Would this not make the Christian God... evil?

[w1z4rd]

I would like you to have a closer look at exodus. Where the Christian God made sure many many people died and suffer. More specifically I want to write about the 7 plague story when Moses apparently tried to leave Egypt with the Jews.

In the story God uses everything from locusts through to frogs through to mass slaughter to convince the pharaoh to let the Jews go. A completely disgusting way to get your idea across to one person.

Now take the following passages into consideration:

"And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto
them; as the LORD had said."
Exodus 7:13, KJV

"But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not
let the children of Israel go...But the LORD hardened
Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go."
Exodus 10:20, 27, KJV


"And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh:
and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not
let the children of Israel go out of his land."
Exodus 11:10, KJV

It looks like me like God convinced the Pharaoh not to let the Jews go just so he could get his slaughterfest.

So is God evil? Does he create/work with evil?

"And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him." (I Samuel 16:23)

Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give [them] unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
(Samuel 2: 12-1)

Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, [and] him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
(1 Kings 14: 10)

I see God works with evil well.

 

[iam]

the fuker is very evil

 

[lightgigantic]

I would like you to have a closer look at exodus. Where the Christian God made sure many many people died and suffer. More specifically I want to write about the 7 plague story when Moses apparently tried to leave Egypt with the Jews.

In the story God uses everything from locusts through to frogs through to mass slaughter to convince the pharaoh to let the Jews go. A completely disgusting way to get your idea across to one person.

what a skillful school teacher can achieve with a single raised eyebrow is very difficult for a buffalo herder to achieve with a big stick and a colourful vocabulary

Now take the following passages into consideration:



It looks like me like God convinced the Pharaoh not to let the Jews go just so he could get his slaughterfest.

god facilitates every one's desire - even if we want to act like a fool, we have to be empowered by god

So is God evil? Does he create/work with evil?

god deals with the problem of evil by the creation of the material world - the special liberty here being that one has the ability to perform acts of stupidity and also receive concomitant reactions for such stupidity - all with the aim of helping us draw the connection between stupidity and suffering - the ability to draw the connection depends on how much we are like a buffalo or not

I see God works with evil well.

So do I

SB 11.7.8: One whose consciousness is bewildered by illusion perceives many differences in value and meaning among material objects. Thus one engages constantly on the platform of material good and evil and is bound by such conceptions. Absorbed in material duality, such a person contemplates the performance of compulsory duties, nonperformance of such duties and performance of forbidden activities.

 

[SnakeLord]

the special liberty here being that one has the ability to perform acts of stupidity and also receive concomitant reactions for such stupidity

In short: When a child acts like an idiot, god gives him leukemia

 

[w1z4rd]

god facilitates every one's desire - even if we want to act like a fool, we have to be empowered by god

Let me get this right... the desire of an "evil" pharaoh to subjugate a people is more important than some 8yr old about to die of a terminal disease. Where the fck does your God get his priorities?

 

[Prince_James]

LightGigantic is a Hindu. The Bhagavad Gita completely rejects the potency of the physical world to impact the soul. Suffering is ephemeral and ultimately less real than the Absolute Personality of Godhead, whose company we wish to return to in love and devotion.

 

[lightgigantic]

In short: When a child acts like an idiot, god gives him leukemia

disease is generally related to any one of a wide range of sinful activities in a previous life

the general principle is facility that is misused is taken away at a later date

Let me get this right... the desire of an "evil" pharaoh to subjugate a people is more important than some 8yr old about to die of a terminal disease. Where the fck does your God get his priorities?

its more like a person who has a desire to forget god is given facility to forget god - this forgetfulness can be achieved through attaining pious material benefits (like say rising to the position of a pharaoh) or impious material afflictions (like say coming down with a terminal disease)

for one who desires to remember god however, no range of pious material benefits (like say rising to the position of a pharaoh) or impious material afflictions (like say coming down with a terminal disease) can sway them from their remembrance of god.

It depends on the desire of the living entity, and the fulfillment of that desire (either way - to remember or forget) is the mercy of god

LightGigantic is a Hindu. The Bhagavad Gita completely rejects the potency of the physical world to impact the soul. Suffering is ephemeral and ultimately less real than the Absolute Personality of Godhead, whose company we wish to return to in love and devotion.

I wasn't aware that christianity made a distinction that the suffering/happiness one experiences in the phenomenal material world is on par with eternity of heaven
????

BG 2.14: O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

 

[SnakeLord]

disease is generally related to any one of a wide range of sinful activities in a previous life

Lol past life?

However, that doesn't then detract from my statement:

When a child acts like an idiot, (in a past life), god gives him leukemia, (in his next one).

 

[w1z4rd]

What a god. Must make him feel more powerful to make mortals suffer.

 

[lightgigantic]

Lol past life?

However, that doesn't then detract from my statement:

When a child acts like an idiot, (in a past life), god gives him leukemia, (in his next one).

in either case, whether being in a state of idiocy or sickness, the state is temporary.

I really don't see what the problem is since the court of law makes similar contributions to society to keep it on the path of civility or even sanity

 

[lightgigantic]

What a god. Must make him feel more powerful to make mortals suffer.

ironically its not uncommon for persons serving long term jail sentences to have similar feelings of animosity towards the persons responsible for their sentencing (never mind what they might have done to get there)

 

[SnakeLord]

in either case, whether being in a state of idiocy or sickness, the state is temporary.

Unless they're unfortunate enough to be struck down with some disgusting illness in their next 1000 lives.. right?

I really don't see what the problem is since the court of law makes similar contributions to society to keep it on the path of civility or even sanity

A court of law gives kids leukemia?

 

[lightgigantic]

Unless they're unfortunate enough to be struck down with some disgusting illness in their next 1000 lives.. right?

temporarily, yes

A court of law gives kids leukemia?

no, but it does give temporary punishments aimed at rehabilitation to people from all walks of life

 

[SnakeLord]

temporarily, yes

When does all this 'next life' nonsense end? Is it like a Mario game where you get 3 lives to begin with but can get extras for eating big mushrooms and stuff?

If the cycle goes on for ever, it couldn't be temporary.

no, but it does give temporary punishments aimed at rehabilitation to people from all walks of life

To children less than a month old?

 

[lightgigantic]

When does all this 'next life' nonsense end? Is it like a Mario game where you get 3 lives to begin with but can get extras for eating big mushrooms and stuff?

yes it is kind of like a mario game, except its like you have unlimited lives - it ends when you get sick of wasting your time with it

If the cycle goes on for ever, it couldn't be temporary.

as long as one wants to go on eating those mushrooms, the game continues

To children less than a month old?

penal boards deal out punishments according to their jurisdiction - so school boards have one jurisdiction, local councils have another, state authorities another and national ones another and global ones yet another - so since we are discussing the extent of god's jurisdiction, it would be foolish to demand that it is non different from the jurisdiction of bodies run by humans, even they they all might operate on the same general princple

 

[SnakeLord]

yes it is kind of like a mario game, except its like you have unlimited lives - it ends when you get sick of wasting your time with it

I see. So how does one turn the console off?

as long as one wants to go on eating those mushrooms, the game continues

Right, but then what knowledge of a past life does a 6 month old child with leukemia have? So in his past life he didn't have leukemia, and thought - hey, I'm going to have another go. This time the gods struck him down with leukemia for kicks and, him having no knowledge of past lives or mistakes he made on them, is now forced to suffer for something he technically cannot be held liable for.

penal boards deal out punishments according to their jurisdiction - so school boards have one jurisdiction, local councils have another, state authorities another and national ones another and global ones yet another - so since we are discussing the extent of god's jurisdiction, it would be foolish to demand that it is non different from the jurisdiction of bodies run by humans, even they they all might operate on the same general princple

And so... god gives kids leukemia. Courts don't, god does.

 

[lightgigantic]

Snakelord
“

yes it is kind of like a mario game, except its like you have unlimited lives - it ends when you get sick of wasting your time with it
”
I see. So how does one turn the console off?

as soon as you find something better to do you can work it out for yourself

“
as long as one wants to go on eating those mushrooms, the game continues
”
Right, but then what knowledge of a past life does a 6 month old child with leukemia have? So in his past life he didn't have leukemia, and thought - hey, I'm going to have another go. This time the gods struck him down with leukemia for kicks

actually they struck him down because he thought to have another go

and, him having no knowledge of past lives or mistakes he made on them, is now forced to suffer for something he technically cannot be held liable for.

knows or doesn't know, there's something about inhibiting one's propensity to act like a reckless arsehole that makes one humble and considerate

“
penal boards deal out punishments according to their jurisdiction - so school boards have one jurisdiction, local councils have another, state authorities another and national ones another and global ones yet another - so since we are discussing the extent of god's jurisdiction, it would be foolish to demand that it is non different from the jurisdiction of bodies run by humans, even they they all might operate on the same general princple
”
And so... god gives kids leukemia. Courts don't, god does.

so you expect god and the courts to have identical jurisdictions?

 

[SnakeLord]

as soon as you find something better to do you can work it out for yourself

Hmm, what would that be? Given the context of this discussion it would seem you're indicating that the 'better' thing is death?

actually they struck him down because he thought to have another go

Right so.. when he's dead he has to decide not to come to life again? How does a corpse go about making that decision?

knows or doesn't know, there's something about inhibiting one's propensity to act like a reckless arsehole that makes one humble and considerate

What reckless arsehole-ishness are we talking about that warrants having leukemia?

so you expect god and the courts to have identical jurisdictions?

? I was just clarifying the matter. You need only say yes or no. god gives kids leukemia.. right? Last time you waffled on about courts when there was no need or point. Yes or no LG.

 

[Enterprise-D]

yes it is kind of like a mario game, except its like you have unlimited lives - it ends when you get sick of wasting your time with it

???

I have never heard any hindu whom I know allude to any possible way for "lives" - in the philosophical, BG sense - to end via a mortal's prompt. Admittedly I did not ask, and since I believe LG pretends at whatever philosophy blankets him in obtuse quotations to attempt to bamboozle the reader, I shall investigate.

 

[lightgigantic]

Snakelord

“
as soon as you find something better to do you can work it out for yourself
”
Hmm, what would that be? Given the context of this discussion it would seem you're indicating that the 'better' thing is death?

for a materialist to retreat from death means to retreat from life, hence I can appreciate your dilemna

“
actually they struck him down because he thought to have another go
”
Right so.. when he's dead he has to decide not to come to life again? How does a corpse go about making that decision?

Its more a case that in the course of his activities while he was living he made that decision

“
knows or doesn't know, there's something about inhibiting one's propensity to act like a reckless arsehole that makes one humble and considerate
”
What reckless arsehole-ishness are we talking about that warrants having leukemia?

any number of a wide range of sinful activities - basically misusing an opulence (in this case health) results in it being revoked or impaired sometime in the future

“
so you expect god and the courts to have identical jurisdictions?
”
? I was just clarifying the matter. You need only say yes or no. god gives kids leukemia.. right? Last time you waffled on about courts when there was no need or point. Yes or no LG.

it illustrates the notion of justice, and justice just so happens to be an integral component to social civility, even though it may appear harsh to the guilty party - basically you seem to be arguing that if a person acts willfully yet at a later date has no recollection of the said deeds they are innocent - why do you think even ordinary justice does not work like that?