Why does the government hide UFO's?

So you're essentially saying the account is all made up?

No don't jump to conclusions.

I am interested and am proceeding step by step asking appropriate questions.

I am not going to just say fine an African prince wants to share $500 mill with me if I lend him $100 and stick my hand straight on my pocket.

I am essentially saying "let's go thru it step by step"

Reading actual statements would be a reasonable first step.

Come on man do you want me to think it through or do you want a rubber stamp?

This account has been documented by military and govt officials and vetted by consulting with the eyewitnesses

And how do you know that from that half ass video?
If you know so much about it and there is more than the video put it on the table.

And noone said it was extraterrestrial.
Perhaps you should look at the video again and see if you pick up detail that I did not miss.

This hints that you are too casual in your review of evidence.

It is also a craft beyond anything we currently have.

It presents that way.

Anyway, I see where you stand on this issue. Tks for your "objective" analysis.

Do you really. You seem disappointed that I did what I said I would do.

It is a pity the video is so crook.

It is difficult to think it is on the level well because frankly it is a bad production.

And so it just seems to be bad reporting of an interesting incident.

But I won't be waiting around to hear you dismiss those too.

Well that is good because your poor response to me investing my time to give you a fair hearing let's me off the hook.

So you have alienated someone who was prepared to give you a go.

Review your attitude before you seek to engage me again.

Anyways the video proves nothing.

It raises unanswered questions but let's be clear it proves nothing.

You say it is proof and I say you have no idea of what the word proof means.

So you're saying this UFO didn't happen because there were no photos taken of it?

No if I had meant to say the words you attempt to put in my mouth I would have said them.

I observed the reality of a specific event and asked why we do not have more material.

Overall given you have difficulty interpreting just the words I put before you that are reasonably clear I take it that your interpretation of other matters before you may suffer and that is all I can say to you.

You display an un necessarily aggressive attitude and I don't like it.

Alex
 
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Anyways the video proves nothing.

LOL! That says it all. You could have saved yourself a buttload of wandering speculations and red herrings in the first post if you had just admitted that to begin with. Don't even pretend you're being objective here. "The video proves nothing!" Ta da! Case closed!

Don't waste my time anymore.
 
Anyways the video proves nothing.

It raises unanswered questions but let's be clear it proves nothing.

You say it is proof and I say you have no idea of what the word proof means.
Did he? Has he said anywhere that the video is "proof"?

If true, then you are correct. A video alone could not be proof of a claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

But I would be surprised if he used that word.
 
Did he? Has he said anywhere that the video is "proof"?

I said it offers no proof.

And I doubt if anyone will come forward and disagree.

I also said MR offers the video as proof.

My statement you show to be incorrect however I think it reasonable to imply that MR considers the video as proof considering his statement...
I present solid evidence of a phenomenon that's been occurring around the world for over 70 years now.

But as you say he did not use the exact words.

Better still have MR answer the question....

Do you regard the video as proof of anything in particular?

He can answer saying that he is merely offering evidence no doubt but I ask ...if evidence is to be accepted at what point do we call it proof.

Would you have me believe MR offers evidence and yet he does not consider such evidence proof.

I say the video offers no proof let MR say ...well yes it offers no proof it is only evidence.....if he could speak those words I feel it word be a big step forward..

Alex
 
http://www.relativelyinteresting.com/do-ufos-and-aliens-exist-20-reasons-to-be-skeptical/


Halo/Hole Punch cloud


Lenticular clouds that look like UFOs

(Source: http://www.meteorologynews.com/2009/10/12/hole-punch-cloud-not-ufo-spotted-over-moscow/)






the-x-files-i-want-to-believe-print.jpg


;)
 
http://www.endevil.com/aliensandufos.html

Aliens and U.F.O.´s

There have been thousands of reported UFO sightings, alien sightings and alien abductions over the years and many people not only believe that extra terrestrials exist but that they have visited earth, in fact according to a Gallup poll one third of Americans believe aliens have visited earth. There is a huge community of enthusiasts on the internet reporting on sightings and offering their own usually ridiculous explanations about the aliens, some of them claim to have identified a number of species and to know things about their social structure and what they want here on earth but it reads like cheap unimaginative sci-fi.

arnoldcrescent1947.jpg
When faced with obviously faked or even just unclear footage believers choose to interpret it as genuine because they want to believe. The level of belief among some enthusiasts is akin to religious faith in it´s stubborn refusal to logically examine the evidence. Applying the idea of Occam´s razor that the simplest explanation is probably correct it should be obvious that a hoax or unknown man made craft, or perhaps even a weather effect is far more likely as an explanation of a UFO sighting than an alien craft.

While it is certainly possible and perhaps even likely that we are not the only life in the universe it is distinctly unlikely that we are being visited by aliens. The case for aliens visiting earth is leant weight by the fact that many respected people have reported sightings and I don´t doubt that many of them believe what they are saying, although there are plenty of attention seeking liars out there too, but I do think in all probability they are mistaken about what they have seen.

The vast majority of UFO sightings if investigated can be explained. The UFO community seem to be fixed on the idea that there is a government conspiracy to cover UFO´s up. There has been much talk about Roswell and the plausible government report that they were testing crash dummies airdropping from high altitude has been rejected. In fact every time the government release a report on their UFO or alien investigations people refuse to believe it. None of the governments of the world have ever found any evidence of aliens visiting earth and if they did why would they cover something like that up? I´ve yet to hear a good reason for this. I also think the enthusiasts are giving the government an awful lot of credit if they really believe that they are capable of covering something like this up, if we really have been visited by aliens and the government knows about it then the information will undoubtedly come to light, the government are rubbish at cover ups and conspiracies. It also seems likely that if aliens visited and wanted us to know about them there wouldn´t be anything the government could do to stop it, they can´t even stop humans from exposing things and committing all sorts of crazy acts so how the hell are they going to effectively stop aliens with advanced knowledge?

While some believers have quite plausible stories the volume of reports is staggering and inevitably there are many deeply silly ideas about aliens. My personal favourites are cattle mutilations, abduction stories and the retarded idea that aliens built the pyramids. Why would an advanced race of beings (they would have to be advanced to even travel to earth) arrive here and then carve up cattle? Why would they abduct people and probe them and then put them back again? If they have been doing these things how have they managed to leave absolutely no evidence behind?

Cattle mutilations have been reported several times along with mutilations of sheep and horses. These can all more easily be explained by predator attack or in cases where the animals have been surgically carved by psychotic human attack. People commit atrocious acts all the time I find it far more plausible that a disturbed human cut up an animal than the idea that an alien travelled light years across the void in order to do it.

Abduction stories are great and largely a product of the latter half of this century, interestingly there are very few earlier accounts of alien abduction; they coincide quite neatly with our sudden fascination for science fiction. Mentally deranged or confused people and attention seekers tell stories of being picked up in an alien spacecraft and subjected to all kinds of probes and tests and then returned. No-one else ever sees them being taken or returning and they never have any physical evidence of their encounter that they coudn´t have caused themselves or that some other person couldn´t have visited upon them. The typical abduction story was developed early on and subsequently people have adhered to the same basic structure. Now even supposing there was some truth to it why would the aliens continually do the same procedure on multiple people over a period of years, wouldn´t they have found whatever it was they were looking for by now? Some of the accounts have hilarious details like being shown around the spaceship or exposed to a hybrid alien-human child, yeah I´m sure advanced aliens would want to find a way to breed with inferior creatures and given the fact most species on earth can´t cross breed what is the likelihood that we could breed with an alien? It reminds me of the whole Independence Day scenario where computer software is uploaded to defeat the alien mother ship, Apple and Microsoft aren´t even compatible on earth so I´m kind of doubting that one. Abduction stories always have the same elements and they seem to be similar to stories of demonic visitation and even out of body experiences which makes it far more likely there is something common to human brain chemistry which allows for a strange event and different people interpret it in different ways according to their personal beliefs.

The idea that aliens built the pyramids is especially annoying because it belittles our ancient civilisations; it is an arrogant modern view where people simply cannot believe that ancient cultures built those structures so it must have been aliens. There have also been attempts to link aliens with the lost city of Atlantis; none of these ideas have any supporting evidence whatsoever.

In reports of encounters the aliens are almost always humanoid, why would they be humanoid? Doesn´t that just betray a lack of imagination, I mean sci-fi shows and films make aliens humanoid because it is cheaper to realise on film, a human actor with some make-up can play an alien, there is no fundamental reason they would be humanoid in reality.

With UFO sightings believers often point out aerial manoeuvres which would be impossible for our aircraft to make but if you watch some of the footage you have to wonder why an alien ship is coming here just to zoom around in a cloud and then disappear again. How come all of the footage is blurry? If they regularly visit why has no one ever gotten a clean look at them or a convincing piece of evidence?

Flying saucers are also a pretty daft idea and it is amazing how many of these tapes of UFO´s feature a saucer shaped object even although it would be an incredibly inefficient shape for flying which would require massive amounts of energy to propel itself. It´s also not a very practical shape from the inside, even if you accept that perhaps aliens have technology which flaunts the laws of physics as we know them wouldn´t they build a nice practical cube rather than a saucer? It´s actually an extremely dated view of what an alien spacecraft might look like which has embedded itself in popular culture.

A few respected professionals have come out in support of alien theories of visitation and even abduction but it is worth pointing out that the most prominent ones have a clear vested interest in spreading the idea, they write and sell books on the subject and they get paid to appear on television shows talking nonsense about aliens. I have no problem at all in believing that they would trade their reputations for riches, people from all walks of life have been doing that for years.

Aliens do not visit earth, if they ever do I suspect we´ll know all about it and there has to be a decent chance they will exterminate us all for being arseholes. There is nothing wrong with speculating about aliens, it´s a fun topic but people who claim to be an authority on the subject, people who classify alien races and talk about the visits as though they are unassailable fact are annoying idiots. Of course there´s always the possibility that I´m an alien or a government stooge trying to throw them off the scent because their knowledge is so accurate.
 
I think it probably was a hot air balloon being attacked by coloured parrots.

The event has not been explained so like others I am free to make something up.

The eye witnesses were out on the town and needed a story for their wives to explain them getting home late.
The malfunction on the plane simply an excuse for overtime and not actually doing any work.


Why is it that the most extreme made up explanations will be hastely set aside by those who insist their make believe is the only make believe that is valid.

Let's take a vote..who thinks a hot air balloon being attacked by parrots is as reasonable as aliens if not more reasonable.

Oh that's right no one said aliens ( except one person in the video) and there should be no implication of aliens even though MR hints at that being the best explanation.

Tiresome.

Predictable.

Any questioning and MR pounces on his stereotype sceptic who refuses to accept the proposition without question.

Typical for a person who thinks brown paper bags are squirrels.

MR you are intelligent I suspect and I think this is a game you like to play to satisfy some desire to argue the inarguable.

I forgot it was a game and made the mistake of giving you and the event serious consideration.

But you just wanted the opportunity to cry sceptic.

Silly me..predictable you.

What's your game?

Attention seeking perhaps, I don't know the answer to that... anymore than I can answer why so many humans are clearly delusional and many more possibly liars.


This video may all be fiction.

I have yet to find anything taking it from fairy tale to a news item.

Now there's a belly full, chew it well and let it digest.

My feeding duties are complete.

Alex
 
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Yazata:

In MR's case, I think that he likes feeling that reality isn't all safely categorized in little boxes (even if they are scientific), that it still contains things that are amazing, unexpected and wondrous.
Presumably, believing in elves or fairies would work just as well. There's nothing special about his beliefs in UFOs and ghosts and the like.

As for me, I have mixed emotions. I think that many of the things that MR promotes aren't particularly credible.
MR has no clue about what constitutes good evidence for something and what does not. He'll believe just about anything he sees on youtube, for example.

One of the things I dislike about Sciforums is the way that it's populated by people who go on and on about "evidence", "reason" and "reality", about the science/pseudoscience distinction, and about how everyone needs to employ the "scientific method" -- while seemingly having no feeling at all for the deep and difficult questions that all of those topics raise.
Have you tried raising them?

Whenever I think about science, I'm confronted by an almost endless succession of philosophical questions: The atheism/theism discussions. The assumptions of physicalism, whether methodological or metaphysical. The nature of evidence and how evidence is used to confirm hypotheses. Understanding deductive inference. What is truth? What does it mean to explain something? Problems of scientific methodology. Are there limits on what humans can know? Is anything absolutely certain? What are necessity and possibility? Does every event have a cause? What is the place of purpose and free-will in a physical universe? What is 'consciousness'? What are phenomenal properties like 'red'? What is meaning and how do words acquire it? What kind of reality do abstract objects like numbers have and how do we know about them? Is our knowledge of the physical world based solely on sense-perception? Can qualitatively new kinds of phenomena 'emerge' unexpectedly from complex systems? What is 'life'? What different kinds of life might there potentially be? What does quantum mechanics tell us about the nature of physical reality? What is the relationship between scientific theory and the reality it models? How do scientific theories change as science progresses?
All interesting questions.

And on and on... The questions are never ending. If we think about even the most familiar aspects of our lives for more than a minute or two, we are suddenly at the frontiers of human knowledge. We are surrounded by the unknown at every moment. It's the intellectual air we breathe.
It's not enough for the likes of MR. He wants magic.
 
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LOL! So you're essentially saying the account is all made up?
LOL! Probably!

No..it is not necessary for an account to be given by first hand witnesses to be credible.
But you'll agree that it's important to verify first-hand (primary) sources, rather than simply accepting any old hearsay. Won't you?

This account has been documented by military and govt officials and vetted by consulting with the eyewitnesses themselves.
Where are the documents? Why did you not post them, rather than your anecdotal third-hand video?

It is obviously a craft of some sort operated by intelligent beings.
What is obviously a craft? The unverifed object that unverified people say they saw (perhaps) and which other unknown people say is documented (perhaps) in unseen documents that we know about only by hearsay?

It is also a craft beyond anything we currently have.
Where is the evidence that supports this claim?

So you're saying this UFO didn't happen because there were no photos taken of it?
What? No photos? What a shame.

What physical evidence is there?
 
LOL! That says it all. You could have saved yourself a buttload of wandering speculations and red herrings in the first post if you had just admitted that to begin with. Don't even pretend you're being objective here. "The video proves nothing!" Ta da! Case closed!
He's right. Your anecdotal youtube clip proves nothing.

Got anything better?
 
Wow! I can really tell I've rattled the gates when the debunkers gather round and start their "it's all fake" rallying chant. Oh and ofcourse there's paddoboy's devastating pics of lenticular clouds too. lol! It's really all they've got in the face of compelling cases like the one I cited. And so now we know the game here---ask for evidence, and when the evidence is given, claim it is all faked and made up by some sinister cabal of UFO researchers. Funny how even seasoned skeptics admit the Tehran incident actually happened. I guess they should've done their homework.:rolleyes:
 
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