Why do we need so many religions
- Thread starter arauca
- Start date
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Its about the individual. Being Catholic, or being Muslim in no way gets you into Heaven. Its not what you believe, but what is and has always been.
Yahweh - Creator
----------------
Michael Gabriella Lucifer - Original creations, children of God (as we all are), and supreme Archangels.
Jesus Christ - Savior of the people
Urial Rapheal Azrael - Archangels
Angels
Humans
Beast
Plants
Souls
Life and Death
Thats all you need to know, everything else, all religions, including those of Egypt, Rome, and Greece and others with a race of Gods tell of a story that is relevant to all civilization. Some of it, such as Set, Egyptian God of war being a evil God is disinformation created as propaganda to control people of the time. Now, instead of God's we are controlled by things such as movie stars, and hip-hop artist. Some gods are made up, based on nothing more than a fictional story, others are Angels living as people for the purpose of ensuring God's will.
Jesus was Jew, and a Buddhist who had nothing to do with creation of the church of christ.
People often ask what is God's will, and I say use common sense.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
To answer your question different religions were created for different civilizations, all based on the same idea. Life, death, and the Creator. Then for some you have multiple God's, but none of them as great as the creator chief God such as Ra, the Egyptian sun God. Lesser god's are not god's at all, they do not create.
It is hard for me to guess what you are trying to say.
Zoroaster said as soon as priest become involved the whole thing will get screwed up and so it is ( pardon in misquoting )
Would you all theist on this forum agree there is one God the Creator, If we agree . There is no problem with Buddha or Confucius, Jesus and others Philosophy .
what does religion mean to you,
Religion per see does not mean much
////////////////////////////////
arauca? Does it mean that you believe in God? And what does that encompass? Are you a thiest
I believe in a Creator of life which I call God
////////////////////////
because you think it is the right thing to do?
Yes I have to respect my Creator , same as you and I should honor our parents
//////////////////////////////////////////
Or are you a thiest because you are afraid of hell?
At this point I don't think about hell nor I know what is hell
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And if you are a thiest, what is your belief in God based on?
That was answered before
??????????????????????????????????????????
Similarly, if you are not a thiest, what is the basis of that belief?
You are a sophisticated person that believes random chemicals under special condition assembled them self and whapo life started
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
\Is it the behaviour of other people? Is it because you disagree with an ideology? Is it because you think there cannot be a God or gods? Why do you think so?
My ideology is love thy neighbor as myself ,because he or she is a creation of the same God that created me.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
So why do we need so many religions? Because they force us to think and recognise that there is more than one opinion on the subject out there.[/QUOTE]
In essence we don't need religion . we just have to respect our Creator
????????????????????????????????????
Religion per see does not mean much
////////////////////////////////
arauca? Does it mean that you believe in God? And what does that encompass? Are you a thiest
I believe in a Creator of life which I call God
////////////////////////
because you think it is the right thing to do?
Yes I have to respect my Creator , same as you and I should honor our parents
//////////////////////////////////////////
Or are you a thiest because you are afraid of hell?
At this point I don't think about hell nor I know what is hell
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And if you are a thiest, what is your belief in God based on?
That was answered before
??????????????????????????????????????????
Similarly, if you are not a thiest, what is the basis of that belief?
You are a sophisticated person that believes random chemicals under special condition assembled them self and whapo life started
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
\Is it the behaviour of other people? Is it because you disagree with an ideology? Is it because you think there cannot be a God or gods? Why do you think so?
My ideology is love thy neighbor as myself ,because he or she is a creation of the same God that created me.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
So why do we need so many religions? Because they force us to think and recognise that there is more than one opinion on the subject out there.[/QUOTE]
In essence we don't need religion . we just have to respect our Creator
????????????????????????????????????
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The point is you seem to think all theists are the same because they agree on one issue. You will find they are very different groups that disagree on many issues. They may be pointless issues to you, but not them, and certainly no less pointless than anything else, or even a belief in god.
Many atheists probably have more in common with theists than the theistic groups do with each other, so I guess you should be joining up with them and abandoning religion.
Mind Over Matter
Registered Senior Member
Hi Arauca,
I don't know if you are some kinda atheist that was looking for someone to convince him about believing in God. Perhaps it would help a lot if you have a Catholic or Christian background becuase I dont really need to start from the beggining. From Atheist to Christian (eliminating all other religions) , From Christian to Catholic christian (eliminating all other christian forms of belief).
I wanna share to you about how I found the Church (or at least what made me stay here).
Why the Catholic Church is the One True Church of God
"Why the Catholic Church is the One True Church of God" will be divided into 4 parts. I recommend reading all 4 (completely), because all parts complete each other since they are all strongly related.
• 1- The Authority of the Catholic church
• 2- The Catholic church and her unbroken apostolic succession
• 3- Origins of the Bible and its interpretation
• 4- Analyzing other churches
In the present day, there are over 38,000 “Christian” churches in USA alone. Every week, 5 Christian churches are born. All and every one of them claim to be the one true church.
But can all 38,000 hold the truth? Or the fullness of truth? There can only be ONE truth, ONE church. Other religions are more or less false to the extent to which they differ from the "one true faith". Can anyone start a church, just as so many have done, and call his or her new church the church founded by Jesus Christ? With What authority do people do this? They don’t have authority
Why is the Catholic Church the One True Church of God?
Let us see why..
------------------------------------------------------PART 1------------------------------------
-------The Authority of the Catholic Church------
The Authority of the Catholic Church------
Key questions for non-catholic Christians.
Where do you obtain your truth from? Where can you get the answers that concern your Christian beliefs? Where can you get the fullness of truth? What authoritative source can you go to, to get the truth but also, the fullness of the truth? What makes that source authoritative?
Many would say that the bible is the source where one can obtain the truth. And you can indeed obtain it from the bible. However…
Let's not ignore that 38,000 Christian churches all go to the bible. And all come out with their “Truth”.
The question of what authoritative source to follow is the initial question every Christian needs to answer, because If you don’t use the correct source of authority, you may not get the fullness of the truth that Christ wants you to have to live your spiritual life to the fullest.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Christ would have established a way for us to know with absolute certainty exactly what he taught 2000 years ago? Wouldn't it be wonderful in the event of a disagreement in our faith that we have a way to decisively resolve a dispute?
He Did
Let us see how Jesus established his church.
During the times Jesus walked on the earth, to who would you go to in order to get the fullness of the truth?
Jesus!
We know Jesus rose from the dead. We know that he ascended into heaven. And that he did many miracles.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6)
Jesus the ultimate source of authority:
But there's one problem…
Unfortunately for us, we can't go to Jesus Physically to ask him about matters of faith anymore. He died and Resurrected, afterwards he ascended into heaven. So after Jesus ascended, to who could a person go to in order to obtain the truth?
The question to ask is did Jesus established a way for others to speak for him in matters of defining the faith? Who did Christ select to teach everything he wanted humanity to know about himself and salvation?
The apostles:
Jesus chose 12 apostles and he taught them everything he knew so they could teach humanity the truth. This is called divine revelation. The deposit of Faith.
And toward the end he gave the apostles the authority to speak on his behalf. Let us check some parts of the scripture that lets us know how Jesus gave them authority.
Matthew 10:1
"Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.“
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3894742754_6cd957df8a.jpg
John 20:23
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Jesus said to the apostles:
Matthew 18:18
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
In the great comission, Jesus gave the apostles the authority to go and teach what he had taught them to the gentiles.
Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
“….As the Father has sent me, I am sending you…” John 20:23
So basically,
Just as the Father sent the Son (And they are One), Jesus sent his apostles giving them authority.
As you can see he gave the apostles authority collectively. However, he gave the leadership to one of them.
Peter
There is ample evidence in the New Testament that Peter was first in authority among the apostles. Whenever they were named, Peter headed the list (Matt. 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13)
Sometimes the apostles were referred to as "Peter and those who were with him" (Luke 9:32). Peter was the one who generally spoke for the apostles (Matt. 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69), and he figured in many of the most dramatic scenes (Matt. 14:28-32, Matt. 17:24-27, Mark 10:23-28).
On Pentecost it was Peter who first preached to the crowds (Acts 2:14-40), and he worked the first healing in the Church age (Acts 3:6-7).
It is Peter’s faith that will strengthen his brethren (Luke 22:32) and Peter is given Christ’s flock to shepherd (John 21:17)
An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34). He headed the meeting that elected Matthias to replace Judas (Acts 1:13-26), and he received the first converts (Acts 2:41).
Immediately before his denials were predicted, Peter was told, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again [after the denials], strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32). It was Peter who Christ prayed would have faith that would not fail and that would be a guide for the others; and his prayer, being perfectly efficacious, was sure to be fulfilled.
Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.
Peter alone was promised something else also: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 16:19). In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. A walled city might have one great gate; and that gate had one great lock, worked by one great key. To be given the key to the city—an honor that exists even today, though its import is lost—meant to be given free access to and authority over the city. The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18).
When he first saw Simon, "Jesus looked at him, and said, ‘So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter)’" (John 1:42). The word Cephas is merely the transliteration of the Aramaic Kepha into Greek. Later, after Peter and the other disciples had been with Christ for some time, they went to Caesarea Philippi, where Peter made his profession of faith: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16:16). Jesus told him that this truth was specially revealed to him, and then he solemnly reiterated: "And I tell you, you are Peter" (Matt. 16:18). To this was added the promise that the Church would be founded, in some way, on Peter (Matt. 16:18).
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
(Matt. 16:18).
Key point:
How did the early church functioned?
It functioned with a leader.
All apostles were given the authority by Jesus, but one of them was given the lead (Peter).
What promise did Jesus gave to the apostles so they would be protected to only speak the truth?
That they would be guided by the holy spirit to teach the truth.
John 14:26. “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
John 16:13 “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”
So then we can be sure that the apostles had the authority to teach and to baptize etc
And we can be sure that they taught the truth, and the truth only.
But there's one problem….
The apostles were human…. They were physically going to die. So who could a person go to in order to obtain the truth after the apostles died? What happened after the apostles were gone? To whom did the authority to teach pass? Was it open to anyone who knew Scripture or had a teaching credential or a theology degree? How were later Christians to determine who was teaching the fullness of the truth?
The question is….
Did Christ established a way for their authority to be transferred to others? Let's see what the bible tell us.
Originally there were 12 apostles. When Jesus ascended into heaven, there were 11 of them. Judas was missing. So what did the apostles do before they went to teach and baptize to make disciples of all nations? What was their first activity as a collective group?
They selected a successor for Judas. Acts 1:20
Peter said “Let someone else take his office”. The word “office” signifies that Judasʹ position was an ongoing position rather than a one time position.
Acts 1:23-26
"So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles."
Acts 6
Refers to the apostles as the “Twelve”, indicating that indeed Matthias was considered one of the 12, therefore succeding Judas.
Scripture indicates that the apostles endowed bishops and elders with their special authority to teach. We see the earliest evidence of the apostles conferring authority in the account of the appointing of Judas’s replacement.
After Matthias had been chosen, the apostles went on to appoint others:
"And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed" (Acts 14:23).
In Acts 14:23
Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.
The blessed apostles gave the Authority to other entrusted men to teach what Jesus taught.
Jesus established a church in which apostolic authority is passed on.
All of those appointed by the apostles to be Bishops (such as Titus or Timothy), Priests (also known as "presbyters" or "elders" 1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15) and Deacons (Acts 6:1–6) had to receive “The Laying On of Hands”. This was made so that the person ordained receives the Holy Spirit and the authority to teach what Jesus taught, since the Holy Spirit guides any into the truth.
The apostles received the Holy Spirit in Pentecost (Acts 2)
And since the Holy Spirit guides one to teach the truth, we can be sure that they taught the truth.
In scripture we find that Paul also is given the Holy Spirit trough the Laying On of Hands.
So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Acts 9:17)
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:2-3)
Timothy also received the Holy Spirit through the hands of Paul.
“For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.”
2 Tim. 1:6
Paul’s writings provide early evidence that at least some of those appointed by the apostles had authority to go on and appoint still others. To Timothy he wrote, "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). And to Titus, "This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you" (Ti. 1:5).
Paul received apostolic authority, Timothy and Titus received it as well. And for sure all of those appointed by Titus and Timothy got Apostolic authority.
In his first letter to Timothy, a bishop—in which Paul calls the Church "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)—he instructs him:
"Till I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you. Practice these duties, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers" (1 Tim. 4:13–16)
The apostles did “The Laying On of Hands” as well on those who were ordained.
Acts 6:2-6 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.
So we find in scripture that Jesus established a church (and gave it Authority) for us to go to it and get the truth. His church had a leader (Peter being the first), his church had successors (Acts 1) and ordained others and gave them the Holy Spirit trough the “Laying On of Hands” (Acts 6) to help spreading the gospel. Those as well did it on others and so on.
Key:
If a church doesn't use a laying on of hands and if the line of authority for ordination doesn't come directly from the apostles it can't be the true Church.
The same is found in the Old Testament. For example when Moses Laid his hands on Joshua.
Numbers 27:18-23
So the LORD said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership, and lay your hand on him. Have him stand before Eleazar the priest and the entire assembly and commission him in their presence. Give him some of your authority so the whole Israelite community will obey him. He is to stand before Eleazar the priest, who will obtain decisions for him by inquiring of the Urim before the LORD. At his command he and the entire community of the Israelites will go out, and at his command they will come in.”
Moses did as the LORD commanded him. He took Joshua and had him stand before Eleazar the priest and the whole assembly. Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the LORD instructed through Moses.
Deuteronomy 34:9
"Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses."
Some people in the present day will come to you claiming that they have the Holy spirit. But this should be put in doubt, if they didn't receive the Holy Spirit trough the laying on of hands. It is a gift that many would like to have indeed….
Acts 8:18-24
When Simon [the Sorcerer] saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
When the apostles went and preached the good news was there any bible?
Of course not. Then how did they preached the good news? They did it Orally.
There was no new testament written for several years after Christ ascended into heaven. There was no bible.
And the apostles went out and verbally proclaimed the deposit of faith. And that spoken word of God is called oral or apostolic tradition.
Since this method was used to teach the truth, this transmission of the Word of God in the verbal form was Authoritative.
After the church began to grow because of the spread of oral tradition, the bible tells us that there were some heresies out there. So how did the early church deal with heresy?
The church Jesus established had the authority to define matters of faith. Since the leaders of the church Jesus established have the Holy Spirit, when defining matters of faith they will be accurate and teach nothing else but the truth. In Acts 15 we see that there are some heresies out there teaching that “One cannot be saved unless circumcised”. So what does the church do? They get together and deal with this issue. Let us read Acts 15 The Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:1-4:
Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Acts 15:5-11
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Acts 15:12-18
The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things—
things known from long ago.’
Acts 15:19-21:
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
So as u can see the leaders of the visible church got together to define matters of faith. Even to this day this is possible in the Catholic Church. In Acts 15 not only the apostles got together, but the whole church leaders.
After that they sent a letter to Gentile believers
Acts 15:22
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers.
Acts 15:23-29
With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
From this we can conclude that the church had (and still has) Authority. In Acts 15 the church clearly defines matters of faith with her authority, which is given by the Lord Jesus himself.
Many years later the church got together under the authority of Pope Damasus I (Council of Rome 382) and formally canonized the bible. It was the Authoritative church, using Authoritative tradition, that gave us the Authoritative bible.
The church leaders have the Holy Spirit passed on through the Laying of hands, they have the protection and guidance of the holy spirit to teach the truth, they have apostolic succession and they have authoritative sources.
The Authoritative church
uses the Authoritative
1- Oral or Apostolic tradition
and the Authoritative
2- Bible
And those are the sources of authority that the Catholic church uses and has been using these sources of authority from then on, and as a result of that the Catholic church has never changed a core belief in the 2000 years of history using these sources of authority.
From all of this we can conclude that the church was (and still is) visible
Apparently MOST Protestants don’t realize the very paradox that they are arguing against. On one hand, they reject any single visible church with as holding all authority, but on the other, they themselves site the early Church (i.e. Ephesian elders), formed through apostolic succession, as an authoritative body. According to them, apostolic succession seems to count only during the time that the apostles walked on earth, and after that, no church had the keys???
Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him (or his teachings). His Church will survive until his return.
We as Catholics don't believe that people can just assume for themselves the right of ecclesiastic ordination (unlike protestants). We believe this happens trough the passing on…through apostolic succession. We believe it happens through being sent out. You are not just called (to priesthood), you are also sent. And this happens through a valid authority. There are no writings in the bible that suggest that one can by himself assume ecclesiastic ordination.
No one can give himself the mandate and the mission to proclaim the gospel. The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority but by virtue of Christ’s authority; not as a member of the community but speaking to it in the name of Christ. No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ.
In the bible it works this way:
Jesus was sent by the father, Jesus sent the apostles, the apostles sent Paul, Paul sent Timothy, Paul commanded Timothy to appoint others…and so on. And the early church affirms the right same thing. That was one of the means that the early church had to know who had the right firm authority and who did not.
In the Catholic church, all priests are ordained by somebody, who was ordained by somebody, who was ordained by somebody (and so on) who was ordained by an apostle.
This is true Authority. This is Apostolic Succession. This is why the Catholic Church does indeed have the Holy Spirit guiding her.
This is the Divine Authority the Catholic Church has.
"From what has been said, then, it seems clear to me that the true Church, that which is really ancient, is one. . . . We say, therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin, and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone" (Stromata 7:17: 107:3-5 [A.D. 207]).
-Clement of Alexandria
"I believe in God Almighty, and in his only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit, and in the resurrection of the body, [and] the holy Catholic Church" (Der-Balyzeh papyrus [A.D. 200-250]).
Ancient Egyptian Creed
I don't know if you are some kinda atheist that was looking for someone to convince him about believing in God. Perhaps it would help a lot if you have a Catholic or Christian background becuase I dont really need to start from the beggining. From Atheist to Christian (eliminating all other religions) , From Christian to Catholic christian (eliminating all other christian forms of belief).
I wanna share to you about how I found the Church (or at least what made me stay here).
Why the Catholic Church is the One True Church of God
"Why the Catholic Church is the One True Church of God" will be divided into 4 parts. I recommend reading all 4 (completely), because all parts complete each other since they are all strongly related.
• 1- The Authority of the Catholic church
• 2- The Catholic church and her unbroken apostolic succession
• 3- Origins of the Bible and its interpretation
• 4- Analyzing other churches
In the present day, there are over 38,000 “Christian” churches in USA alone. Every week, 5 Christian churches are born. All and every one of them claim to be the one true church.
But can all 38,000 hold the truth? Or the fullness of truth? There can only be ONE truth, ONE church. Other religions are more or less false to the extent to which they differ from the "one true faith". Can anyone start a church, just as so many have done, and call his or her new church the church founded by Jesus Christ? With What authority do people do this? They don’t have authority
Why is the Catholic Church the One True Church of God?
Let us see why..
------------------------------------------------------PART 1------------------------------------
-------The Authority of the Catholic Church------
The Authority of the Catholic Church------
Key questions for non-catholic Christians.
Where do you obtain your truth from? Where can you get the answers that concern your Christian beliefs? Where can you get the fullness of truth? What authoritative source can you go to, to get the truth but also, the fullness of the truth? What makes that source authoritative?
Many would say that the bible is the source where one can obtain the truth. And you can indeed obtain it from the bible. However…
Let's not ignore that 38,000 Christian churches all go to the bible. And all come out with their “Truth”.
The question of what authoritative source to follow is the initial question every Christian needs to answer, because If you don’t use the correct source of authority, you may not get the fullness of the truth that Christ wants you to have to live your spiritual life to the fullest.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Christ would have established a way for us to know with absolute certainty exactly what he taught 2000 years ago? Wouldn't it be wonderful in the event of a disagreement in our faith that we have a way to decisively resolve a dispute?
He Did
Let us see how Jesus established his church.
During the times Jesus walked on the earth, to who would you go to in order to get the fullness of the truth?
Jesus!
We know Jesus rose from the dead. We know that he ascended into heaven. And that he did many miracles.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6)
Jesus the ultimate source of authority:
But there's one problem…
Unfortunately for us, we can't go to Jesus Physically to ask him about matters of faith anymore. He died and Resurrected, afterwards he ascended into heaven. So after Jesus ascended, to who could a person go to in order to obtain the truth?
The question to ask is did Jesus established a way for others to speak for him in matters of defining the faith? Who did Christ select to teach everything he wanted humanity to know about himself and salvation?
The apostles:
Jesus chose 12 apostles and he taught them everything he knew so they could teach humanity the truth. This is called divine revelation. The deposit of Faith.
And toward the end he gave the apostles the authority to speak on his behalf. Let us check some parts of the scripture that lets us know how Jesus gave them authority.
Matthew 10:1
"Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.“
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3894742754_6cd957df8a.jpg
John 20:23
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Jesus said to the apostles:
Matthew 18:18
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
In the great comission, Jesus gave the apostles the authority to go and teach what he had taught them to the gentiles.
Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
“….As the Father has sent me, I am sending you…” John 20:23
So basically,
Just as the Father sent the Son (And they are One), Jesus sent his apostles giving them authority.
As you can see he gave the apostles authority collectively. However, he gave the leadership to one of them.
Peter
There is ample evidence in the New Testament that Peter was first in authority among the apostles. Whenever they were named, Peter headed the list (Matt. 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13)
Sometimes the apostles were referred to as "Peter and those who were with him" (Luke 9:32). Peter was the one who generally spoke for the apostles (Matt. 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69), and he figured in many of the most dramatic scenes (Matt. 14:28-32, Matt. 17:24-27, Mark 10:23-28).
On Pentecost it was Peter who first preached to the crowds (Acts 2:14-40), and he worked the first healing in the Church age (Acts 3:6-7).
It is Peter’s faith that will strengthen his brethren (Luke 22:32) and Peter is given Christ’s flock to shepherd (John 21:17)
An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34). He headed the meeting that elected Matthias to replace Judas (Acts 1:13-26), and he received the first converts (Acts 2:41).
Immediately before his denials were predicted, Peter was told, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again [after the denials], strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32). It was Peter who Christ prayed would have faith that would not fail and that would be a guide for the others; and his prayer, being perfectly efficacious, was sure to be fulfilled.
Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.
Peter alone was promised something else also: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 16:19). In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. A walled city might have one great gate; and that gate had one great lock, worked by one great key. To be given the key to the city—an honor that exists even today, though its import is lost—meant to be given free access to and authority over the city. The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18).
When he first saw Simon, "Jesus looked at him, and said, ‘So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter)’" (John 1:42). The word Cephas is merely the transliteration of the Aramaic Kepha into Greek. Later, after Peter and the other disciples had been with Christ for some time, they went to Caesarea Philippi, where Peter made his profession of faith: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16:16). Jesus told him that this truth was specially revealed to him, and then he solemnly reiterated: "And I tell you, you are Peter" (Matt. 16:18). To this was added the promise that the Church would be founded, in some way, on Peter (Matt. 16:18).
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
(Matt. 16:18).
Key point:
How did the early church functioned?
It functioned with a leader.
All apostles were given the authority by Jesus, but one of them was given the lead (Peter).
What promise did Jesus gave to the apostles so they would be protected to only speak the truth?
That they would be guided by the holy spirit to teach the truth.
John 14:26. “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
John 16:13 “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”
So then we can be sure that the apostles had the authority to teach and to baptize etc
And we can be sure that they taught the truth, and the truth only.
But there's one problem….
The apostles were human…. They were physically going to die. So who could a person go to in order to obtain the truth after the apostles died? What happened after the apostles were gone? To whom did the authority to teach pass? Was it open to anyone who knew Scripture or had a teaching credential or a theology degree? How were later Christians to determine who was teaching the fullness of the truth?
The question is….
Did Christ established a way for their authority to be transferred to others? Let's see what the bible tell us.
Originally there were 12 apostles. When Jesus ascended into heaven, there were 11 of them. Judas was missing. So what did the apostles do before they went to teach and baptize to make disciples of all nations? What was their first activity as a collective group?
They selected a successor for Judas. Acts 1:20
Peter said “Let someone else take his office”. The word “office” signifies that Judasʹ position was an ongoing position rather than a one time position.
Acts 1:23-26
"So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles."
Acts 6
Refers to the apostles as the “Twelve”, indicating that indeed Matthias was considered one of the 12, therefore succeding Judas.
Scripture indicates that the apostles endowed bishops and elders with their special authority to teach. We see the earliest evidence of the apostles conferring authority in the account of the appointing of Judas’s replacement.
After Matthias had been chosen, the apostles went on to appoint others:
"And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed" (Acts 14:23).
In Acts 14:23
Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.
The blessed apostles gave the Authority to other entrusted men to teach what Jesus taught.
Jesus established a church in which apostolic authority is passed on.
All of those appointed by the apostles to be Bishops (such as Titus or Timothy), Priests (also known as "presbyters" or "elders" 1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15) and Deacons (Acts 6:1–6) had to receive “The Laying On of Hands”. This was made so that the person ordained receives the Holy Spirit and the authority to teach what Jesus taught, since the Holy Spirit guides any into the truth.
The apostles received the Holy Spirit in Pentecost (Acts 2)
And since the Holy Spirit guides one to teach the truth, we can be sure that they taught the truth.
In scripture we find that Paul also is given the Holy Spirit trough the Laying On of Hands.
So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Acts 9:17)
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:2-3)
Timothy also received the Holy Spirit through the hands of Paul.
“For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.”
2 Tim. 1:6
Paul’s writings provide early evidence that at least some of those appointed by the apostles had authority to go on and appoint still others. To Timothy he wrote, "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). And to Titus, "This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you" (Ti. 1:5).
Paul received apostolic authority, Timothy and Titus received it as well. And for sure all of those appointed by Titus and Timothy got Apostolic authority.
In his first letter to Timothy, a bishop—in which Paul calls the Church "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)—he instructs him:
"Till I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you. Practice these duties, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers" (1 Tim. 4:13–16)
The apostles did “The Laying On of Hands” as well on those who were ordained.
Acts 6:2-6 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.
So we find in scripture that Jesus established a church (and gave it Authority) for us to go to it and get the truth. His church had a leader (Peter being the first), his church had successors (Acts 1) and ordained others and gave them the Holy Spirit trough the “Laying On of Hands” (Acts 6) to help spreading the gospel. Those as well did it on others and so on.
Key:
If a church doesn't use a laying on of hands and if the line of authority for ordination doesn't come directly from the apostles it can't be the true Church.
The same is found in the Old Testament. For example when Moses Laid his hands on Joshua.
Numbers 27:18-23
So the LORD said to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership, and lay your hand on him. Have him stand before Eleazar the priest and the entire assembly and commission him in their presence. Give him some of your authority so the whole Israelite community will obey him. He is to stand before Eleazar the priest, who will obtain decisions for him by inquiring of the Urim before the LORD. At his command he and the entire community of the Israelites will go out, and at his command they will come in.”
Moses did as the LORD commanded him. He took Joshua and had him stand before Eleazar the priest and the whole assembly. Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the LORD instructed through Moses.
Deuteronomy 34:9
"Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses."
Some people in the present day will come to you claiming that they have the Holy spirit. But this should be put in doubt, if they didn't receive the Holy Spirit trough the laying on of hands. It is a gift that many would like to have indeed….
Acts 8:18-24
When Simon [the Sorcerer] saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
When the apostles went and preached the good news was there any bible?
Of course not. Then how did they preached the good news? They did it Orally.
There was no new testament written for several years after Christ ascended into heaven. There was no bible.
And the apostles went out and verbally proclaimed the deposit of faith. And that spoken word of God is called oral or apostolic tradition.
Since this method was used to teach the truth, this transmission of the Word of God in the verbal form was Authoritative.
After the church began to grow because of the spread of oral tradition, the bible tells us that there were some heresies out there. So how did the early church deal with heresy?
The church Jesus established had the authority to define matters of faith. Since the leaders of the church Jesus established have the Holy Spirit, when defining matters of faith they will be accurate and teach nothing else but the truth. In Acts 15 we see that there are some heresies out there teaching that “One cannot be saved unless circumcised”. So what does the church do? They get together and deal with this issue. Let us read Acts 15 The Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:1-4:
Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Acts 15:5-11
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Acts 15:12-18
The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things—
things known from long ago.’
Acts 15:19-21:
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
So as u can see the leaders of the visible church got together to define matters of faith. Even to this day this is possible in the Catholic Church. In Acts 15 not only the apostles got together, but the whole church leaders.
After that they sent a letter to Gentile believers
Acts 15:22
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers.
Acts 15:23-29
With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
From this we can conclude that the church had (and still has) Authority. In Acts 15 the church clearly defines matters of faith with her authority, which is given by the Lord Jesus himself.
Many years later the church got together under the authority of Pope Damasus I (Council of Rome 382) and formally canonized the bible. It was the Authoritative church, using Authoritative tradition, that gave us the Authoritative bible.
The church leaders have the Holy Spirit passed on through the Laying of hands, they have the protection and guidance of the holy spirit to teach the truth, they have apostolic succession and they have authoritative sources.
The Authoritative church
uses the Authoritative
1- Oral or Apostolic tradition
and the Authoritative
2- Bible
And those are the sources of authority that the Catholic church uses and has been using these sources of authority from then on, and as a result of that the Catholic church has never changed a core belief in the 2000 years of history using these sources of authority.
From all of this we can conclude that the church was (and still is) visible
Apparently MOST Protestants don’t realize the very paradox that they are arguing against. On one hand, they reject any single visible church with as holding all authority, but on the other, they themselves site the early Church (i.e. Ephesian elders), formed through apostolic succession, as an authoritative body. According to them, apostolic succession seems to count only during the time that the apostles walked on earth, and after that, no church had the keys???
Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him (or his teachings). His Church will survive until his return.
We as Catholics don't believe that people can just assume for themselves the right of ecclesiastic ordination (unlike protestants). We believe this happens trough the passing on…through apostolic succession. We believe it happens through being sent out. You are not just called (to priesthood), you are also sent. And this happens through a valid authority. There are no writings in the bible that suggest that one can by himself assume ecclesiastic ordination.
No one can give himself the mandate and the mission to proclaim the gospel. The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority but by virtue of Christ’s authority; not as a member of the community but speaking to it in the name of Christ. No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ.
In the bible it works this way:
Jesus was sent by the father, Jesus sent the apostles, the apostles sent Paul, Paul sent Timothy, Paul commanded Timothy to appoint others…and so on. And the early church affirms the right same thing. That was one of the means that the early church had to know who had the right firm authority and who did not.
In the Catholic church, all priests are ordained by somebody, who was ordained by somebody, who was ordained by somebody (and so on) who was ordained by an apostle.
This is true Authority. This is Apostolic Succession. This is why the Catholic Church does indeed have the Holy Spirit guiding her.
This is the Divine Authority the Catholic Church has.
"From what has been said, then, it seems clear to me that the true Church, that which is really ancient, is one. . . . We say, therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin, and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone" (Stromata 7:17: 107:3-5 [A.D. 207]).
-Clement of Alexandria
"I believe in God Almighty, and in his only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit, and in the resurrection of the body, [and] the holy Catholic Church" (Der-Balyzeh papyrus [A.D. 200-250]).
Ancient Egyptian Creed
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Yazata
Valued Senior Member
Why should people all agree to be monotheists?
Do we really know that the world, the universe or whatever was created at all? (Whatever the word 'created' is supposed to mean.) If, for the sake of argument it was, do we really know that there was just one hypothetical creator that did it, and not a whole bunch of them? (Maybe it as originally a team project and additional 'creators' have been tweaking and adjusting it ever since.) And how do we know that these hypothetical creator(s) is/are appropriate objects for human religious worship and devotion? Why should we think that they have anything to do with morality or with salvation?
I don't understand how everyone's somehow agreeing to become monotheists would accomplish very much towards making "Buddha or Confucius, Jesus and others" consistent and harmonious.
The historical Buddha, Confucius and Jesus all seem to have very different presumptions, purposes, practices and goals in mind. Even if somehow we all agreed to believe in one single supernatural creator, these three teachers would still represent three very different religious paths.
Yeah... Following the words of one person is religious ignorance. Especially since there are so many who respect the words of all great religious teachers.
The historical Buddha, Confucius and Jesus all seem to have very different presumptions, purposes, practices and goals in mind. Even if somehow we all agreed to believe in one single supernatural creator, these three teachers would still represent three very different religious paths.[/QUOTE]
The path my be different but the objective my be similar . U would venture to say the objective is to have peace among us human
The path my be different but the objective my be similar . U would venture to say the objective is to have peace among us human
kx000
Valued Senior Member
The objective is to spread peace and love until Heaven is literally brought down upon Earth.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
We treat celebrities like god's. period. It makes me sick. First we pay them millions upon millions of dollars for the mediocre talent, and they do little for the betterment of man. Then we put them on T.V. and pay them millions more to use their image to persuade us to buy another useless piece of technology.
What truth? The truth about the lies that the civilized world has alway believed.
Nope. But try reading my post.
I want evidence to support your claim:
And that "truth" would be... what, exactly?
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Look at the pictures. We praise people for writing songs, or being beautiful (Kim Kardashian... Roman goddess Aphrodite), then we give them all our money so they can be more famous. The truth about the lies. Figure it out.
So you get off on porno flicks?