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Why do theists associate with non-theists?
- Thread starter wynn
- Start date
Gandalf -
You are the poster who has made it to my ignore list in the shortest time.
I will not tolerate your patronizing.
Am I on you shit list ?
Gandalf -
You are the poster who has made it to my ignore list in the shortest time.
I will not tolerate your patronizing.
Signal, I didn't mean to patronize. It's just the last time I began an innocent discussion in "real life" about overpopulation and all the baggage that comes with it, it ended with people screaming I was some sort of Social Darwinist (which I'm not).
Not fun. The topic can be a virtual landmind. It wasn't my intent to patronize. I'm sorry if I came across that way. I just wanted to hear you opinions.
@Signal --
It wasn't a false dichotomy, I was comparing and contrasting two of the options with the goal of reducing human suffering in mind. I never said that religion and secular humanism were the only options, just that secular humanism is the best option we currently have available based on the evidence of history.
It wasn't a false dichotomy, I was comparing and contrasting two of the options with the goal of reducing human suffering in mind. I never said that religion and secular humanism were the only options, just that secular humanism is the best option we currently have available based on the evidence of history.
It wasn't a false dichotomy, I was comparing and contrasting two of the options with the goal of reducing human suffering in mind. I never said that religion and secular humanism were the only options, just that secular humanism is the best option we currently have available based on the evidence of history.
Then you haven't presented the complete argument as you intended it.
Imagine the 'scientific' research necessary to determine whether secular humanism reduces human suffering better than religions do. You have to figure out control groups, somehow, for the past, ways of separating out correlation from cause and so on. Mentioning some bad stuff done in the name of religion proves very little. 1) we don't know if people simply would have found other excuses and 2) secular society seems quite capable of horrible crimes.@Signal --
Really? Helping those in need and moving to obliterate bigotry aren't helping to reduce human suffering? Gosh, what could I be thinking? It's a really good thing you're here to fix such a grave error in my reasoning.
You're right though, it's so clear to me now that secular humanism is about the worst possible thing for human suffering, that religion is demonstrably the better choice. It's obvious to me now that being stoned to death for witchcraft, or heresy, or going outside without completely covering your body(as it still to this day in some muslim countries), cause less suffering than malnutrition and overcrowding do.
History is very tricky to use. Most humans were religious through most of history. Determining what caused certain behavior is not easy at all. I suppose if I mention communist nations and the crimes against humans, communism will be seen as a non-theist religion. Well, I suspect that the neo-cons, yet another secular religion will manage to whip the US into some other wars - I give them mass killing in both Vietnam and Iraq - manipulate the economies and governments of third world countries regardless of the effects on the population, and perhaps even recklessly develop some technology -(nanotech, biowarfare, GM related) - that kills everyone on earth, because the safety of humans is so much less important that immediate profits. I am sorry but it is, at the very least, way too early to know what 'secular' societies are capable of, especially if communist nations do not count. It would be bad science to speak with certainty on this issue.secular humanism is the best option we currently have available based on the evidence of history
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Originally Posted by Adstar
If it was made clear that the friendship was not a statement of support for their friends prostitution practices then other Christians would have no right to look down on another Christian for befriending a prostitute.
No, that is not Christlike at all. Why is the onus on Jesus or anyone else to explain to potential judgers what his/their friendship means or does not mean? You seem to want a contract or justifications to not judge.
Where did i say in the above quote that one needed to make it clear to other people that your friendship with a prostitute was not a sign of support for prostitution? No i never said anything about others, That’s what you injected into my statement.
The one who needs to know that your friendship is not a sign of support for prostitution is your friend the prostitute.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Originally Posted by Adstar
Yes He will judge. He will separate the rightious from the wicked. He will
That does not justify anyone else doing it. Jesus is justified to do it. Not His followers.
You are doing it ...
Nope, i have never stoned you, never thrown you in prison, never beaten you with a rod, never carried out any judgement upon you in the years i have been on this forum.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Sigh.....see the bold below.Where did i say in the above quote that one needed to make it clear to other people that your friendship with a prostitute was not a sign of support for prostitution? No i never said anything about others, That’s what you injected into my statement.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Originally Posted by Pineal
“
Originally Posted by Adstar
If it was made clear that the friendship was not a statement of support for their friends prostitution practices then other Christians would have no right to look down on another Christian for befriending a prostitute.
”
No, that is not Christlike at all. Why is the onus on Jesus or anyone else to explain to potential judgers what his/their friendship means or does not mean? You seem to want a contract or justifications to not judge.
I directly responded to precisely what you said. Your statement makes it clear that the person needs to make it clear their friendship is not a support for prostitution and only then should then not be judged by other Christians.
Please read what you write.
Are you truly unaware of one of the main meanings of the word 'judge'?Nope, i have never stoned you, never thrown you in prison, never beaten you with a rod, never carried out any judgement upon you in the years i have been on this forum.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days