Wife beating?

[GeoffP]

Ah but I had to translate because none of you know the language, if you did it would be sufficient for me to simply indicate the other places where the word occurs with a different meaning.

Naughty hairsplitter. Very well. *bows*

You need not accept any authority if you don't choose to.

M'lady, I would, and your earnesty also.

...Earnesty? Earnestness. Meh. Geoff no care.

 

[GeoffP]

Language is merely abstract thought.

And beer belches the abstraction of language.

Education.

But really what does it say about people that they prefer the less salutary choices?

To my mind, that they have a healthy dose of doubt. The history of humanity is not replete with humanism.

 

[S.A.M.]

To my mind, that they have a healthy dose of doubt. The history of humanity is not replete with humanism.

And they say "we are secular humanists".

Sometimes I think that needs more faith than religion.

 

[GeoffP]

Ah! Ye will judge them by their acts, indeed.

 

[boa]

No I'm saying there are other meanings of the same word in the same chapter, so you don't have to explore the etymology to know that there is more than one meaning.

It looks like the scholars are stretching to save the day.

So, aren't there other words instead of "idribuhunna" that will clearly translate to "beat it" or "drop it"? Why Allah didn't use that exact word to avoid the misinterpretations? Let me guess, maybe he's not so perfect after all.

 

[GeoffP]

Sam may be right. I found these lyrics in an ancient scroll buried in the Sands of Arabia just a few minutes ago.

"Beat It"

(aka "Idribuhunna")

- Mohammed

Meccans told him "don't you come 'round here"
Don't wanna hear your da'wa, better disappear
But the fire's down in Hell 4:34 is really clear
So idribuhunna, idribuhunna

You better go to Medina, better do what you can
Spilling kufr blood makes you real halaal, man
But the ladies think you're punkass, so you got to raise th' hand -
- And do a runn-ah; idribuhunna

[groin grabbing, thrusting etc.]

Chorus:

Just beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Show her how funky and fard is your fight
Give her two lefts when she mentions her rights
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it (idribuhunna)

Infidels are out to get you, better war while you can
Got a Message to deliver, got to take a stand
But the chicks have got you beat, so you run from ol' Shai'tan
So beat it, idribuhunna

You have to show them that you're really not scared
They're laughing at your manhood while they primp and do their hair
They don't listen and they spend lots
It would almost seem 'bout fair -
But beat it, 'cause they're all uncovered

Just beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Show her how funky and fard is your fight
Give her two lefts when she mentions her rights
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it (idribuhunna)

 

[boa]

This is an exercise in the nuances of the Arabic language:


....

Hence it need not mean "beat" as in hit, but beat as in beat it for some time. (they are all in the same chapter).

....

This is how this verse is interpreted by Islamic scholars.

....

Those who believe that this verse refers to wife beating are those who stop thinking at a place where the verse meets their expectations.

Here is a scholar:

"Most women in the world today do not enjoy the protection verse 4:34 grants them. Instead they are unjustly abused, verbally and physically, by unrighteous men in unrighteous ways, and get beaten up for the most trivial of reasons, or for no reason at all. According to 4:34 even if the husband has a good reason, he is not allowed to lay a hand on his wife until he has passed all the previous steps.

The woman's responsibility in a marriage starts the day she chooses a husband. If she wants to enjoy her God given rights, she must obey her God given commands, and choose a believing husband. Thus, she can expect from him to treat her in accordance with God's decree, and not transgress against her. She can expect from a believing husband that he will heed any reminder she gives him, if he forgets. If she chooses to disregard God's commands, she has to know that there will be consequences. "

submission.org/women/beating.html

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is a scholar:

"Most women in the world today do not enjoy the protection verse 4:34 grants them. Instead they are unjustly abused, verbally and physically, by unrighteous men in unrighteous ways, and get beaten up for the most trivial of reasons, or for no reason at all. According to 4:34 even if the husband has a good reason, he is not allowed to lay a hand on his wife until he has passed all the previous steps.

The woman's responsibility in a marriage starts the day she chooses a husband. If she wants to enjoy her God given rights, she must obey her God given commands, and choose a believing husband. Thus, she can expect from him to treat her in accordance with God's decree, and not transgress against her. She can expect from a believing husband that he will heed any reminder she gives him, if he forgets. If she chooses to disregard God's commands, she has to know that there will be consequences. "

submission.org/women/beating.html

What qualifies this author as a scholar?

 

[boa]

What qualifies this author as a scholar?

Ok, I'm new to the forum, and I need to know your qualifications of a scholar.

The point is that this verse can be interpreted in the way this person has and the way it is being published on the Internet is horrifying.

So the real question is how has this verse been interpreted throughout the centuries and how many women were the victim of it, and who is responsible of the misinterpretation. The Imam? Muhammad? Allah? Communication breakdown?

Oh, I got it. Lack of qualified scholars...

 

[S.A.M.]

Ok, I'm new to the forum, and I need to know your qualifications of a scholar.

The point is that this verse can be interpreted in the way this person has and the way it is being published on the Internet is horrifying.

So the real question is how has this verse been interpreted throughout the centuries and how many women were the victim of it, and who is responsible of the misinterpretation. The Imam? Muhammad? Allah? Communication breakdown?

Oh, I got it. Lack of qualified scholars...

Its interpreted as people choose to interpret it. All interpretations are available, so why is the one about wife beating most popular?

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam may be right. I found these lyrics in an ancient scroll buried in the Sands of Arabia just a few minutes ago.

Oh goanboylyeread

 

[boa]

Its interpreted as people choose to interpret it. All interpretations are available, so why is the one about wife beating most popular?

Because wife beating is wrong Sam, why is there a wrong thing in Quran? (It's not the only one)

If I were god/God/Allah and were to send a book I wouldn't give a chance to misinterpretation and have the women suffer, why subtlety?

 

[Ayodhya]

Sam may be right. I found these lyrics in an ancient scroll buried in the Sands of Arabia just a few minutes ago.

If you wrote that Geoffp, that is quite skilled!

 

[GeoffP]

Oh goanboylyeread

Hehe - g'anylzeyerpoothan.

 

[S.A.M.]

Because wife beating is wrong Sam, why is there a wrong thing in Quran? (It's not the only one)

If I were god/God/Allah and were to send a book I wouldn't give a chance to misinterpretation and have the women suffer, why subtlety?

Is the wrong thing in the Quran or are people using the Quran to justify their wrongdoings?

After all, if there is an interpretation which does not indicate wrong doing, why select one that does? Why even have an interpretation that indicates wrong doing?

Its only subtle if you want to do wrong and then justify it. A man with no insidious motive would KNOW the right interpretation, given how often both reason and mercy are stressed as being the ultimate quality of a Muslim.

 

[GeoffP]

If you wrote that Geoffp, that is quite skilled!

*bows* I thankee!

Me own work, by the craft o' me own hands, and the rot o' me own brain, har har!

...sorry, watching Pirates of the Carribbean 2. Quite like the Davy Jones character - excellent accent. Need to introduce it into many, many conversations.

 

[S.A.M.]

If you wrote that Geoffp, that is quite skilled!

He's an artist.

 

[boa]

Is the wrong thing in the Quran or are people using the Quran to justify their wrongdoings?

They don't know it's wrongdoing because the interpretation(by others) tells them to do so.

After all, if there is an interpretation which does not indicate wrong doing, why select one that does? Why even have an interpretation that indicates wrong doing?

Because of the subtlety, get it?

Its only subtle if you want to do wrong and then justify it. A man with no insidious motive would KNOW the right interpretation, given how often both reason and mercy are stressed as being the ultimate quality of a Muslim.

So this Fathima Khaldoon (a woman presumably) wants to do wrong to who, herself? Why doesn't she just beat herself up?

How many wrong interpretations do you think has been done since 622 AD?
If you say one I'll say that's one too many.

 

[GeoffP]

Ah, yes - a sensitive soul, I am, to be sure. The very soul of an artist.

 

[S.A.M.]

They don't know it's wrongdoing because the interpretation(by others) tells them to do so.


Because of the subtlety, get it?


So this Fathima Khaldoon (a woman presumably) wants to do wrong to who, herself? Why doesn't she just beat herself up?

How many wrong interpretations do you think has been done since 622 AD?
If you say one I'll say that's one too many.

There is no qualification to write on the internet is there?

Do you believe everything thats written on the net?

If my website was, say, TRUTH.ORG, would you believe everything that was written on it?

The best way of course is to learn the language and DIY, but another course would be to examine several interpretations and look at the most objective ones (from unbiased educated scholars who have studied the Quran). And not confuse cultural habits with religious belief.