Why doesn't God just show himself?

Jenyar,


I just liked the *effect* of the Apocalypse and that of Job better than Jesus'. Shallow of me, huh?
Jesus was so ... static, prosaic, yes, boring. He didn't say one new thing to me.

Ah, yes, Job is a stereotype, stylized an simplified. But at the time, Job's story touched me more.

Jesus is much more real, he shows almost constant frustration and exhibits a very tangible patience.
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I hate to be preposterous, but I too am very capable of showing constant frustration and very tangible patience. In fact, I did so for several years. Only that I got bored of it. Sick and tired.

If you can sympathize with the struggle to endure a life of suffering, why not with the struggle of a life worth suffering?
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What are you implying?
 
RosaMagika,

Jesus and the Apocalypse are inextricably linked. You can't separate the one from the other. And Job provided a lot of the rhethoric we needed to understand Jesus' faith and suffering. It also overthrew a few cherished concepts, such as that suffering is always punishment or "justifiable" somehow.

Doesn't it bother you that Jesus didn't say anything new, and yet it grinded so many people that he was crucified for it? The frustration he had was with people who were supposed to understand it more than others - much like our frustration with each other, I assume. It's because a lot of what we take for granted today was new when he said it. Someone like Job couldn't create enough of a stir to change where the world was going, but without him the world would not understand the change itself. And he's just one of the many examples in the Bible.

But simply being frustrated, or sick and tired changes nothing and teaches nothing - nor does giving up being frustrated, feeling trapped or looking for answers. I found the answer in Jesus, so I can ask those questions to my heart's content. He provides a context within which I'm free to doubt and ask. The struggle is no longer meaningless to me, and suffering no longer threatens me. Not because it's gone, but because I can put it in perspective. But not on my own, I'm much too weak for that.

Sometimes we need someone else's words to describe what we can't express ourselves.
 
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Re: Why doesn't God just show himself?

Quite simply because God does, of a sort, and cannot by another.

Think of it this way: I dislike holy books because, as we might see with the example of the Bible, "God" is such a large idea that I have a hard time compressing it into a single volume that I can find in the nightstand of an hourly-rate motel.

I call it a shoebox God.

Why doesn't God show himself?

Well, let's take a look at the question itself: Why doesn't God show himself?

I point out the word "himself" not in the usual rebellion against phallic presumption, but rather because it indicates an anthropomorphization of God. We, in our minds, looking at an incomprehensible issue, reduce the idea--e.g. God--to something we can comprehend, and in our comprehension develop expectations.

If God is something, what becomes of what God isn't? If God is good, then what of evil? If God is here, then what is there? Or are you not seeing all of God?

It may well be (seems to be) that humans aren't designed to see God so clearly. In the metaphysical, such a conclusion is a possible° obvious solution; in the more applicably smallminded bargain for redemption, it's the reason for faith.
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Notes:

° a possible - These words can, on this occasion, be replaced with a single, more economic word: the.
 
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tiassa said:
I point out the word "himself" not in the usual rebellion against phallic presumption, but rather because it indicates an anthropomorphization of God. We, in our minds, looking at an incomprehensible issue, reduce the idea--e.g. God--to something we can comprehend, and in our comprehension develop expectations.

If God is something, what becomes of what God isn't? If God is good, then what of evil? If God is here, then what is there? Or are you not seeing all of God?
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Well said. *applause*
 
Jenyar said:
Well said. *applause*
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How can you applaud that while simultaneously subscribing to a religion that is the antithesis of the statement?
 
Christianity borrows anthropomorhisms as a means of conveying information about God, but simultaneously forbids idol worship, which presumes that there is a representative image of God. We need metaphors, but nobody demands to see a metaphor with their very own eyes.

What Tiassa said is perfectly biblical:
Jeremiah 23:23
"Am I only a God nearby," declares the LORD , "and not a God far away?​
 
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart; he has told us about him. [New Living Translation]​

Who can declare a trustworthy image of God except God himself? Jesus was like a veil, that we could see God without having to look at anything but ourselves.

"...what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[3:2 Or when it is made known] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2.
 
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I think of a God as all present life force that makes everything that it is. Bealiveing that and knowing that there are many many things we do not understand and know is enough for me. I guess that religion may help in answering your questions, and even ones that you havent asked yet. For instance if you look at Christianity and Buddhaism, you 'll see that they make an emphasis on similar things. Take what you like the most and you might find your answer. I hope I've been helpful, at least a bit :)
 
Jenyar said:
Sometimes we need someone else's words to describe what we can't express ourselves.
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M*W: Jenyar, how does the scripture you quoted say anything different from what I've been saying all along?

Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I only a God nearby," declares the LORD, "and not a God far away?
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M*W: This means to me that whomever Jeremiah is talking to or talking about (whether or not it's Jeremiah, I don't know), is saying that "he believes he is a God that is close to humanity and not a God far off somewhere." I believe what is trying to be said here is that the speaker believes he is God on Earth.
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John 1 18 No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart; he has told us about him. [New Living Translation]
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M*W: No one has ever seen God, because they simply don't recognize God when they look at it. Jesus was just an EXAMPLE to show all of humanity that WE (humanity) are nearer to God than we believe. We are God's heart, soul, mind, and strength. Therefore, we are the vessel to carry the pure force of positive energy across the face of the Earth.
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1 John 3:2 ...what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[3:2 Or when it is made known] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
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M*W: This is the promise that humanity is God, and we will recognize God in each other. Agape.
 
Medicine Woman said:
M*W: This is the promise that humanity is God, and we will recognize God in each other. Agape.
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Humanity is God? You mean like 6 Billion persons in one God? That sure beats the Trinity har har har! :D
 
You know what is wrong with Christianity and the belief in Jesus?

It is such a male thing.

It is such a patriarchal thing.

It is about male, analytical thinking.


The only reason why I find Jesus appealing is because there are some very ummmmm pictures of him -- that is, as seen by the various artists -- in which J. looks like such a dashing man. Uh. <3

What a misplaced metaphor for God being a man, a He!
This is why they told women to shut up in church, right? Because for women, it was/is to an extent inevitable to see the MAN in God and Jesus.


No wonder the Christian metaphorization of God and his imaging doesn't work properly.
Men can identify themselves with J. somehow, take him as an alter ego.

But what about women? Oh yes, Mary. But under what conditions!! And not even all Christians believe in Virgin Mary!

So they [men!] invented this ill, submissive, humiliating, you-should-be-happy-that-a-man-ever-even-looks-at-you idea of how women should love men.

Yikes.
 
So you're painting christianity as bad purely because of the sexism involved?

LOL.

*bites tongue*
 
DoctorNO said:
Humanity is God? You mean like 6 Billion persons in one God? That sure beats the Trinity har har har! :D
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M*W: Yes, exactly. Humanity is the One, the Only, God.
 
Oh so now you're anti-human! Dr. lou? Hello?

For a god, we kick ass! There's the whole schpeel, angels, miracles, plagues, pestulance, war... we've got it all!

We've even got Mel Gibson! Woo hoo!

LOL
 
DoctorNO said:
For a God we suck.
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M*W: But our evolution toward perfection is ongoing. I have faith in humanity. Your unworthy attitude is typically Christian. That's too bad. Your evolution may have stopped.
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Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: Yes, exactly. Humanity is the One, the Only, God.
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So, you're defining God as humanity?

In that case, God is a worthless concept, because we already have a word for humanity ("humanity") that doesn't confuse people.

I'm sorry, but Humanity is not God. Humanity is humanity.
 
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