The point is not whether it gives meaning to me, the point is that it attempts to answer the questions that science cannot answer.
Why do so many people believe in God.
- Thread starter mustafhakofi
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Yes, but how can it ever do that? That is the thing that drives me nuts. How can religion claim to be able to answer ANYTHING? Ever? It's pure mysticism! There are no tests, no investigation, no... Nothing!
That's not the point! The point is that as long as science cannot explain everything that needs to be explained, then religion will always have a place! Because believing something is better then not having something to believe in!!!
TruthSeeker said:
That makes religion a substitute for truth and destroys the type of thinking that makes science succesful.
IMO, 'belief' should be held in the same negative light as a derogatory word.
Oh my. That I completely disagree with. If you can't come up with a reasonable natural explanation for something, why not just say "I don't know"? It's embarrassing to say that in front of your friends in class, but in the real world, it's ok. Why postulate all kinds of rediculous things that can't even be explored? I don't "believe" in anything regarding the universe external to me, without at least some solid evidence and proof. It dosen't bother me in the least. In fact, I think it makes things far more interesting to say "I don't know" with the hope of actual discovery, than saying "God did it" and shutting my brain down. Don't you?
Crunchy Cat,
Belief = @#$%^#$
Right?
Belief = @#$%^#$
Right?
I'm pointing out the perspective of many people.superluminal said:
I'm more complex then the question can answer.
superluminal said:
Now that's an identity baby!
That may well be. But postulating a god or gods as an answer (which isn't really needed) is rather pointless, eh? The question alone begs investigation and therin lies all the fun!
Where do you draw the line Dalahar?
Upon reflection an honest man must realise that saying "I don't know" to everything isn't really a suitable way of doing things. Ok, I also appreciate that technically speaking - no, I do not know if a leprechaun exists. They might, just like a flying purple orang utan might exist, but going through life in this manner just isn't viable, and you know it.
There is fiction and there is reality. Science attempts to explain what is real, although certainly their explanations of the processes aren't always completely accurate, but regardless to that they pay attention to what is real vs something that somebody claims is real.
It's how we all do things as humans, including you. It's probable to state that you have no belief whatsoever in Zeus, Tiamat, Abellio, Apollo, Quetzecotl, and the thousands of other gods whos existences have been claimed - which in actuality means you have now answered the question you asked to Superliminal all by yourself.
Now.. extend that by 1 and you'll realise why people say your god doesn't exist. It's no different to what you do or say, but just one extra claimed being.
All of these things: gods, vampires, werewolves, mermaids, leprechauns and so on live on the "fiction" shelf. Once there is ample evidence to suggest existence they can then move.
Several thousand years have passed and all that you have is a dusty old book, written by ancient shepherds who thought the world was a pancake. That speaks volumes.
Upon reflection an honest man must realise that saying "I don't know" to everything isn't really a suitable way of doing things. Ok, I also appreciate that technically speaking - no, I do not know if a leprechaun exists. They might, just like a flying purple orang utan might exist, but going through life in this manner just isn't viable, and you know it.
There is fiction and there is reality. Science attempts to explain what is real, although certainly their explanations of the processes aren't always completely accurate, but regardless to that they pay attention to what is real vs something that somebody claims is real.
It's how we all do things as humans, including you. It's probable to state that you have no belief whatsoever in Zeus, Tiamat, Abellio, Apollo, Quetzecotl, and the thousands of other gods whos existences have been claimed - which in actuality means you have now answered the question you asked to Superliminal all by yourself.
Now.. extend that by 1 and you'll realise why people say your god doesn't exist. It's no different to what you do or say, but just one extra claimed being.
All of these things: gods, vampires, werewolves, mermaids, leprechauns and so on live on the "fiction" shelf. Once there is ample evidence to suggest existence they can then move.
Several thousand years have passed and all that you have is a dusty old book, written by ancient shepherds who thought the world was a pancake. That speaks volumes.
why do so many people believe in god? because it is an easy solution that fulfills most your needs in on go. moral guidance, assurance of continued existance, importance and purpose, it explains what we can't understand by giving a solution that is designed not to be understandable...
MY opinion of God
think my "god" is similar to the god of religious people...
i have faith in energy, something we can't hold or see, but we assume it's there by things that happen because of it.
Energy created the universe, energy is everywhere, energy is allpowerful.
The only decernable difference, is that energy doesn't favour a human over a blade of grass...we are what we are, by accident.
volcanoes explode because energy makes them, it doesn't care about human lives, it cares about nothing, it simply exists.
we are simply a load of decisions of yes and no, on and off that create a complex object, like a computer.
But we are more than that? we have a soul?
or is it simply that the difference between the complexity of the decisions in a computer and a human, is an extra 5million years of evolution.
may seem a very bleak outlook on life, that we are the way we are, so survive, and reproduce. True it's nice to have some fun in the mean time, but after death, we are no more. As a species we can try to exist for as long as possible before the energy of the sun consumes us all.
god and energy are one and the same. "god" supposedly planned our existance, and judges us...
but religious scriptures were written by humans...we simply included the whole "planning" and "judging" to make everything seem more important as far as WE are concerned...
though that doesn't mean it is so, like earth being the centre of the universe, it's merely a comfort blanket that takes a long time to grow out of.
lots of atheists say that if god is all loving, then why would he make humans so "fire and forget".
but what if we are not what he was creating, he was creating a universe, that he loves...part of the survival of the universe, are all the natural processes of planets releasing pressure in volcanoes and earthquakes etc.
we are simply on the sideline of gods greatest creation...we just think we are more important than we actually are.
i just think that we are a little arrogant to think that "god", actually favours us over other animals/plants/rocks etc.
my mate was saying how, it's because we are closer to him, and we are a lot more advanced compared to other species...
but if you think about a scale in terms of of special you are...we are so far from god, that we are exactly the same as a lump of granite.
|12_3_________.......INVINITE SPACE ON THE SCALE......._________GOD|
rocks may be 1, plants 2, and humans 3, but when the scale is so skewed, everything at one end will just get grouped together. we may be 1x10^3 times more special than a rock, but if god is 1x10^3000000000 times more special than us, then rocks and humans are only 1x10^-2999999995% different from rocks compared to god. (a very small percentage)
so in terms of gods eyes, we are an almost infinitely small speck at the VERY bottom of the special scale...
MY opinion of God
think my "god" is similar to the god of religious people...
i have faith in energy, something we can't hold or see, but we assume it's there by things that happen because of it.
Energy created the universe, energy is everywhere, energy is allpowerful.
The only decernable difference, is that energy doesn't favour a human over a blade of grass...we are what we are, by accident.
volcanoes explode because energy makes them, it doesn't care about human lives, it cares about nothing, it simply exists.
we are simply a load of decisions of yes and no, on and off that create a complex object, like a computer.
But we are more than that? we have a soul?
or is it simply that the difference between the complexity of the decisions in a computer and a human, is an extra 5million years of evolution.
may seem a very bleak outlook on life, that we are the way we are, so survive, and reproduce. True it's nice to have some fun in the mean time, but after death, we are no more. As a species we can try to exist for as long as possible before the energy of the sun consumes us all.
god and energy are one and the same. "god" supposedly planned our existance, and judges us...
but religious scriptures were written by humans...we simply included the whole "planning" and "judging" to make everything seem more important as far as WE are concerned...
though that doesn't mean it is so, like earth being the centre of the universe, it's merely a comfort blanket that takes a long time to grow out of.
lots of atheists say that if god is all loving, then why would he make humans so "fire and forget".
but what if we are not what he was creating, he was creating a universe, that he loves...part of the survival of the universe, are all the natural processes of planets releasing pressure in volcanoes and earthquakes etc.
we are simply on the sideline of gods greatest creation...we just think we are more important than we actually are.
i just think that we are a little arrogant to think that "god", actually favours us over other animals/plants/rocks etc.
my mate was saying how, it's because we are closer to him, and we are a lot more advanced compared to other species...
but if you think about a scale in terms of of special you are...we are so far from god, that we are exactly the same as a lump of granite.
|12_3_________.......INVINITE SPACE ON THE SCALE......._________GOD|
rocks may be 1, plants 2, and humans 3, but when the scale is so skewed, everything at one end will just get grouped together. we may be 1x10^3 times more special than a rock, but if god is 1x10^3000000000 times more special than us, then rocks and humans are only 1x10^-2999999995% different from rocks compared to god. (a very small percentage)
so in terms of gods eyes, we are an almost infinitely small speck at the VERY bottom of the special scale...
God does not exist, it's a contradiction.
Example:
What, then, of the possibility of God?
On the one hand, the concept of a God includes the idea that God is consciously aware. But awareness is necessarily awareness of something, and therefore information identifying that of which one is aware is indispensable for consciousness. On the other hand, the concept of a God includes the ability to exist independently of matter or energy, and at the same time, to exist throughout space and across time. But to get information through space or time requires matter or energy. This is a contradiction, and contradictions do not exist. It is simply not possible for the same entity to be conscious and, simultaneously, independent of matter and energy, because information cannot exist except as attributes of entities composed of energy and matter. Our current knowledge makes the assumption of existence of a God or Gods not merely unnecessary—as in the "soft atheism" of Laplace and Rand—but untenable.
"Soft atheism," then, in view of the new knowledge acquired since the time when Ayn Rand wrote on the subject, is obsolete. We humans now know, in the same sense in which we know anything at all, that an entity with the attributes traditionally ascribed to a God cannot exist in reality. Thanks in part to Ayn Rand's epistemology, current knowledge of the relation of mattergy to information implies "hard atheism"—the positive knowledge that an entity with the attributes traditionally ascribed to a God or Gods cannot exist.
link ref.
And furthermore the nuts who claimed in the bilble to have spoken to god, were probably schizophrenics, this mental desease was widespread during those times.
Ref.
Thus here we have it, 2000 years of believing in schizos, and making nuts of todays youth, and war mongering idiots. For failed myths, that lead only to the human failure, and back to the dark ages.
Godless
Example:
What, then, of the possibility of God?
On the one hand, the concept of a God includes the idea that God is consciously aware. But awareness is necessarily awareness of something, and therefore information identifying that of which one is aware is indispensable for consciousness. On the other hand, the concept of a God includes the ability to exist independently of matter or energy, and at the same time, to exist throughout space and across time. But to get information through space or time requires matter or energy. This is a contradiction, and contradictions do not exist. It is simply not possible for the same entity to be conscious and, simultaneously, independent of matter and energy, because information cannot exist except as attributes of entities composed of energy and matter. Our current knowledge makes the assumption of existence of a God or Gods not merely unnecessary—as in the "soft atheism" of Laplace and Rand—but untenable.
"Soft atheism," then, in view of the new knowledge acquired since the time when Ayn Rand wrote on the subject, is obsolete. We humans now know, in the same sense in which we know anything at all, that an entity with the attributes traditionally ascribed to a God cannot exist in reality. Thanks in part to Ayn Rand's epistemology, current knowledge of the relation of mattergy to information implies "hard atheism"—the positive knowledge that an entity with the attributes traditionally ascribed to a God or Gods cannot exist.
link ref.
And furthermore the nuts who claimed in the bilble to have spoken to god, were probably schizophrenics, this mental desease was widespread during those times.
Ref.
Thus here we have it, 2000 years of believing in schizos, and making nuts of todays youth, and war mongering idiots. For failed myths, that lead only to the human failure, and back to the dark ages.
Godless
In order for an existent to exist, it must poses "Identity" in order for an existent to poses an identity it must poses matter-such as a body-and energy-such as a life force. What matter, or life force do you ascribe to an entity with the postulates of a god?. It's contradictory to metaphisics. An entity has to poses matter and energy, none of these are found in your god!.
She can't explain didly to you, she's dead. But logic and reason "if you had any" can explain it to you. Thus you have to search through "reason" the bitter enemy of faith, to explain a god, and you can't!.
You really need to read your history. The profound effects of organized religion in the world has been an evil entity of the world, it has created wars, biggots, crusades, witch burnings, inquisitions, etc.
The age of ingnorance! when biggoted right wing assholes try and put creationism in science classes, instead of real science evolution, it's the beggining of turning back to the dark ages.
Godless
Yes! But that's not the point! The point is that the question was "why do people do that" and I answered it. It's not like I'm expressing my opinion! LOL!superluminal said:
It's a fallacy to say God doesn't exist when you cannot possibly have a proof of that fact. You can have evidence for the existance of God, but you cannot have evidence for His abscence, because there is no way of proving that something is not somewhere, since it could be somewhere else! It's like saying that just because a tribe in the middle of the Amazon cannot perceive radio signals, radio signals don't exist. It might exist for us, but not for them, because they cannot detect it.
BS.
The only spirit of god, is in your imagination. There's no evidence of mythical spirits.
You contradict yourself, and your too ingnorant to even figure out how!.
You should study psychology, and find out the profound effects of believing in bull shit, many schizophrenics are hardent mystical people who believe fully in the bible, god, spirits, ghosts, etc..
We got were we are because of the Reinesance, an assult on theology, and science prevailed, while the mystical jackass of the time still believed the earth was flat!.
Godless
Y
Yorda_7
Guest
Godless said:
Do you know what a spirit is?
Maybe because they see them...
We got were we are because of the Reinesance, an assult on theology, and science prevailed, while the mystical jackass of the time still believed the earth was flat!.
The Bible doesn't mention whether our planet is flat or not, the people just misunderstood the Bible...
There you go, issue solved. It really is that simple.
I didn't say "can not", I said "until such time where there is credible evidence to suggest that he/she/it does, by default he/she/it does not".
A vampire does not, by default, exist. I could very well be wrong. There could be long toothed, sunlight sensitive cloaked dudes flying around London eating virgins and Brad Pitt. I cannot in any way prove their non-existence.
The reality of the situation has to be, from a position of honesty as explained before, that they are considered fiction until such time where there is evidence to suggest otherwise. Normally this wouldn't take so long.. You have had several thousand years. Get a move on.
Sure...
So why espouse it?
Why preach it?
Why accept the opinion of an unknown shepherd from several thousand years ago?
Why tell me the way to be saved, when all you really mean is that you dam well hope it's true otherwise you're going to rot and never ever see those loved ones of yours ever again?
Yes man, I love my wife, I love my daughter. The very notion of being without them is unbearable. That does not in any way give credence to the existence of sky beings, (or leprechauns for that matter), no matter how desirable it might sound.
No, what I am saying is that until such time where there is evidence to suggest existence of this supposed being that ancient halfwits wrote about - there is no justifcation to assign it as truth, and indeed it has to, as a matter of course, remain on the fiction pile along with dragons, elves and ogre lords.
The idea is nowhere near impossible. Sure, I can envision a small, pointy eared dude that lives in the forest - but such idea does not qualify or justify belief in elves. A bow of Elrond and some elven dust might justify belief in elves, but otherwise any belief in elves must remain as fantasy, as fiction.
Would you consider me justified to label you as 'daydreaming' if you stated the same sentence but used "Lenny the leprechaun" in place of the word god?
Now, if you can, provide a substantial difference between the two.
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