Why God doesn't exist

[mike47]

My biggest problem with God is : if God created us then who created him ?.
Obviously there is no real answer to this .
Even primary school kids ask this question as well .
If I say there is no God then the question is : who created me and all this huge universe ?!.
Catch 22....or simply not understood by men and women !!!.

 

[lightgigantic]

To talk to you on your level of understanding I need you to define reality and in keeping with your philosophy.

well I just offered one.

Do you think discussion requires a definition of reality before one can launch into topics of myth, etc, eh?

Am I going to get a accurate definition or something less?

at this point, it depends whether you actually put it on the table or not

:shrug:

 

[spidergoat]

My biggest problem with God is : if God created us then who created him ?.
Obviously there is no real answer to this .
Even primary school kids ask this question as well .
If I say there is no God then the question is : who created me and all this huge universe ?!.
Catch 22....or simply not understood by men and women !!!.

Your problem is asking "who". Instead consider "what" or "how". How is the same as why in physics.

 

[lightgigantic]

Your problem is asking "who". Instead consider "what" or "how". How is the same as why in physics.

"how" is certainly not the same as "why" in terms of anything that has a "self" however (at least according to Plato).

IOW issues of self and purpose make the question "Why did you come to this building today?" not really answerable by "well I caught the train"(or even a run down on what's going down with one's dna and synapses)

:shrug:

 

[Doreen]

Your problem is asking "who". Instead consider "what" or "how". How is the same as why in physics.

Which really is the same with people. The whole use of 'who' and other pronouns and subject words also for that matter should be eliminated, since everything can be reduced to what. We are determined entirely. Thus we are mechanical. Thus there are no agents. There are simply events or processes, inevitably unfolding.

To say 'I chose to________' runs counter to physics in a variety of ways.

 

[earth]

well I just offered one.

Do you think discussion requires a definition of reality before one can launch into topics of myth, etc, eh?


at this point, it depends whether you actually put it on the table or not

:shrug:

Your reality is relative and your reality relies on using a perspective that is something other than real. What you refer to as real is more likely to be computer graphics sent in data packets from advanced alien technology and all the while your're “thinking” you’re reaching something beyond time. However, are you beyond time in reality?

 

[lightgigantic]

Your reality is relative and your reality relies on using a perspective that is something other than real. What you refer to as real is more likely to be computer graphics sent in data packets from advanced alien technology and all the while your're “thinking” you’re reaching something beyond time. However, are you beyond time in reality?

now might be a good time for you to explain why you have the (exclusive) knack for having thoughts that are not data packets sent by aliens.

I mean surely you don't think that an alien couldn't just as easily implant thoughts to give the impression that they are you're own?

perhaps the only solution is to wear one of these

 

[earth]

We are determined entirely. Thus we are mechanical. Thus there are no agents. There are simply events or processes, inevitably unfolding.

When applying that thinking on a galactic scale, I can say yes. We are observers to events unfolding.

 

[earth]

I mean surely you don't think that an alien couldn't just as easily implant thoughts to give the impression that they are you're own?

You think God can implant thoughts.

Thanks for your philosophy, differing opinions are welcome.

 

[Doreen]

When applying that thinking on a galactic scale, I can say yes. We are observers to events unfolding.

Which is in no way agreeing with me. 'You' are just like those galactic events - which I personally never watch, but perhaps you have better access to radio telescopes. 'You' simply happen. You have the illusion of control, but in fact all you do is determined just like those galactic events. There is not separate you. You are not an agent. Things happen.

 

[earth]

'You' simply happen. You have the illusion of control, but in fact all you do is determined just like those galactic events. There is not separate you. You are not an agent. Things happen.

If you want to describe birth and rebirth allowing evolution as the driver, then yes we more or less “simply happen“.

The laws of nature and physics including gravity have us bound and in those respects we lack control.

I determine the on goings of my day to day life within the laws established by our government. So when you talk about control then everyone is seeking to control something, if it’s nothing more then a dog or cat.

To tell me living (alive) creatures like ourselves are nothing more than computers receiving input, well, that's oversimplifying. Living within our environment dictates who we are and how we cope.

 

[swarm]

If I say there is no God then the question is : who created me and all this huge universe ?!.

You weren't created in that sense and neither was the universe. No god = no "who" and no "created."

 

[Doreen]

If you want to describe birth and rebirth allowing evolution as the driver, then yes we more or less “simply happen“.

The laws of nature and physics including gravity have us bound and in those respects we lack control.

The laws of phyics go way beyond gravity. They control all the little impacts and all the interlockings of all the little chemicals that make 'you'. These impacts and interactions are all utterly determined.

I determine the on goings of my day to day life within the laws established by our government.

I don't know what this 'I' you are referring to is. 'You' do exactly what you are determined to do given all the vectors and qualities of the chemicals in you, as impinged upon by patterns already in place, and those added in from the environment.

To tell me living (alive) creatures like ourselves are nothing more than computers receiving input, well, that's oversimplifying. Living within our environment dictates who we are and how we cope.

and computers have no real identity and have no free will. They do not choose.

 

[lightgigantic]

You think God can implant thoughts.

kind of

he empowers us through issues of our knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness

BG 15.15 I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.

Thanks for your philosophy, differing opinions are welcome.

you still haven't begun to explain why it isn't equally plausible that atheism is being engineered by some alien horde

 

[mike47]

Which really is the same with people. The whole use of 'who' and other pronouns and subject words also for that matter should be eliminated, since everything can be reduced to what. We are determined entirely. Thus we are mechanical. Thus there are no agents. There are simply events or processes, inevitably unfolding.

To say 'I chose to________' runs counter to physics in a variety of ways.

Events do not occur by themselves and they have causes .
In mechanical engineering NOTHING moves without a cause .

 

[Doreen]

Events do not occur by themselves and they have causes .
In mechanical engineering NOTHING moves without a cause .

You seem to be agreeing with me. But the entire process has already been set in motion. Your response to this post I am writing has already been determined. The domino in the line, which you are identifying with, does not choose. It falls due to, yes, causes. It may have a feeling of agency, but this is an illusion.

 

[earth]

The laws of phyics go way beyond gravity. They control all the little impacts and all the interlockings of all the little chemicals that make 'you'. These impacts and interactions are all utterly determined.

I don't know what this 'I' you are referring to is. 'You' do exactly what you are determined to do given all the vectors and qualities of the chemicals in you, as impinged upon by patterns already in place, and those added in from the environment.


and computers have no real identity and have no free will. They do not choose.

Question, how does this relate to God's absence from beyond time or the lack of evidence of a God existing?

 

[earth]

you still haven't begun to explain why it isn't equally plausible that atheism is being engineered by some alien horde

If atheism is being engineered by some alien civilization, then what would be their purpose causing people not to believe in a creator of everything?

 

[earth]

Your response to this post I am writing has already been determined.

I can't agree Doreen. Predetermined or fate doesn‘t prove out. The randomness of events happening shown through quantum theory contradicts fate as the all elusive everything. At the quantum level particles are in chaos and “randomness” is the definitive word. One can’t get predetermining out of quantum foam chaos. Flip a coin a few times and each time the result of the coin flip happens by chance. Quantum theory is observable simply by flipping a coin.

By your comment you're proposing a person winning the lottery did it by fate or was predetermined to win. The randomness of the numbers drawn in a lottery and the resulting winner happens by chance and not fate.

The belief in fate is a religious teaching and has it’s origins based in myth.

The environment a person lives within during his/her lifetime determines the opportunities that person has from which to choose while going through life and fate doesn’t compute. Opportunities are man made and they're not picked off a tree, there and waiting, though fate believers think so.

The way you're interpreting life is when a person decides to buy a house and that person spends a few years saving for a down payment then that is his/her fate or predetermined. Not so because a decision was made first. You use an "after the fact" decision making process as an example and then call it fate. You can’t prove fate that way.

To think everything that exists was predetermined to happen in a precise way, preplanned by some unknown guide is fallacy. There would have to be some sort of a "guide" doing the planning in advance for fate to have a realistic chance of existing, you know. Fate speaks of creation as a belief and the author of fate or predetermining would need to be able to read tea leaves, thereby knowing the future in advance, so fate could be planned out in advance. So who is your "guide" making fate work for you, Doreen?

You can argue for the existence of fate, however, not with me. I find no evidence for the existence of fate because the examples provided by fate believers don't show the existence of a fate producer type "guide" who preplan the fate supposedly happening to individuals in the first place. Fate believers use "after the fact" examples and have no reliable predictablity established within a viable theory. Comparatively, the toss of a coin representing quantum mechanics does fine as acknowledgement of the reliability in determining we have a reality with present and future uncertainty. The coin traveling 22 years to reach the store keeper expressed in the video is more likely your viewpoint, I would say.

Probability theory is the branch of mathematics concerned with analysis of "random phenomena".

 

[earth]

As you can tell I'm flipping my coin..........

..........uncertainty is a property of reality