why we need ghosts

Yazata said:
2. The problem of circular reasoning. That crops up when people address a question with their conclusion already in mind, then look for arguments and evidence that will support that preexisting conclusion. Religious people and atheists both typically do it when they address the question of God's existence. Ghost-believers like MR do it when they assume that what most of us would consider flimsy evidence is in fact conclusive evidence of the existence of ghosts. And self-styled "skeptics" do it when they approach purported hauntings with the intention of persuading others that they are bullshit. In fact, this kind of circular reasoning is exceedingly common in most human thought. It's how people typically think.

...

Anyone who asserts the truth of any proposition, and wants to convince somebody else to believe it who doesn't believe it already, has the burden of persuading that other person. (Otherwise he or she won't agree.) That's going to be true whether the proposition asserts the existence or non-existence of something. "Negatives" don't get a special 'Get Out of Epistemological Justification Free' card.
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To be clear though, Y, skeptics don't start an argument in a vacuum by declaring there are no ghosts, any more than they start an argument that there are no purple people eaters.

There are an infinite number of things in the universe that don't exist until they do.

And it always must start with someone first asserting that they do.

So, yes the skeptic's job is to start with the assumption that something does not exist until sufficient compelling evidence is accepted.

That is not an a priori assumption (any more than the scientific method requires) or circular reasoning.

(Unless you want to assert purple people eaters and those infinite number of things exist until we can show they don't.)


Finally, thoughtful skeptics do not assert a truth that (for example) ghosts or UFOS don't exist. They assert that the evidence provided is insufficient to conclude they do.
 
Write4U said:
True, however, the more I think about it......:D
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Don't misunderstand; we all have our beliefs.

Generally, atheists believe there is no God.

But beliefs are not assertions.

Subjective beliefs don't need to be defended. Unless they're stated as objective assertions.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Don't misunderstand; we all have our beliefs.

Generally, atheists believe there is no God.

But beliefs are not assertions.

Subjective beliefs don't need to be defended. Unless they're stated as objective assertions.
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I agree, but a subjective belief that has evidentiary roots, may be considered cognition of objective fact.
 
Frankly, I don't think he is actually that naive. I think his enthusiasm overran his judgment. I posit that he has not even bothered to seriously analyze this video (and that, in retrospect, he privately realizes it's an imaging artifact). He's been just picking up whatever he can find and throwing it at the wall as fast as possible, hoping to cover the wall before it all slides off.

How about it MR? Are you willing to acknowledge that perhaps you gaffed on this one?
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Nope. Not at all. For one thing the so-called "artifact" moves behind the crib, showing it is not an artifact of video but something that was actually there. Secondly, there is all the supportive evidence for the haunting by the people who live there as described in the OP:
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"Mother-of-one Heather Brough, 25, from Michigan, discovered three deep 'purple scratches' on her one-year-old baby's cheek after waking her from a nap.

The unexplained injuries on her daughter Lily, prompted Ms Brough and her fiance Josh Higgins, 30, who live at his mother's guesthouse, to check their baby camera.

And when reviewing the footage, they claim to have seen a male figure briskly walking past Lily's cot before disappearing into thin-air.

A young couple have claimed they are being driven from their home by a violent 'schizophrenic' spirit after footage showed a ghostly figure walking past their daughter's crib.

The pair are now actively looking for a new home to get away from the 'haunted' property - after paranormal investigators confirmed the house had 'paranormal activity'.

Mr Higgins' mother said the former owner of the home was an elderly lady who lay with a broken hip for 'a very long time' until she was found dead at the bottom of the stairs.
Her schizophrenic brother lived in the guesthouse until his death some years later.

Ms Brough said: 'This is a spirit - I don't know what its intentions are but at this point it's becoming physically harmful. This has made us want to leave as soon as possible. As soon as possible we're out of here.

Mother-of-one Heather Brough, 25, from Michigan, discovered three deep 'purple scratches' on her baby's cheek after waking her from a nap and claims footage shows a male figure briskly walking past the tot's cot

'Seeing Lily's face with the scratches was so bizarre and frightening. There was no explanation as to how that would have happened. It happened within 20 minutes.

'We wondered if she'd scratched herself, but when we put her hands up to the scratches it did not match up. I think it's possible this is the previous tenant,' she added.

The seemingly creepy sighting on their baby camera is far from the first for Ms Brough, who claims she experienced months of ghostly goings-on prior to the incident.

She claims to have heard screaming, stomping, and laughing, while home alone and was even woken from her sleep by the sound of a male shouting.

'There have been times where me and my fiance would wake up in the morning and I would hear an angry male voice - like someone had stubbed their toe,' she explained.

She is now actively looking for a new home to get away from the 'haunted' property - after paranormal investigators confirmed the house had 'paranormal activity'.

The terrified mother added: 'The first couple of times it happened I thought my fiance and his brother were running up and down the stairs for things - but when I opened the door no-one was there.

'I woke up to get ready for work one morning and it felt like someone was choking me. It shook me to the point where I decided to buy our camera.'"
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IOW, there was evidence of the haunting in addition to the camera footage. This is consistent with most paranormal phenomena, not relying on one piece of evidence but incorporating all sorts of evidence.
 
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Magical Realist said:
Police respond to a racket in a school in Brazil. Here is what they found. Go full screen to see better.

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A door, opening and closing; that's compelling evidence of a door.

Opening and closing is literally the only thing a door exists for. If a door did not open and close, it would not be a door.

:rolleyes:
 
DaveC426913 said:
The same thing can be said about God, now that you mention it. :D
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God is interesting, too...definitely. ;)

MR doesn't believe in God; he finds it - waitforit - implausible.
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Hmm. I think that it could be because ghosts aren't in the worship business. Maybe it has something to do with that? I can't speak for MR, but just my best guess.
 
DaveC426913 said:
A door, opening and closing; that's compelling evidence of a door.

Opening and closing is literally the only thing a door exists for. If a door did not open and close, it would not be a door.

:rolleyes:
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Not by itself like that. Definitely poltergeist activity.
 
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wegs said:
God is interesting, too...definitely. ;)



Hmm. I think that it could be because ghosts aren't in the worship business. Maybe it has something to do with that? I can't speak for MR, but just my best guess.
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I never see God moving stuff or captured on video. Ghosts otoh? All the time..
 
Magical Realist said:
Wind wouldn't open that door and then slam it shut repeatedly. Especially in a closed up school hallway.
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How would you know? Stop being so ridiculous MR. If the door lock/latch was in the clicked open position, if there were draughts, an open window, or just from under another door.
Are you so tired up with your nonsensical ghost stories, that when one comes along that spikes your interest, you automatically reject every and all other possible causes?
wegs said:
We need ghosts because they’re so interesting to talk about.

:wink:
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You can talk about me? That's pretty interesting! :p
 
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