Would you stand in jesus's place?

[NMSquirrel]

I thank God i will be made good again. Not some mindless soulless zombie who does not care about anything.

didn't say we would be mindless zombies..its more of a; we will have our attention where it needs to be,not on superfluous stuff..

And i do not believe i will be spending any time in Heaven. I will have eternal life here on earth.

as it is??
oh..new earth..

i can't get my head around being resurrected on earth..been here..done this...

I know i have eternal life. But i could never be sure about anyone else.

you are hoping not to die?
or being resurrected?

 

[Adstar]

didn't say we would be mindless zombies..its more of a; we will have our attention where it needs to be,not on superfluous stuff..

Anything that falls short of perfection is not superfluous stuff. It's an important issue that has to be dealt with. Jesus has dealt with it for me.

as it is??
oh..new earth..

Yeah a New Earth. There is a reason why God will be making a new earth.

i can't get my head around being resurrected on earth..been here..done this...

You have not been to a perfected Earth and you have not lived life as a perfect creation on it. So you have not been there and done that.

you are hoping not to die?
or being resurrected?

The statement was in reply to the scenario you put forward. Namely if someone else attempted to give their life so that i could live a longer life what would i do. My reply was that if i had the ability i would prevent them from giving their live for me. I know i am saved therefore i know when i die all will be well for me. But i would not know that about the person who was attempting to give their life for me. So i would attempt to stop them from giving their life for me. Not because i wanted to die and be with God (although i do want that) but out of concern for the other person, not knowing if they are assured eternal life with God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Anti-Flag]

Really that all presumes that "dying for the sins of others" actually works, as opposed to dying for nothing.
Why would you die for someone you don't know? You could end up saving the next Hitler.
Damn, 4 pages, wish I'd got here sooner.

 

[SnakeLord]

ppl would want more..

Would want more what?

 

[NMSquirrel]

Anything that falls short of perfection is not superfluous stuff. It's an important issue that has to be dealt with. Jesus has dealt with it for me.

we would not care/realize what perfection is when in heaven..

you have not lived life as a perfect creation on it.

like anyone can??who sets the standard?
god says we are perfect just as we are...
what is the standard for perfection?

SnakeLord
Would want more what?

no matter how many miracles god can bring forth for ppl, they would still ask for more..

 

[NMSquirrel]

Really that all presumes that "dying for the sins of others" actually works, as opposed to dying for nothing.
Why would you die for someone you don't know? You could end up saving the next Hitler.
Damn, 4 pages, wish I'd got here sooner.

for the sake of the OP..its just the average joe..

but for your question..opposite applies also..you could save the next Brittany spears..err...einstein..

 

[Adstar]

we would not care/realize what perfection is when in heaven..

Irrelevant. The issue is important Now.

like anyone can??who sets the standard?

God does of cource.

god says we are perfect just as we are...

No. He makes it clear we are not perfect.

what is the standard for perfection?

The very same one who sets the standard. God


All Praise The Ancient Of Days



no matter how many miracles god can bring forth for ppl, they would still ask for more..

 

[Red Devil]

NMSquirrel: Did Jesus die on the cross? I do not think so. He was drugged, to give the appearance of death, the soldier stuck a spear in him to 'check' and then allowed his body to be removed before he could actually 'die'. The wound, was not fatal, it was a mere 'prick' and of course it drew no reaction as Jesus was out cold. Crucifixions were always left on the cross, so why was he quickly removed? It was a con. A train of thought is that JC was smuggled out of the middle east and lived and died in an area near or in Tibet. I do not know, so cannot comment but believe its entirely possible.

JC was a member of the sect Sons of God and as such was an enemy of the occupying forces, it makes sense that he would be removed from the theatre of influence to avoid recognition.

As for miracles, mentioned above - anything unexplained is a 'miracle'? It need not mean exactly that.

 

[SnakeLord]

no matter how many miracles god can bring forth for ppl, they would still ask for more..

1. I've never been a theist or christian so I am unsure how to address this. Is this how theists are? Are they always asking their god for more?

2. Worth wondering if such god forces such state of affairs. It seems that should a theist attempt to go off on his own, to put god aside for a while, he is acting in an evil, dark manner - hence he seems to always be stuck in a position where such outcome is unavoidable.

It seems not many theists would say "god, please don't interfere, I want to do this all by myself without any input from you" and would be considered nasty and immoral if they did so it seems such expectation would always be there in the form of putting all faith and trust in such entity to provide.

Regards,

 

[NMSquirrel]

No. He makes it clear we are not perfect.

im not arguing that there is no point to better ourselves..i am argueing we should not be so focused on how messed up we are..

The very same one who sets the standard. God

interpreted by man..IE man uses god as an excuse to demean others lives who does not fit into their own interpretation of what gods standards are.

SnakeLord
1. I've never been a theist or christian so I am unsure how to address this. Is this how theists are? Are they always asking their god for more?

if you were to ask god for 1000 bucks..and you got it..how many more times would you be asking him for more money?

2. Worth wondering if such god forces such state of affairs. It seems that should a theist attempt to go off on his own, to put god aside for a while, he is acting in an evil, dark manner - hence he seems to always be stuck in a position where such outcome is unavoidable.

that is called backsliding..jesus will always forgive our sins..

It seems not many theists would say "god, please don't interfere, I want to do this all by myself without any input from you" and would be considered nasty and immoral if they did so it seems such expectation would always be there in the form of putting all faith and trust in such entity to provide.

hence the comment about ppl wanting more miracles..

Red Devil

NMSquirrel: Did Jesus die on the cross? I do not think so. He was drugged, to give the appearance of death, the soldier stuck a spear in him to 'check' and then allowed his body to be removed before he could actually 'die'. The wound, was not fatal, it was a mere 'prick' and of course it drew no reaction as Jesus was out cold. Crucifixions were always left on the cross, so why was he quickly removed? It was a con. A train of thought is that JC was smuggled out of the middle east and lived and died in an area near or in Tibet. I do not know, so cannot comment but believe its entirely possible.

JC was a member of the sect Sons of God and as such was an enemy of the occupying forces, it makes sense that he would be removed from the theatre of influence to avoid recognition.

interesting idea..is this your position or did you learn it from elsewhere? (IOW link please)

As for miracles, mentioned above - anything unexplained is a 'miracle'? It need not mean exactly that.

true enough..

 

[SnakeLord]

if you were to ask god for 1000 bucks..and you got it..how many more times would you be asking him for more money?

Given that I have never been theist, I can only answer the question using real world basis. So, if I asked a friend for £1000 and he gave it to me, it would mean I'd continually ask him? I don't think this is necessarily the case although some individuals might be that way inclined.

that is called backsliding..jesus will always forgive our sins..

1. This is my point. Being in a position where you are not asking for more but instead going off on your own and doing things for yourself is written up as "backsliding" - a negative expression. If you must "put all your faith and trust in god", as christians continually espouse, then there's no reason not to expect it to provide everything for you.

2. As for "Jesus will always forgive your sins". What sins, and what difference does it make? If an individual cannot forgive himself for what he has done or the person he has wronged does not forgive him for what he has done, it's irrelevant what Jesus does or does not do.

hence the comment about ppl wanting more miracles..

What people want more miracles?

 

[Red Devil]

NM, more and more evidence is coming to light in scrolls etc and if you look at the life of Jesus as historical rather than spiritual, then it all becomes clear. The finding of a hebrew twelve stone altar under Mount Karkhoum (sp?)(Exodus) near the present Israeli border; the massacre of the Sons of God Sect on that settlement on top of the mountain, the fact that Jesus was given 'vinegar' to drink - why? Unless it was a drug. A psear point in his side failed to rouse him after he had supposedly 'died'. But his friends were quick to cut him down before he woke up. He did not resurrect, because he was never buried and who did the sepulchre belong to, it was not built for Jesus. Jesus was radical anti occupation forces. The Sons of God, much like the IRA of the 70s/80s had a psycho element as well as a political element, Jesus belonged to the latter. Why is the New Testament riddled with stories of his fight against Rome? Jesus was a nobleman, direct line of the David dynasty. Mary (Magdelene) was a noble's daughter. Mary was also his wife, and they had a daughter who Joseph of Armithea secreted away to what is not France to be hidden by Jewish sects there. Direct line still exists today in France.

These are all topics of discussion in intellectual circles and shown on Discovery etc over the past few years. forget DAn Brown's Da Vinci code, a work of fiction based on supposed fact but just as believable as any bible version. Read between the lines in the New Testament and the truth is there for all to see, except those whjo want to believe that its all to do with a man made religion.

 

[SnakeLord]

Peculiar pseudo-history based upon the word of self proclaimed "professors". "I've found the ark on Mount Karkom" or some other object they say - none of which has any factual basis.

The fantasy presented by you is simply worthless although I do encourage you to provide whatever actual evidence you might have.

Regards,

 

[Red Devil]

I never mentioned the Ark? Where did that come from? Fantasy? Are you actually so stifled by what you beielve as to not be open minded about new discoveries?

A tv team followed a group of international archeologists to the Sinai in order to find that which had not yet been found. In the case of the exodus it tells us that Moses went up Mount Sinai in order to receive the ten commandments. What the bible actually says in he went up a MOUNT IN SINAI. And, when he returned, he found that the Israelites had built an altar of twelve stones in their 'camp' etc.

The archeologists found at the base of a MOUNT in SINAI a Hebrew settlement dating to the approx time of the exodus (and a volcanic eruption of high magnitude in Santorini) and found an 12 stone altar, virtually intact in the same settlement.

Who was Moses? Is the title of this Discovery program.

Moses arrived at the "Mountain of God", supposed by many to mean Mount Sinai.

and

Mount Kharkom means "Mountain of God" - and is flat topped, like a plateau. At the base of this mountain has been found a 2000BC settlement but most remarkably, a twelve stone altar - just as described in Exodus. Also, to put the icing on the cake so to speak, has been found rock carvings, dated the same, in Hebrew - showing, amongst other things, a depiction of a the traditional idea of the 10 Commandment's type of drawing - what can best described as a double tablet with 10 compartments. It is generally believed amongst archaeologists that the Hebrew race at the time could and did write - a most literate race. Their rock carvings are in Hebrew. Moses, having been educated within the Egyptian equivalent of Oxford or Yale, was the most literate.

 

[Adstar]

im not arguing that there is no point to better ourselves..i am argueing we should not be so focused on how messed up we are..

That not what my reply was countering, You said that "god says we are perfect just as we are" God does not say any such thing. He says we are not perfect.

interpreted by man..IE man uses god as an excuse to demean others lives who does not fit into their own interpretation of what gods standards are.

No Judged by God. Followers of God use the words of God to bring the realization to others of their imperfection. That is the foundational belief needed to then seek and accept the forgiveness of God. Only the Proud think of it as demeaning. The meek take it on board. That's why Pride comes before destruction and the meek shall inherit the Earth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

I never mentioned the Ark? Where did that come from?

Apologies, it was personal humour at the countless claims of fundamentalist christians - self proclaimed 'scientists' - who have "discovered" countless things that show their fundamentalist christianity as true but which have this rather unfortunate side-effect of only ever being mentioned on fundamentalist christian websites and spurious documentaries.

Are you actually so stifled by what you beielve as to not be open minded about new discoveries?

Not at all, what I am bothered about is how such "discoveries" don't ever make it anywhere other than fundamentalist christian websites and only include "scientists" that aren't scientists, but are admitted fundamentalist christians, (Weeks/Kohn).

It's like telling me you watched a documentary that says they've discovered aliens that was made and presented by hardcore alien believing fanatics. And, of course, those aliens never see the light of day. They're never presented to the world, never make it in to a peer reviewed scientific journal or even CNN for that matter but seem to remain forever trapped on fundamentalist websites.

Why wouldn't that bother me?

Let's say, for instance, that I have claimed people have found Homo Floresiensis, (little people). Imagine if instead of directing you to Science, to Nature or other scientific peer reviewed journals, I just said I watched it on a documentary on TV, (I should point out that any idiot who knows how to operate a camera can make a documentary). What would you think at this point?

It's not that I'm not "open minded", it's just that I've not yet lost the plot.

It is generally believed amongst archaeologists

Give me names.

Moses, having been educated within the Egyptian equivalent of Oxford or Yale

They found this information at the site? There was a stone listing the existence of Moses and his qualifications?

 

[AlexG]

They found this information at the site? There was a stone listing the existence of Moses and his qualifications?

No, he watched Charlton Heston in "The Ten Commandments".

 

[Shadow1]

correction, well, idk, but, i think jesus the son of mary, have been crossed by jews, and not for he's people sins, he's not responsible on other people sins.

 

[Raithere]

would you take his place?
if it meant saving ppl you do not even know?
would you sacrifice yourself to save someone?
have you stepped up when the opportunity presented itself for you to keep someone else from harm?

Would I risk my life to save others from real harm. Yes.

Have I intervened to prevent harm to others? Yes.

Would I take his place and give my life as some absurd blood sacrifice? No.

~Raithere

 

[SolusCado]

But Jesus knows that he is god, and that death means nothing to him. So he did nothing for the sins of others.

What verse indicates he knew he would come back to life? Or for that matter, when did he call himself God?