Why does evolution select against atheists?

It is also a society that is rife in abusing children and women, denying them the rights that as human beings, is their very own. Yes, children are exploited everywhere. But much less so in secular societies than in theist societies and by theist people in said societies.
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I would disagree here. I have met women and children on both sides and the women and children definitely enjoy a greater sense of security there. e.g. you can leave your child to play in the center of the mall while you shop without any fear. Children leave the house and roam freely in the neighborhood, because neighbors will look out for them.

The sense of fear I see in the US for example in women and children, is negligible there.
 
S.A.M. said:
I would disagree here. I have met women and children on both sides and the women and children definitely enjoy a greater sense of security there. e.g. you can leave your child to play in the center of the mall while you shop without any fear. Children leave the house and roam freely in the neighborhood, because neighbors will look out for them.

The sense of fear I see in the US for example in women and children, is negligible there.
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Security, but no freedom to do as they please or talk to who they please.

And why would you not want to shop with your children? You're saying that children are supervised in shopping centre play centres like they have in the US and in countries like Australia? My, how interesting.

Children in the US and Australia also play and roam the streets and know that the neighbours will look out for them. In Australia, for example, many many houses have stickers on their front mailboxes telling children and their families that if the child were ever in trouble or attacked, that that particular house is a safe haven. Most houses seem to have those stickers these days and even those without stickers will render a child aid if the child requires it.
 
Thats the difference, in Saudi Arabia, you need neither a supervisor nor the stickers. The people are relaxed and friendly, its easy to form bonds with them. They believe strongly in cherishing family and children and will help out without hesitation. In the US, if you tried to help a strange child, they'd probably call 911.

Its a completely different atmosphere.
 
S.A.M. said:
Thats the difference, in Saudi Arabia, you need neither a supervisor nor the stickers. The people are relaxed and friendly, its easy to form bonds with them. They believe strongly in cherishing family and children and will help out without hesitation. In the US, if you tried to help a strange child, they'd probably call 911.

Its a completely different atmosphere.
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You do realise that the majority of people in the US believe in God, don't you?
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Claiming false statements about an opposite view which actually fit 1's own view do not make a good argument. It does make crappy scientific thinking.
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Indeed.

I am still astounded by what Sam has claimed thus far in this thread. Apparently as an atheist, I am not supposed to love and care for my children, family, friends and community and society. Because my children have been brought up by atheists, they will apparently never have any form of support from their parents, family, friends or community. The list goes on and on..

Truly astounding the falsehoods portrayed in this thread. I must admit, I am very disappointed.
 
Not at all. You can do as you please. But if society were made up predominantly of atheists, social institutions would collapse as atheism undermines these institutions. Individuals are free to do as they please, but society is built by a sense of community. Atheism per se says nothing about community, family or society and a social rise in atheism in ANY society [even Jeddah and Mumbai] is inevitably accompanied by a rise in smaller families, higher divorce rates, single parents, latchkey kids and greater individual isolation.
 
Bells said:
Indeed.

I am still astounded by what Sam has claimed thus far in this thread. Apparently as an atheist, I am not supposed to love and care for my children, family, friends and community and society. Because my children have been brought up by atheists, they will apparently never have any form of support from their parents, family, friends or community. The list goes on and on..

Truly astounding the falsehoods portrayed in this thread. I must admit, I am very disappointed.
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You haven't noticed this before? :shrug:
 
S.A.M. said:
I've seen on this forum that atheists care primarily only about themselves.

They are willing to stand aside and destroy all societies that they do not agree with. Its evident in the way they treat anyone they disagree with. Double standards all around..
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I HAVE SEEN that theists care primarily only about themselves.

They are willing to stand aside & destroy all that they do not agree with. Its evident in the way they treat anyone they disagree with. Double standards all around.
 
S.A.M. said:
Do they?

http://www.religiondispatches.org/a...ane:_aris_survey_gets_‘religion’,_misses_boat
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You tell me..

The latest Newsweek poll found 91 percent of American adults say they believe in God and nearly half rejects the scientific theory of evolution.

http://www.christianpost.com/Society/Polls_reports/2007/04/poll-9-of-10-americans-believe-in-god-nearly-half-rejects-evolution-02/index.html
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according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. Nine in 10 (91 percent) of American adults say they believe in God and almost as many (87 percent) say they identify with a specific religion. Christians far outnumber members of any other faith in the country, with 82 percent of the poll’s respondents identifying themselves as such.

http://digg.com/politics/NEWSWEEK_91_of_Americans_believe_in_God_only_3_atheist
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S.A.M. said:
Not at all. You can do as you please. But if society were made up predominantly of atheists, social institutions would collapse as atheism undermines these institutions. Individuals are free to do as they please, but society is built by a sense of community. Atheism per se says nothing about community, family or society and a social rise in atheism in ANY society [even Jeddah and Mumbai] is inevitably accompanied by a rise in smaller families, higher divorce rates, single parents, latchkey kids and greater individual isolation.
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IF society were made up predominantly of atheists, most social institutions definitely would NOT collapse.
Atheism SHOULD say nothing about community, family or society. Atheism isn't about those things. It's entirely unrelated.
Why do you assume high divorce rates are bad??? Why do you assume small families are bad???
Part of the reasons people turn to religion, the main reason for some, is to have or feel they have a sense of community, unable to realize religion doesn't have to be necessary for that.

It is theism that is the cause and/or excuse/"rationale" for most wrongs humans do to each other.
It is the desperate ignorant theist who must blame atheists rather than take off the blindfold & stare into the mirror.
 
SAM said:
They are jumping the border to abandon a strongly theistic society, one with all the benefits you ascribe to theistic belief.
”
Disagree, they are moving because secularism makes the society a weak one where people are unwilling to extend themselves, thus opening it up for immigrants. Its a vacuum that is created in every society that becomes secular.
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How is that a disagreement? And how does weakness and other debits of a secular society induce such immigration?

They are leaving - are desperately trying to leave, and succeeding at large personal cost - the very type of society you praise, in order to obtain the lowest and least desirable status in the type of society you despise. This is happening all over the world.

The reverse is not happening.
SAM said:
Thats the difference, in Saudi Arabia, you need neither a supervisor nor the stickers. The people are relaxed and friendly, its easy to form bonds with them. They believe strongly in cherishing family and children and will help out without hesitation. In the US, if you tried to help a strange child, they'd probably call 911.

Its a completely different atmosphere.
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This is so, and very interesting. One of the interesting things about it is how recent it is, in the US - and how little associated with actual dangers. In my own childhood, we children roamed the towns and countryside freely and without direct parental supervision. It's not that we were so much safer then, but that there was no atmosphere of paranoid fear.

By report, women and children in the northern border towns of Mexico have the freedom of the community as I did in the northern US - but not because these strongly theistic communities are safe for them. Those are some of the most dangerous communities on earth for women and children. So theism and community, fear and safety, are complicated issues.

By repute of the time, one of the safest communities in the world for women and children was Wallachia under the rule of Vlad the Impaler, known to us as Dracula. And he was a strongly theistic and morally rigorous Prince, so his governance fits your pattern - is that what you had in mind, for the advantages of theistic society?

btw:
SAM said:
But if society were made up predominantly of atheists, social institutions would collapse as atheism undermines these institutions. Individuals are free to do as they please, but society is built by a sense of community.
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Even within strongly religious societies such as the US we have a few examples of social institutions long made up predominantly of atheists - the most notable of these are the upper tier universities. They appear to have a sense of community and be able to build it in newcomers, to be durable and resilient, to produce value for the larger community and world, and so forth. They seem to be among the few institutions in the US that compare with the non-monetary and spiritually based social structures of atheistic societies such as the non-agricultural Reds in the Americas.
 
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S.A.M. said:
Not at all. You can do as you please.
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Is this the part where I am meant to bow down to the rising sun and say "thank you"?

But if society were made up predominantly of atheists, social institutions would collapse as atheism undermines these institutions.
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Bullshit.

What social institution do you think would collapse? What institutions does atheism undermine? You mean allowing people the freedom to believe as they wish is bad? Must everyone believe as they are told? Is that the kind of institution you are into? The flock who must be led and spoon fed?


Individuals are free to do as they please, but society is built by a sense of community.
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Which has nothing to do with one's religious beliefs or lack of.

Atheism per se says nothing about community, family or society and a social rise in atheism in ANY society [even Jeddah and Mumbai] is inevitably accompanied by a rise in smaller families, higher divorce rates, single parents, latchkey kids and greater individual isolation.
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A claim you have repeated several times. But have yet to prove.

Smaller families. Yes, forgive me for having only two children. I guess if I were a theist, I'd be popping them out every 10 months, right?

The ridiculous thing about your argument is that you are single by choice and have no children, by choice. And yet, here you are accusing atheists of being hell bent on destroying society because we have fewer children and "smaller families"? Are you kidding me? Divorce rates.. Hah!

The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians — exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce


27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced


21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced


27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced

The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Maryland) have the lowest divorce rates, averaging just 3.5/1000 people.

Barna isn't the only group to arrive at these numbers. Other researchers have also found that conservative Protestants get divorced more often than other groups, even more often than "mainline" Protestants. The fact that atheists and agnostics divorce less often than other religious groups was, however, surprising to many. Some have simply refused to believe it.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm
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You were saying?

Biased sources. I live in the US and believe me, they are not religious. I've lived among religious people all my life and especially in Saudi Arabia. I doubt most Americans have any idea what they think God is.
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I'm sorry, what? You don't think Americans believe in God because how they believe does not fit into the little box you have in your mind about how one is meant to believe?

Biased sources? How was the survey biased? So you have met and spoken to every American adult about whether they believe in God? Or should we just take your word for it because only you know how one should believe in God?

Who are you to tell Americans about how they should believe in God?
 
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