why we need ghosts

Or we can let science explain it with research.

Ghostly apparitions and hauntings have pervaded folklore and legend for thousands of years, but now scientists have shown that they are just a figment of the imagination.

Artificial ‘spectres’ were conjured up by an experiment which proved so disconcerting for participants that two begged for it to stop.

Scientists have long suspected that ghosts are an illusion created by the mind. Patients who suffer from neurological or psychiatric conditions often report ‘strange presences.’

And people experiencing extreme physical or emotional pain often claim to have seen ghostly outlines or felt that departed loved ones were back in the room with them.

Now, however, scientists in Switzerland have shown that ghosts are probably just an illusion created by the mind when it momentarily loses track of the body’s location because of illness, exertion or stress.

Volunteers took part in an experiment which mixed up their movements and brain signals.

They saw up to four phantoms positioned around them and believed that ghosts were touching their backs with invisible fingers.

Professor Olaf Blanke, from the Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland, said: "Our experiment induced the sensation of a foreign presence in the laboratory for the first time.

“It shows that it can arise under normal conditions, simply through conflicting sensory-motor signals.

"This confirms that it is caused by an altered perception of their own bodies in the brain."

To manifest their ghosts, the scientists set up a robot device that allowed volunteers to control the movements of a jointed mechanical arm with their index fingers.

The movements were relayed to another robot arm behind them which touched their backs.

When both the finger-pushing and back-touching occurred at the same time, it created the illusion that the volunteers were caressing their own backs.

That felt weird enough to the blindfolded participants. But something a lot stranger happened when the back-touching was delayed and about 500 milliseconds out of sync with the finger movements.

Suddenly the volunteers felt as if they were being watched, and touched, by one or more ghostly presences.

At the same time, they had the disconcerting sensation of drifting backwards, towards the unseen hand.

When questioned, several reported a strong feeling of invisible people being close to them. On average, they counted two, with up to four being reported.

Two of the 12 healthy participants were so disturbed by the experience that they asked the scientists to halt the experiment.

Co-author Dr Giulio Rognini, also from the EPFL, said: "Our brain possesses several representations of our body in space.

“Under normal conditions, it is able to assemble a unified self-perception of the self from these representations.

“But when the system malfunctions because of disease - or, in this case, a robot - this can sometimes create a second representation of one's own body, which is no longer perceived as 'me' but as someone else, a 'presence'."

The experiment suggests that "feelings of presence" (FOPs), often interpreted as spirits, angels or demons, are really all in the mind, say the researchers.

Such experiences are frequently reported by people in extreme physical or emotional situations, such as mountaineers and explorers, or those grieving for a lost loved one.

They are also associated with medical conditions that affect the brain, including epilepsy, stroke, migraine and cancer.


And the kicker..

Before conducting the experiment, the researchers carried out brain scans of 12 patients with neurological disorders who had encountered FOPs in the past.

They identified disturbances in three specific brain regions, the insular cortex, parietal-frontal cortex, and temporo-parietal cortex. All were involved in self-awareness, movement, and sense of position in space.

The research was published in the journal Current Biology.


In other words, it's all in your head.

“It shows that it can arise under normal conditions, simply through conflicting sensory-motor signals.

LOL! No it did not. It showed that people can misperceive things when blindfolded with robots touching them. That's not "normal conditions." That's highly contrived conditions designed to deceive and trick the brain into mistaking one sensation for another. It does not even address why people would see ghosts in normal situations where no such elaborate trickery is going on. It also doesn't address why ghosts are seen AND heard AND felt. 3 senses involved mind you. Not just one sense, which is what is typical with hallucinations. Hallucinations are rarely if ever multisensory in nature.
 
In the case of the firefighter, when they checked the pillar that the apparition was first seen, it was unexplainably cooler than the surroundings obviously due to the fire. How could anyone offer proof or explain such an occurrence? It was just extraordinary.

I suppose some of you in the same situation with an apparition pointing the way out, would just debate the issue in your head. No, that is not real, i am just hallucinating. So therefore, i will ignore as its all in my head etc. Because the logic in my head is so much more important, knows all and has total understanding of the universe. Even if you did just took its direction stuck between a rock and a hard place, you would conclude coincidence. Very convenient.

Can you refer me to that account by the firefighter? It sounds very compelling to me.
 
Ghosts don't "fit" with everything else we know about our world. They are claimed to have features and abilities that make no sense in the light of what we know about the natural world. It is, of course, claimed that ghosts are supernatural - they literally operate without the constraints of natural laws (laws of physics, for example).

Quantum physics doesn't "fit" with everything else we know about the world. Quanta of energy are claimed to have features and abilities that make no sense in the light of what we know about the natural world. It is, ofcourse, claimed that quanta are nonlocal--they literally operate without the constraints of natural laws (laws of physics, for example).

The Big Bang doesn't "fit" with everything else we know about the world either. There were no laws around yet for it to conform to. How does the entire universe and spacetime itself explode from a particle the size of a pea? Where did the pea come from? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence no? Or, perhaps the universe itself is quite an extraordinary place where such things can happen.
 
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Quantum physics doesn't "fit" with everything else we know about the world.
The Big Bang doesn't "fit" with everything else we know about the world either.
The point is any of us, can observe quantum weirdness in action and any of us can observe the overwhelming evidence for the BB if we were of a mind to.
Not everyone though is gullible enough, or is hallucinatory enough to imagine ghosts, goblins and UFO's of Alien origins, because in essence, they really do not occur or exist..
 
The point is any of us, can observe quantum weirdness in action and any of us can observe the overwhelming evidence for the BB if we were of a mind to.
Not everyone though is gullible enough, or is hallucinatory enough to imagine ghosts, goblins and UFO's of Alien origins, because in essence, they really do not occur or exist..

The point being science cannot dismiss a phenomena just because it defies our everyday world view and the known laws of physics. If we did we wouldn't accept quantum phenomena or the Big Bang, evidence or not. Apparently reality is capable of behaving in many ways that defy our all too human logic. The paranormal is one of those ways.
 
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The point being science cannot dismiss a phenomena just because it defies our everyday world view and the known laws of physics. If we did we wouldn't except quantum phenomena or the Big Bang, evidence or not.
No, the point is that science knows it does not as yet know it all, but we do have positive observational evidence for quantum weirdness and the BB, that any person, any layman, any child can observe, if he or she has a mind to.
That cannot be said for the paranormal or the supernatural.
 
No, the point is that science knows it does not as yet know it all, but we do have positive observational evidence for quantum weirdness and the BB, that any person, any layman, any child can observe, if he or she has a mind to.
That cannot be said for the paranormal or the supernatural.

Nope..thousands of paranormal investigations confirm everyday the reality of the paranormal. Eyewitness accounts, photos, EMF measurements, infrared and full spectrum video, and audio playback solidly back up those claims. I'm afraid it's quite real, and not being able to explain it matters not one bit. And anyone can observe paranormal events should they get up the nerve to spend enough time in a haunted location.
 
I'd say most of what happens to people everyday cannot be proven with reproducible evidence. Does this mean it doesn't happen? Your assumption is that science has to reproduce a phenomena to accept its reality. And yet we have black holes, and earthquakes, and tsunamis, and F5 tornadoes, and dark matter, and gravity, and the Big Bang, and all sorts of phenomena what occur that cannot be reproduced in a lab. Paranormal activity appears to be of that same elusive nature. To understand it, you have to go to haunted locations at night and explore and set up equipment that can detect such anomalies. Oftentimes nothing happens. But in the instances it does, it makes it totally worth it.

You are adopting (deliberately I suspect: I don't believe you are genuinely stupid) the creationists' fallacy of affecting to maintain that a reproducible observation requires replicating an entire phenomenon in a laboratory. This is nonsense. To take one example from your list, the seismic waves from earthquakes are routinely corroborated by different people in multiple locations around the world. That is what makes them reproducible observations. You do not have to replicate an earthquake in a lab. The observation is the seismic wave, from which an earthquake is inferred,according to the theory we have of earthquakes.

In a similar way, the various pieces of observational evidence that lead to cosmological theories such as the Big Bang (e.g. cosmic background radiation) have been corroborated by multiple people in different ways. Field geological observations (fossils, properties of rock strata and so forth) can be corroborated by different people - no laboratory is necessary at all in this case. And so on and so on.

What about ghosts? Nope. What you get is anecdotes reported, which cannot be corroborated. The observations, such as they are, are not reproducible.
 
Nope..thousands of paranormal investigations confirm everyday the reality of the paranormal. Eyewitness accounts, photos, EMF measurements, infrared and full spectrum video, and audio playback solidly back up those claims. I'm afraid it's quite real, and not being able to explain it matters not one bit. And anyone can observe paranormal events should they get up the nerve to spend enough time in a haunted location.
Do they?...That's a porky pie and you know it.
Most sensible people know how easy it is to fool other people with a doctored photo, particularly if they have a barrow to push.
If what you say were true, I should be able to walk to the cemetery and be flooded by ghosts, or walk outside and observe some other paranormal or supernatural event at the drop of a hat.
I am able to go though to the local University and ask for observational evidence and/or experiment of quantum weirdness, or to an Observatory and ask for observational evidence of the BB.
 
In a similar way, the various pieces of observational evidence that lead to cosmological theories such as the Big Bang (e.g. cosmic background radiation) have been corroborated by multiple people in different ways. Field geological observations (fossils, properties of rock strata and so forth) can be corroborated by different people - no laboratory is necessary at all in this case. And so on and so on.

In a similar way, the various pieces of observational evidence that lead to paranormal theories such as ghosts (e.g. EMF fields and balls of light and sounds) have been corroborated by multiple people in different ways. Field observations (moving objects, voices, slamming doors, footsteps in empty bldgs, full body apparitions, scratches on the body,) can be corroborated by different people - no laboratory is necessary at all in this case. And so on and so on. But we all know science can't afford to explore this field. It would lead to a job flipping burgers at McDonald's.
 
Credible c
Nope..thousands of paranormal investigations confirm everyday the reality of the paranormal. Eyewitness accounts, photos, EMF measurements, infrared and full spectrum video, and audio playback solidly back up those claims. I'm afraid it's quite real, and not being able to explain it matters not one bit. And anyone can observe paranormal events should they get up the nerve to spend enough time in a haunted location.

Can you provide credible references for any of this? What is an EMF measurement and can you show us examples?
 
If what you say were true, I should be able to walk to the cemetery and be flooded by ghosts, or walk outside and observe some other paranormal or supernatural event at the drop of a hat

Not at all. No more than you could go outside and be flooded by falling stars or ball lightning. But your chances are greatly increased if you spend a few nights at a haunted location. Much as one would camp out in a thunderstorm to observe ball lightning.
 
In a similar way, the various pieces of observational evidence that lead to paranormal theories such as ghosts (e.g. EMF fields and balls of light and sounds) have been corroborated by multiple people in different ways. Field observations (moving objects, voices, slamming door, footsteps in empty bldgs, full body apparitions) can be corroborated by different people - no laboratory is necessary at all in this case. And so on and so on. But we all know science can't afford to explore this field. It would lead to a job flipping burgers at McDonalds.
I have seen objects move rather mysteriously at first glance and after investigation quite readily explainable by physics.....
I have had door slam on me, at first glance apparently mysteriously: After investigation, I found I left an open window through which a gust of wind was responsible....
I have heard footsteps in buildings I thought were empty: I was wrong....they were not empty.
I have seen an apparition after waking up from a dream: I was of course still half asleep.

Paranormal and supernatural claims are all figments of people's imagination, caused by what they want to see and gullibility, explained by many mundane reasons. Those that cannot be explained, remain unexplained...Like some Alien sightings and/or abductions.
No physical evidence [like a dead body or Alien syringe or other experimental instrument] has ever been forthcoming not withstanding Fox Mulder's sister in the X-Files.
 
Except it does. There's a TV in the kitchen. So there is power in the house.

Not enough to be picked up as EMF in the bedroom. The EMF meter has to be right next to the cable or appliance to pick up the field. I have one myself.

Here's another one that indicates a moving EMF field:

 
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EMF meter going off several times in an old desert cemetery. Audio only:

"Arizona Research & Mediumship Society (ARMS) investigation of Congress Pioneer Cemetery. We were doing an EVP session when the EMF reader spontaneously began to go off - the cemetery is in a remote area of the desert with no electrical wiring, underground pipes, or other possible causes of high EMF readings. The EMF reader went off 7 times in a 4 minute period of the EVP session."


EMF meter spiking at 8! in a remote wooded area during an investigation. Trigger object: a bench.

 
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