Will Christians ever express remorse for "witch" burning?

[Godless]

That is precisely why I don't owe anything to the "witches" that people burned a long time ago. I don't owe shit to witches, native americans, or blacks. And if you think that MY being a Christian somehow entitles SOMEBODY ELSE to an apology, frankly you can kiss my ass.

Ah! the true face of Christianity. Very christian btw.

 

[spidergoat]

Who is supposed to apologize? The Pope already did, and most of the persecution of "witches" happened under Protestants. Besides, many still believe in witchcraft, which is, of course, just the demonization of earlier Shamanistic Goddess religions of ancient Europe.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Christians never burnt witches.

And your apologies over the Vietnam war are worthless. The only apology of worth comes from the one who took part in the wrong doing. You thinking that the children bear the responsibility of their ancestor’s wrong doings leads to situations like the Balkans. People carrying out vengeance because of a wrong doing perpetrated upon their distant ancestors.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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M*W: Adstar, you've just one the prize for being the most stupid christian on the forum. Woody is now runner-up!

"Christians never burnt witches," you said. Then who did? Please try to explain yourself out of yet another one of your christian lies!

 

[c7ityi_]

M*W, just because someone says he's a Christian doesn't mean he is.

Christians are the followers of Christ. Christ wouldn't burn witches, so those who burned witches were not Christians, they were idiots. But of course, there were both good and evil witches.

 

[snake river rufus]

In Haiti, yes. Because, when France recognized Haitian independance, they forced the Haitian government to pay a massive indemnity in reparation to former slave-holders. The reprecussions of this is still being felt today, as Haiti's economy is still crippled, in part because of the indemnification and in part to thier history of unstable rulers.

I appologize, I was thinking only of the U.S. as the question was phrased to include native americans.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Christians never burnt witches. Christians never burnt witches.

And your apologies over the Vietnam war are worthless. The only apology of worth comes from the one who took part in the wrong doing. You thinking that the children bear the responsibility of their ancestor’s wrong doings leads to situations like the Balkans. People carrying out vengeance because of a wrong doing perpetrated upon their distant ancestors. All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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M*W: Adstar, you are one sick motherfucker. You are the kind of stupid christian that believes he is infalliable! You are a sick motherfucker. Yeah, I said it, you are one sick motherfucker!

 

[Adstar]

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M*W: Adstar, you've just one the prize for being the most stupid christian on the forum. Woody is now runner-up!

"Christians never burnt witches," you said. Then who did? Please try to explain yourself out of yet another one of your christian lies!

You know exactly what my answer is going to be MW i have told you before on more than one occasion that false christians kill their enemies not true Christians. True Christians love their enemies and do all they can to save the deceived from their deception. I have had the joy of helping a wiccan to come to the truth of Jesus.

You know who burnt witches MW , you where one of them MW, serving and teaching the catechism for them. You taught deception of false religion and now you teach deception from the new age movement. You still serve the same power. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

2 Timothy 3
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

*************
M*W: Adstar, you are one sick motherfucker. You are the kind of stupid christian that believes he is infalliable! You are a sick motherfucker. Yeah, I said it, you are one sick motherfucker!

Water of a ducks back MW. Is that all you can do now? Just repeat an accusation again and again and again and hope it sticks? You reveal yourself. The darkness within you. Your false allegations and degenerate insults reveal your heart.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[cole grey]

You can't look at the redress situation as a return for specific actions that someone else did to someone else a long time ago.
Like Nietszche pointed out in the genealogy of morals, you would have to keep going back and back and back to find the original causes. I add that you would also have to go forward into speculation to decide whether certain things had good results in later generations, persecution notwithstanding. It is impossible to quantify.
The general idea though is one of respect for people who have brought themselves out of hard situations, and help to those who have hard situations partly due to oppression (especially financial).
Those people who have recieved more than they were due, and there are many I know of personally, should kick down something.
For example the great-great-grandchildren of plantation owners, who have recieved inheritances, should donate to schools in the ghetto.
People who inherited land, in the best parts of california and elsewhere, should give a little something to schools on indian reservations.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is only fair.
You hardline, greedy bastards who try to point out the problems involved should shut up. I'm not saying people have to give up their houses and lands and all their money.

 

[Adstar]

You can't look at the redress situation as a return for specific actions that someone else did to someone else a long time ago.
Like Nietszche pointed out in the genealogy of morals, you would have to keep going back and back and back to find the original causes. I add that you would also have to go forward into speculation to decide whether certain things had good results in later generations, persecution notwithstanding. It is impossible to quantify.
The general idea though is one of respect for people who have brought themselves out of hard situations, and help to those who have hard situations partly due to oppression (especially financial).
Those people who have recieved more than they were due, and there are many I know of personally, should kick down something.
For example the great-great-grandchildren of plantation owners, who have recieved inheritances, should donate to schools in the ghetto.
People who inherited land, in the best parts of california and elsewhere, should give a little something to schools on indian reservations.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is only fair.
You hardline, greedy bastards who try to point out the problems involved should shut up. I'm not saying people have to give up their houses and lands and all their money.

cole that is giving something to overcome the after affects of the persecution upon the descendants of the ones who suffered an injustice. That is a noble and right thing to do. Doing all we can to assist people to be free from dependence and poverty is good.

Also doing ones best to defeat bigotry (an additional block to a fair chance to all) is also a needed action, through laws and positive education. These actions by people of good will do far more good than hollow useless apologies by politicians and the ranting of hate filled populists stirring up resentment using an issue for their personal social standing and gain.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

You can't look at the redress situation as a return for specific actions that someone else did to someone else a long time ago.
Like Nietszche pointed out in the genealogy of morals, you would have to keep going back and back and back to find the original causes. I add that you would also have to go forward into speculation to decide whether certain things had good results in later generations, persecution notwithstanding. It is impossible to quantify.

As stated on the other post with some specific relevant additions:

Why then, given your statements, are mankind up shit creek directly because of the actions of the first man and woman?

god had to suicide himself to forgive us for having sin that is only in us because 1 man and woman, who weren't given proper understanding, made a slight error in judgement.

 

[cole grey]

In order to allow humanity to attain the level of consciousness it has, i.e. not merely animal existence, it may have had to be presented with a choice, or even an opposition to beat itself against.
We consider it evil, but it may be just the way things had to be.
The sacrifice of God is to allow us to move into another level of existence beyond that of man+animal, which is not possible through our existence as man+animal.

Must you take the bible as so artlessly literal? It can be both literal and figurative, but it is surely an interpretation of God through mankind's eyes, with all the limitations that that confers.

 

[geeser]

something I saw, and thought was apt to this thread, I'm not saying anne frank was a witch, it just the burning part.

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him Evil."
"the God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, forever. For that, christian call him good?"

go figure.

 

[ddovala]

M*W, just because someone says he's a Christian doesn't mean he is.

Christians are the followers of Christ. Christ wouldn't burn witches, so those who burned witches were not Christians, they were idiots. But of course, there were both good and evil witches.

Very good post -- there is a big difference between preaching your religion and actually living by the teachings.

The same can be said for other religions as well, like Islam.

 

[spidergoat]

something I saw, and thought was apt to this thread, I'm not saying anne frank was a witch, it just the burning part.

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him Evil."
"the God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, forever. For that, christian call him good?"

go figure.

That's brilliant.

 

[Mythbuster]

http://www.kriminalmuseum.rothenburg.de/Englisch/honour.html

Church punishment for people who did not go to church or fell asleep during the service !

The Rosary was also used as a form of punishment by the Catholic Church in Europe during the Middle Ages. People were often forced to wear extremely large, and heavy Rosary beads around their necks, and forced to stand at the entrance of a cathedral, where they could be ridiculed by the public. Victims of this act were often punished for minor sacreligious acts, such as falling asleep in church, not donating enough money during collections, or just skipping church altogether.

 

[spidergoat]

Whoa, is that made of lead?

 

[Mythbuster]

It's made of huge tones !

 

[SnakeLord]

In order to allow humanity to attain the level of consciousness it has, i.e. not merely animal existence, it may have had to be presented with a choice

Why? Surely a god could just give them knowledge of good and evil, and be done with it?

We consider it evil, but it may be just the way things had to be.

Omnipotence does not allow for things "having" to be a specific way.

The sacrifice of God is to allow us to move into another level of existence beyond that of man+animal

This could have been achieved without the need for suicide.

Must you take the bible as so artlessly literal?

Not at all, the bible is a briefly entertaining fiction story just like Harry Potter. However, for the sake of this discussion, yes. Of course that can change if you can justify a reason why it shouldn't be considered as literal - and then do the courtesy of understanding that there would then be no valid reason to take any of it literally.

It can be both literal and figurative

And you're the man that decides which is which?

 

[Light]

Are any christians ever going to apologise on behalf of all the "witches" that were burnt at the stake by their christian ancestors?
I mean, now we know there is no such thing as witches, which should have been evident, because the idea was that witches wouldn't burn, but real people would - and guess what? They all burned.


I express remorse over the vietnam war, the iraq war, etc etc and I had nothing to do with them. I apologise on behalf of my country's leader's lies, and wrong decisions - that have contributed to taking the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocents between the 2 wars.

Huwy, no - I cannot apologize for them.

I'm sorry, your reasoning is meant to be honorable but it is very faulty. Only the people who actually participated in something can apologize for their actions.

It is precisely your line of thinking that keeps the African slave issue alive today. And it causes a lot of unnecessary trouble. Depending upon your ancestry, are you also prepared to apologize for the actions of the Vikings? Or the Gauls? Or the Trojans? Or the Mongols? Or the Germans? Or the Japanese? Or the Italians? Or the... shall I go on?