Wonderful Heaven
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Your God isn't Human. It wouldn't think like a human. But, according to the notion of a Judge being Just - - then YES, God would need a moral right. As creator of the Universe I’m sure It would recognize that fact too.§outh§tar said:I didn't know God needed "moral right" to judge..
He does. Any sin, from one lie, to killing thousands of people is the same to his. The wages of sin is death. Because of that one sin, you have earned the right to die. Just as a murderer can be given the death sentence by a judge, God has that right with us.
Ergo it is a sin to use Adam (who had no other option then to disobey God’s command – as Adam wouldn’t have known it was “wrong/evil) as an excess to condemn innocent humans to suffering is a sin and as such God has sinned and therefore God by his own punishment is Dead. As such there is no God.Enigma'07 said:
What an evil God you wish was real.Enigma'07 said:
Completely wrong.Enigma'07 said:
A jaywalker can be given the death sentence.
A person voicing political opposition can be given a death sentence.
To carry out a death sentence on these “sins” would be considered evil by any moral civilized society. And certainly the Act of carrying out an unjust sentence in no way lends morality to the Act of killing nor to the Actor doing the killing.
If anything it condemns the Act and the Actor.
As such, Adam’s innocent (as we’ve agreed) act can not by any moral judge be deemed a sin. To condemn an innocent to death we agree is evil. As I hear said God can not be Evil. Ergo anyone with a scrap of sense will conclude there is no God.
As such creating the universe must (by your reasoning) be a whim. So you worship a whimsical illogical irrational evil sinning being. As there’s no evidence for such a being (other than someone told me so) it again leaves us to conclude there is no such being.§outh§tar said:
Whimsical – Actions from god must be whimsical because god has no need.
Irrational – God is omniscience and therefore rational thought is impossible.
Evil – God kills and killing is evil (even God says so
Sinning – see above
Illogical – as some say God can do anything (like make a round square) then God is illogical.
Mythical – oh wait . . . . small bites, small bites
Irrational – God is omniscience and therefore rational thought is impossible.
Evil – God kills and killing is evil (even God says so
Sinning – see above
Illogical – as some say God can do anything (like make a round square) then God is illogical.
Mythical – oh wait . . . . small bites, small bites
Did I not already say: He created the universe solely to glorify Himself.Michael said:
You'll have to splain this one to me.
God doesn't kill. He takes the life that was already His to begin with. Since life is already His property, there is nothing evil at all involved and He is FULLY justified.Evil – God kills and killing is evil (even God says so
See above too.
God dos anything that pleases Him. If it pleases God to make a round circle, He would do it. Just because you cannot fathom how a HUMAN concept can be molded so does not make it impossible.
Mythical – oh wait . . . . small bites, small bites
Chew thoroughly.
The behavior is still whimsical. God has no need to Glorify himself. God has no need to kill. God has no need. Therefore the behavior is on a whim (for no reason).§outh§tar said:
Rational thought is a process that can not be done if one already has the answer. In short you think about something “rationally” and come to a conclusion. That is impossible for God as God already knows. (another limitation of God – rationality).
Taking away life is killing regardless of who owns the life. Killing is killing – the act has no need to include definition of ownership. By your reasoning there was never a slave killed.
The act of killing is sinful. Killing is a sin. God kills. God is sinful. It can’t get any easier than that.
Round SQUARES are illogical. By definition a square exists in this universe and is defined as having four straight and equal sides, it is symmetrical and 2D and is impossible to make round!!
But I do digress. My mortal mind is just too thick to understand Gods round square
SO let me pose it another way: 1) Can God make a universe not made by God?
2) Can God make a riddle so tricky even God can not figure it out?
(I’d personally like an answer to #1 if you don’t mind)
Small bits AND chew thoroughly.
Michael said:
Are you saying because God has no need to glorify Himself, He shouldn't? What I was saying is, He has no need for us to be glorified Himself, since He is glorified regardless; He is as He was as He will be.
God needs not be limited by human viewpoints on rationanlity, which are assuredly limited and continuously flawed.
There is only killing because of the law. If there was no (moral) law against killing, it wouldn't be killing as you (or I) see it. Now the law doesn't apply to God and consequently, God is not a killer.
God is not limited to this universe, again by definition, He is omnipresent.
But I do digress. My mortal mind is just too thick to understand Gods round square
1) Can God make a universe not made by God?
2) Can God make a riddle so tricky even God can not figure it out?
(I’d personally like an answer to #1 if you don’t mind)
God only does things that please Him. That is why He is God. If it pleases Him, He will do it. Just because you can't fathom it doesn't mean it can't be done.
Small bits AND chew thoroughly.
Chew the fat.
That is fine and also completely off the point.§outh§tar said:
I agreed with in that you said God has no NEED. Which YOU stated. I agreed. OK GOD HAS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED. FOR ANYTHING. No Need. None. Not for Glory nor For food not for ANYTHING. No NEED. None.
We agree.
Now let me reiterate: God has no need (for anything) then the creation of the universe was not to satisfy any form of need (as God has no needs) it was purely on a whim. Therefore God is whimsical.
Simple really
Rationality is a thinking process. Therefore one can only have it if one thinks. God doesn’t think. God is omniscient - God ONLY knows.§outh§tar said:
God doesn’t think God knows.
If you concede that God thinks and is rational then you accept that God is not omnscienct. As you do think God is omniscient then God is not rational – as rational is a thinking process.
Sorry if that is disturbing to you but it is the way it is.
No that is not true. You are talking rubbish.§outh§tar said:
Killing is an ACT regardless of whether there is a Law for or against it.
Killing is an act.
Killing = act
Regardless of Law Killing is an act.
Sinking in?
God Kills ergo God is a Killer.
Killing is a sin ergo Killers are Sinners.
God is a Killer ergo God is a Sinner.
Sinners are condemned to death by God.
God is dead.
There is no God.
Really quite simple
I didn’t say God was limited to this universe.§outh§tar said:
But what I do see is you avoiding my questions.
Is the question that telling?
Too much for your GOD for you to give me a simple YES or NO?
In case you do find YOUR God is worthy of answering the questions with a YES or a NO then I will Let me reiterate:
1) Can God make a universe not made by God?
2) Can God make a riddle so tricky even God can not figure it out?
If you can not answer in a simple YES or NO and feel the need to go on about one red-hearing after another (as you have) then we will take that as we are in agreement that there is NO god and that you are just having a difficult time dealing with that and feel that posing other questions is a way of avoiding the obvious.
Thats fair enough.
They a poised in a YES or NO format. I would like to have an answer if you don’t mind. But really this is where believing in a fantasy rubs up against logic. We both know that you SOUTHSTAR can not and will not give me a YES or NO answer to my simple questions on the abilities and limitations of God. Is God capable of creating a Universe Not created by God or not. Yes or No? Is God capable of creating a riddle so tricky that even God can not figure it out? Yes or No?
Well what is it? Yes or No?
Thanks and on that note adios I’m off to the Great Barrie Reef to go diving for a week. Which gives you plenty of time to consider your YES or NO answers!
Cheers and chop chop,
Michael
PS: AFTER / IF you answer the questions with a YES or a NO then when I return I'd like to discuss the ramifications
SouthStar,
Kat
The very action of a conceited egotist. Clearly a serious character flaw, thank god such a monster doesn’t exist.
Mustn’t? Mustn’t? Who the heck do you think you are? The idea of god is just a concept – don’t get so upset about people insulting a concept.
Why can’t an infinite being be illogical? The property of infinity does not imply an inherrently logical outlook.
Kat
I'd hate to see people use that as an excuse to do whatever they want with their fully developed sperm or eggs. :\
Do you not realize how silly all of this is? Quit defending the actions of someone else's assumptions of who and what God is and does. Go ahead and believe in an almighty god, but don't listen to people that have the nerve to try and define that which they do not know. To start getting into the mentality and actions of God is silly since we aren't even on the same plane as him to comprehend it all. All these assumptions just getcha in trouble. So have faith in God, have faith in YOUR personal beliefs, not someone elses. That way you at least get criticized for your own mistakes and contradictions in your beliefs and not someone else's faulty story. Well, unless you do like taking the blame from others. It must be the Jesus in ya, taking others sins for yourself.
- N
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