going to love this MIKE.

Well sometimes when kids come from other backgrounds ( this kid is Indian)
they don't really know what the bad words are. This is the same kid that said while playing "Let's kill these BITCHES" and also called a kid a NIGGER and guess who had to talk to him about it...his teacher who is a black woman. LOL I know this because my son is unfortunately in the same class as this kid.

I said this has been an ongoing problem and my kid has told the teacher and nothing has been done and he is still getting jumped by this kid...what do you really expect? I don't blame him for what he did, he shouldn't just have to take it, he defended himself plain and simple.

He said he wasn't aware this was an ongoing problem. I said well I spoke to his teacher and this isn't new, news. Then he brought up the ACCEPTANCE Bullshit again.

It basically ended with me saying that my solution to this is to speak to the other parents and tell them to tell their kid to stay away from mine at recess.

He said we was going to call them next and try to find a solution to this, and he will get back to me.

I asked how injured the kid was and he said that his nose was swollen and his nose was bleeding profusely...then he vomited. Oh well if he was smart he will stay away from my son now.

Stay tuned for part 2 when he calls me back again.

 

[shorty_37]

I've taught my kids the same thing. If someone fucks with you, punch him in the nose as hard as you can. If that doesn't work, go for the nuts, and then hit 'em in the head. Never start a fight, but don't run from one either. It's far better to get your ass kicked once and earn some respect than to be picked on for your entire school career. Bullies don't want to pick on someone who'll fight back. They want an easy target.

I think he punched him in the nose pretty hard today...lol

As for the rest of what you said, we have basically given the same advice.

 

[copernicus66]

Well I have a story to share today.
He said this kid jumped on him and he fell on the ground. My son turned around and punched him in the nose (his wild haymaker lol)
The kids nose started bleeding and then he vomited. They both got hauled into the office and lost recess but nobody called me from the school, even though the principle told him he was going to call me.


What do I think about what my son did?

Hell yeah! :yay:

 

[CutsieMarie89]

I've taught my kids the same thing. If someone fucks with you, punch him in the nose as hard as you can. If that doesn't work, go for the nuts, and then hit 'em in the head. Never start a fight, but don't run from one either. It's far better to get your ass kicked once and earn some respect than to be picked on for your entire school career. Bullies don't want to pick on someone who'll fight back. They want an easy target.

I disagree, I think the better advice isto choose your battles. No matter how mad someone makes you I think it's okay to run from fights that will guarantee you a week long hospital stay. I may not run away from the guy at a party whose bugging me, but if one of my boyfriend's dumb friends wanted to get in a fist fight with me, I'd play to my strengths and run in the opposite direction, knowing that probably aren't fast enough to catch me. There's a difference between sticking up for yourself and suicide. There are always other methods for getting back at people.

 

[Bells]

When my son had just turned two and had just started going to daycare twice a week, a bigger and older child bit him so hard on the arm that it drew blood. The staff noticed him just standing there and crying and when they saw blood through his t-shirt and when they asked him about it, he pointed to the child who had bitten him, who readily admitted to having done it.

He had apparently also been picking on our son quite a bit because our son, was new (we found this out during the biting incident). So we were immediately called and my husband, in his anger about what had happened, told our son as we were walking down to the car that if the child ever did it again, he should slap him. And sure enough, the next week, we were advised that our son had slapped the bully across the face so hard that it reduced the child to tears when said bully tried to take his water bottle away and tried to bite him (again) when our son refused to let go. The bully never came near our son again. I am not overly impressed that my husband said it to our son, I am surprised our son remembered what his father said, but frankly, after seeing the bite mark on his arm by that other child, I think a slap to the face when he tried to do it again is really not that bad. The staff said our son had not provoked it and was only protecting himself, but they would prefer if next time, he told his teacher straight away instead of using violence.

 

[shorty_37]

The staff said our son had not provoked it and was only protecting himself, but they would prefer if next time, he told his teacher straight away instead of using violence.

My son has never provoked a fight with anyone and just got fed up today. He is such a kidder and joker not a fighter, it's not his nature. I was actually quite surprised he actually did punch this kid. The thing is they would prefer them to do nothing and just tell a teacher, but in my son's case he has been trying to tell the teacher for months already. I even spoke to her at the parent teacher meeting about it. It has just been brushed off and nothing has been done. So really, what do they expect when the kid finally fights back and defends himself.

 

[justwonderingjoe]

Stay tuned for part 2 when he calls me back again.[/QUOTE]

My experience is when something like this happens, the principal wont call back. I'm not sure how effective your son's school is run, but... well. good luck.

When my daughter was in middle school, a boy said to her "stop looking at me or I'll kill you." I went a bit berserk when she told me... I went to the principal, threatened to press charges etc, etc..I never heard back from the principal, but the kid was shortly transferred to a different school.

The principal at your son's school may have heard other incidents about this boy, who has a short fuse, but it's true, he "cant'" tell you for privacy reasons.

From now on, I would inform the principal anytime that boy starts trouble with your son.

 

[mikenostic]

Well the principle called about an hour ago and we had a discussion. He tried to tell me a bunch of bullshit about how their school's policy is based on
ACCEPTANCE. The conversation was long.....so I will try and break it down to the point.

...

Stay tuned for part 2 when he calls me back again.

You should go talk to an attorney, then you and that attorney go talk to the school superintendent (i.e. the principal's boss) and tell him that there will be a lawsuit if your son receives any further 'correction' by the principal. Or if nothing else, find a way for you and the lawyer to somehow 'convince' the super to light a fire under the principal to get his head out of his ass.

Sounds like the principal is part of the problem and not the solution so it looks like here is where you go over his head.

You've handled this much more tactfully than I would have.

 

[shorty_37]

You should go talk to an attorney, then you and that attorney go talk to the school superintendent (i.e. the principal's boss) and tell him that there will be a lawsuit if your son receives any further 'correction' by the principal. Or if nothing else, find a way for you and the lawyer to somehow 'convince' the super to light a fire under the principal to get his head out of his ass.

Sounds like the principal is part of the problem and not the solution so it looks like here is where you go over his head.

You've handled this much more tactfully than I would have.

Well I told him what I thought about what happened and made it clear to him that I support what my son did today.

I didn't want to go off yelling liking a lunatic or name calling or anything because then he would probably chalk up the incident to being my fault for bad parenting or something.

I am sure this will all blow over and maybe this kid won't be a problem anymore if he is smart. If his parents have half a brain in their head they are telling him to STAY AWAY from my son from now on.

I told my son that IF he does anything again not to fight back next time and to go straight to the principal. Then I will walk in there and ask him what he is going to do now, because he reported it right away without fighting back and I WANT RESULTS not just talk out of his mouth.

 

[CutsieMarie89]

Well I told him what I thought about what happened and made it clear to him that I support what my son did today.

I didn't want to go off yelling liking a lunatic or name calling or anything because then he would probably chalk up the incident to being my fault for bad parenting or something.

I am sure this will all blow over and maybe this kid won't be a problem anymore if he is smart. If his parents have half a brain in their head they are telling him to STAY AWAY from my son from now on.

I told my son that IF he does anything again not to fight back next time and to go straight to the principal. Then I will walk in there and ask him what he is going to do now, because he reported it right away without fighting back and I WANT RESULTS not just talk out of his mouth.

I don't know about your son's school but all of the schools around here, have a zero tolerance policy. It doesn't matter who hit who first. If you hit someone you're in trouble no matter what position you had in the fight. So the big thing is don't hit anyone, if they hit you tell. That way they get in trouble and you don't. It's not always fair, but I guess it's the school's method for avoiding "he said, she said" and there's no reliable way to tell who started what. And I guess people have different definitions of self defense. If you're poking me and I punch you in the face to get you to stop, that might be a bit extreme and not exactly self defense as much I hit you for being annoying.

 

[shorty_37]

Well he has told and nothing has been done so far. The principal also didn't soley go on what my son and this other kid told him either. He also had a few witnesses he questioned which all verified my son's story about being jumped to the ground first.

Maybe if the school had taken my son more seriously when he did tell them many times before that this kid was bothering him, or pushing him this wouldn't have happened. The thing is as parents we aren't always there. When he is at school I expect the school to take action when complaints are being made by the kids. I would also expect them to call me and make me aware if my own kids are misbehaving or causing trouble. I can honestly say that it is not in my son's nature to do what he did today, so I know he was at his breaking point. Until today he has been following our advice of ..............

Don't ever start a fight.
If someone pushes you stand up for yourself, tell the teacher or person on duty.
(which he has been doing with no action being taken)
Then as a last resort we have told him that if someone pushes you down or hurts you, defend yourself and that is what he did.

If he had instigated this whole thing, even this kid who is a pain in the ass, I would not have been so supportive of what he did.
If any of my boys bullied or started a fight and hurt someone for no good reason, we would be having a serious about it.

 

[codanblad]

Bottom line codan...I'm the type that doesn't like to be picked on...leave me alone. If you pick on me even after I ask you to stop, I will find some way to ruin your shit...that goes for mother, father, brother, sister, uncle. Being a relative doesn't absolve you from getting a complete work over if you continue to pick on me. What's so hard to understand about that, codanblad? Please tell me?

i understand, you like to use extreme force. i do agree that it will work against some people, i just think its bad advice for a school kid, and isn't a great policy.

hypothetical: you kick the shit out of someone for teasing you, their mates come and put you in hospital. thats fun. the amount of force you use might determine the kind of retaliation you incur.

i don't have anything new to say really, why don't you respond to some of the other points in the posts i directed at you.

 

[nietzschefan]

I didn't say this part: (Well my son sure showed him today didn't he, small but a wild haymaker punch) Nietzche has been teaching him too well..

Actually I was surprised one of his haymakers actually connected. The kid is a all offense and no defense when he fights. Well who knows maybe haymakers is the way to go in elementary school. We are lucky the other kid is a big klutz, I think.

Whatever I've taught him, I've always said "Never start anything, but always finish it." I hope this kid now leaves him alone. From the puking after a getting hurt I suspect it's the first time ever this other kid experienced real pain, so that's possible it ends now. A real blockbuster punch like that with all kinds of kids blabbing about it hopefully gives him some berth with other would-be bullies, while he is at that school.

Like I told your son, go to school and don't brag, don't laugh (even if other kids do) don't instigate anything further. It is not worth making a permanent enemy of any sort. It also might invite some other "Tough" to take a run at him.

I am proud of him, he can hold his head high and have confidence and less fear. Hopefully this is his last fight ever, but I doubt it. I was a smaller kid too. It was non-stop fights until high school. I think that just cowtowing to bullies makes you meek as an adult and leads to just a pathetic life, regardless people will treat you as weak, you will project that.