Wife beating?

[GeoffP]

There is no qualification to write on the internet is there?

Absolutely not! Thank goodness.

Do you believe everything thats written on the net?

Only the plausible bits. And alien abduction.

If my website was, say, TRUTH.ORG, would you believe everything that was written on it?

...well it does say "truth.org". I mean, duhr.

The best way of course is to learn the language and DIY, but another course would be to examine several interpretations and look at the most objective ones (from unbiased educated scholars who have studied the Quran). And not confuse cultural habits with religious belief.

And when the scholars are confused? What then?

 

[GeoffP]

And what's with that frigging cat anyway? Ain't natural.

 

[draqon]

this is wrong on so many levels

 

[GeoffP]

I agree. Cats should be banned.

 

[S.A.M.]

And when the scholars are confused? What then?

Scholars only provide information. Decision making is a personal process.

 

[S.A.M.]

this is wrong on so many levels

No its not, discussion is never wrong (at least not where I come from)

 

[draqon]

No its not, discussion is never wrong (at least not where I come from)

that last video...the guy discussing the definition of light beatings.

Under my own belief...I will transcend into another life when I die, but I will not know that...so I can be this muslim woman...And I dont want to be beaten...with definitions like lightly beaten: dont cause death or bleeding and not on the head. THAT IS SO WRONG.

 

[GeoffP]

All right, so scholars are not the final say.

And your cat is still wrong. It's like dogs and cats living together; t'ain't nat'rul.

 

[S.A.M.]

All right, so scholars are not the final say.

And your cat is still wrong. It's like dogs and cats living together; t'ain't nat'rul.

No self appointed scholar should be the final say for a Muslim.

The first verse that was revealed said Read, for your Lord is most benevolent. Then around 13 times in the Quran there is an admonition to travel all over the world and learn by experience. There is also an admonishment that discussion is essential for arriving at a consensus and one must take the advice of those who have studied deeply on the subject (this is a general admonishment for any knowledge gathering).

So yes, one scholar is not the final say.

And leave my puddy alone.

 

[GeoffP]

No self appointed scholar should be the final say for a Muslim.

The first verse that was revealed said Read, for your Lord is most benevolent. Then around 13 times in the Quran there is an admonition to travel all over the world and learn by experience. There is also an admonishment that discussion is essential for arriving at a consensus and one must take the advice of those who have studied deeply on the subject (this is a general admonishment for any knowledge gathering).

So yes, one scholar is not the final say.

And leave my puddy alone.

All right, no need to get your colostomy bag in a knot. I believe that it is indeed possible to get a peaceful worldview from the Quran. It's just that the order of revelation and the change in world view from the Medinan to Meccan phases doesn't strike me as peaceful.

Evil catlover.

 

[GeoffP]

I was going to write something worse but, neh, I've got enough points for the week.

 

[S.A.M.]

I was going to write something worse but, neh, I've got enough points for the week.

No you haven't

 

[GeoffP]

No you haven't

You know, however much you beg for a verbal accosting, you're not going to get it.

O very well: I was going to say "I never even touched your puddy." Happy now?

 

[leopold]

This is an exercise in the nuances of the Arabic language:

The Arabic word used in verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from "daraba" which means "beat". The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word "daraba" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English.

The word "daraba" in verse 14:24 "Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? -- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". "daraba" here meant "give an example". If I say in Arabic "daraba laka mathal", it means "give you an example".

The word "darabtum", which is derived from the word "daraba" in verse 4:94, which mean to "go abroad" :

"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully...

Hence it need not mean "beat" as in hit, but beat as in beat it for some time. (they are all in the same chapter).

The more accurate translation would be:
(4:34) [...]as for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.

This is how this verse is interpreted by Islamic scholars.

This is corroborated by verses that forbid harsh treatment of wives:

"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(2:231)"

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (4:128)"

Those who believe that this verse refers to wife beating are those who stop thinking at a place where the verse meets their expectations.

HA, HA
this is sams response to post 7, ol' liveinfaith hasn't been seen since.

as to the question of "wife beating":
can you imagine being beaten?
it's your choice, but don't get mad if i try and stop you.

 

[S.A.M.]

HA, HA
this is sams response to post 7, ol' liveinfaith hasn't been seen since.

as to the question of "wife beating":
can you imagine being beaten?
it's your choice, but don't get mad if i try and stop you.

Is that supposed to make sense?

 

[leopold]

Is that supposed to make sense?

what part of, liveinfaith hasn't been seen since, and, "wife beating" sucks, don't you understand?

 

[S.A.M.]

what part of, liveinfaith hasn't been seen since, and, "wife beating" sucks, don't you understand?

Probably just hasn't been online since?

 

[LiveInFaith]

Me was responding to the video.
I haven't made any interpretation of 'beat', whcih could be literally 'hit' or a symbol of hard warning (like leaving as sam said).

As the video talks, it was regulating the way to execute WHEN it is interpreted as literal hit.

The interpretation could be literal or symbolic, depend on who does it. Both have their own background to hold the interpreation.

I myself, considering the whole soul of the teachings in Qur'an, would not interpret it as hitting, but hard warning by all means. One can 'hit' the brain and feelings, considering one know how to beat their wifes by words and actions. Leaving (divorce) is the ultimate action, which is an act of 'allowed but strongly not recommended'.

 

[S.A.M.]

Talk about timing!

 

[leopold]

I myself, considering the whole soul of the teachings in Qur'an, would not interpret it as hitting, but hard warning by all means. One can 'hit' the brain and feelings, considering one know how to beat their wifes by words and actions. Leaving (divorce) is the ultimate action, which is an act of 'allowed but strongly not recommended'.

no, you are not allowed to beat your wife.
anybody that advocates otherwise is sexist.