Bells
Staff member
Nice edit Sam. Realised you had gone just too far?
Why does evolution select against atheists?
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Nice edit Sam. Realised you had gone just too far?
In my experience, the less religious people are the more trustworthy & trusting, generous, tolerant, cooperative, reliable & helping they are & the less likely they are to do me wrong.
Bells
Staff member
So to believe in God, one must have a religious affiliation or belong to a religion? Otherwise it does not count?
Theism is to believe in God(s).
the⋅ism /ˈθiɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism ).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism ).
–noun
1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism ).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism ).
No, in my experience, a lot of Americans call themselves religious but have very little interest in religion beyond abortion and gay marriages.
All 5 of my Christian siblings together don't have 1% of the compassion I have. It is actually quite disgusting.
Ahhh Now I see. Nothing we say of religious Americans counts.
Not at all. I am sure there are religious people in America. They just have a strange attitude towards God. Seems to me religion in America is like an iPod. Every six months, there is a new design.
Just remembered, it was a Pew survey
That seems about right.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/743/united-states-religion
Just remembered, it was a Pew survey
That seems about right.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/743/united-states-religion
Bells
Staff member
So they can only be considered religious if they fit into what you would consider religious?
Lets just say that I find American religion as convincing as iceaura's religious atheism.
You can continue to use the US as an example of a religious state. But I'd say they are more of a media religious state. They derive their convictions from what the mass media dictates to them. I'm pretty sure that if they had an atheist on television everyday, pretty soon Americans would "discover" that they are atheists.
Bells
Staff member
Which says nothing about whether they are theists or atheists. Surveys have shown that 9 out of 10 adults in America believe in God, which would make 91% of Americans as being theists.
Again, if people wish to change their religion, so what? They are free to do so? Or do you advocate forcing people to stay in one religion because that is what it means to be truly 'religious'?
Again, does one have to belong to a religious organisation to be considered a theist in your opinion? Are you going to narrow that further to suit your own personal beliefs and have it so that people who convert to other religions are no longer considered theists?
Bells
Staff member
As opposed to theists who derive their convictions from what they are told in their respective religious texts or what their religious leaders dictates to them?
What makes you more of a theist or more religious than one of the 91% of the American people who do believe in God?
Conversations on religion with Americans have had a surreal quality for me. Perhaps I should compare them with other westerners? I am used to the Eastern mindset of religion and Asian and Arab ideas of religion make more sense to me than western ones. :shrug:
I will admit to bias in this regard.
It's the price we gotta pay for all the games we gotta play ....
Don't forget that the president who lied us into Iraq was a born-again Christian. Frankly, the world would be better off if he'd just stayed a hapless drunk.
It's not like there are no movies about the war victims. And if, say, De Palma's Redacted is too microcosmic for you, I confess I'm having a hard time envisioning how to devise a cinematic representation of a half-million children. That's a tricky presentation, you know.
Maybe you have some ideas?
The fact is, S.A.M., that there are plenty of people—theist and atheist alike—who think these wars are worth the price. And there are also plenty of people—theist and atheist alike—who think these wars are absurd. Afghanistan, in particular, is a sticky mess: by the traditions of warfare in history, the United States had every right to go into Afghanistan if we had to. There are plenty who recognize this, but are not by any means oblivious to the fact that from the outset, the political leaders absolutely screwed the pooch. Patriots and jingoists, atheist and theist alike, can say all the nice things about the troops they want, but there is no question the Bush administration fucked that one up from the start. And there's plenty of question still whether or not Obama can do any better.
I was considering a broader range than just the boots on the ground, but we can work with that, too.
The Population Research Bureau, drawing from Department of Defense statistics, drew the following general profile for the religious preferences of American military personnel in 2001:
Even if we go so far as to presume that the entire "Other/Unknown/Refused" category is atheistic, and include Buddhists as atheists, that's 33.5%.
Secular states, maybe. But these are mostly religious people doing the shooting.
Additionally, George W. Bush—as I noted—is a born-again Christian. Donald Rumsfeld is a Christian, listed in various places as "Protestant" and "Presbyterian". Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who delivered a platter of toxic lies to the United Nations, is an Episcopalian.
Shall we start investigating every journalist and pundit who has covered the war? Maybe survey voters, and poll protesters?
____________________
Notes:
Segal, David R. and Mady Wechsler Segal. "America's Military Population". Population Bulletin, v. 59, n. 4. Population Reference Bureau. December, 2004. PRB.org. Accessed May 10, 2009. http://www.prb.org/Source/ACF1396.pdf
S.A.M. said:
Don't forget that the president who lied us into Iraq was a born-again Christian. Frankly, the world would be better off if he'd just stayed a hapless drunk.
It's not like there are no movies about the war victims. And if, say, De Palma's Redacted is too microcosmic for you, I confess I'm having a hard time envisioning how to devise a cinematic representation of a half-million children. That's a tricky presentation, you know.
Maybe you have some ideas?
The fact is, S.A.M., that there are plenty of people—theist and atheist alike—who think these wars are worth the price. And there are also plenty of people—theist and atheist alike—who think these wars are absurd. Afghanistan, in particular, is a sticky mess: by the traditions of warfare in history, the United States had every right to go into Afghanistan if we had to. There are plenty who recognize this, but are not by any means oblivious to the fact that from the outset, the political leaders absolutely screwed the pooch. Patriots and jingoists, atheist and theist alike, can say all the nice things about the troops they want, but there is no question the Bush administration fucked that one up from the start. And there's plenty of question still whether or not Obama can do any better.
I was considering a broader range than just the boots on the ground, but we can work with that, too.
The Population Research Bureau, drawing from Department of Defense statistics, drew the following general profile for the religious preferences of American military personnel in 2001:
Protestant: 35%
Catholic/Orthodox: 22%
Other Christian: 11%
Atheist: 21%
Jewish: <0.5%
Muslim: <0.5%
Buddhist/Hindu: <0.5%
Other/Unknown/Refused: 11%
(Segal and Wechsler Segal, 25)
Catholic/Orthodox: 22%
Other Christian: 11%
Atheist: 21%
Jewish: <0.5%
Muslim: <0.5%
Buddhist/Hindu: <0.5%
Other/Unknown/Refused: 11%
(Segal and Wechsler Segal, 25)
Even if we go so far as to presume that the entire "Other/Unknown/Refused" category is atheistic, and include Buddhists as atheists, that's 33.5%.
Secular states, maybe. But these are mostly religious people doing the shooting.
Additionally, George W. Bush—as I noted—is a born-again Christian. Donald Rumsfeld is a Christian, listed in various places as "Protestant" and "Presbyterian". Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who delivered a platter of toxic lies to the United Nations, is an Episcopalian.
Shall we start investigating every journalist and pundit who has covered the war? Maybe survey voters, and poll protesters?
____________________
Notes:
Segal, David R. and Mady Wechsler Segal. "America's Military Population". Population Bulletin, v. 59, n. 4. Population Reference Bureau. December, 2004. PRB.org. Accessed May 10, 2009. http://www.prb.org/Source/ACF1396.pdf
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THESE days????????
THESE days????????
According to the locals: Navajo. Ojibwe. Paraja. The local tribe - I think it was Inuit - that my brother lived with in Alaska. A few others here and there in recovery - according to some of them - from the effects of theistic missionary establishments in the 1800s.SAM said:
But the close association of theistic religion and social organization by family is noted - the phenomenon of routine marriage of cousins, for example, seems to be a feature of strongly theistic people.
And the other correlations of strong family organization - poverty, high child mortality, low educational standards, etc - are also perforce associated with theism. These are merely correlations, of course - all of them.